Hunting Washington Forum
Other Hunting => Waterfowl => Topic started by: WSU on March 19, 2010, 09:32:56 AM
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I had an experience last year that really got me thinking. I had just had some geese come take a look at my spread, but not commit. I then forgot to take the BBB's out of my gun, and had a flock of ducks come it. I killed three birds, all stone dead when they hit the ground. It seems that often you won't kill 3 birds stone dead, if for no other reason that by the third it is getting a little far and you are most likely shooting them in the ass as they head out of town (vital areas not exposed). Sure, the holes in the bird were a little bigger, but really not much different than normal. It made me think, why doesn't everyone shoot big shot sizes for ducks, such as BB or BBB?
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Less pellets, which equals less coverage would be my number 1 reason.
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I'm not so sure that's entirely accurate. I shoot an IM carlsons, and my pattern seems very tight and dense. Each bird had multiple pellets in it. In fact, one goose had about 6 in its head at about 25 yards. Isn't the theory that the big pellets group tighter, giving a smaller pattern? Maybe if you want a bigger pattern that has the same density? I'm just not sure the conventional wisdom is correct. Has anyone patterned them to see?
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I'm not so sure that's entirely accurate. I shoot an IM carlsons, and my pattern seems very tight and dense. Each bird had multiple pellets in it. In fact, one goose had about 6 in its head at about 25 yards. Isn't the theory that the big pellets group tighter, giving a smaller pattern? Maybe if you want a bigger pattern that has the same density? I'm just not sure the conventional wisdom is correct. Has anyone patterned them to see?
As the shot travels farther out it spreads out more. The more pellets there are, the more holes in that spread out field that are covered. Why do you think people use 6's to swat birds on the water and not 3-1/2" T's. I've tried both and every time the 6's out preformed the T's due to sheer pellet amount.
I use 2's all around, good speed, good amount of pellets, plenty of knockdown power. I have killed birds up to 75 yards with them (I do not shoot at that range regularly).
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The shot size debate has been going on forever. Some guys like lots of small shot for heavy pattern density,and other guys like fewer larger shot.
I like the larger shot sizes myself. For ducks, I've never used smaller than #2,and the last few years the smallest I've used is BB.
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I'm not so sure that's entirely accurate. I shoot an IM carlsons, and my pattern seems very tight and dense. Each bird had multiple pellets in it. In fact, one goose had about 6 in its head at about 25 yards. Isn't the theory that the big pellets group tighter, giving a smaller pattern? Maybe if you want a bigger pattern that has the same density? I'm just not sure the conventional wisdom is correct. Has anyone patterned them to see?
Maybe you misunderstood me, or I worded it wrong. With larger shot size size, there is less pellets. With lesser pellets, 'generally' your pattern isn't as spread out. When I hunt ducks, I would rather have a larger coverage area than a tighter pattern. I have before loaded my gun with the 3rd shot being BB's for a longer going away shot.
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I'm not so sure that's entirely accurate. I shoot an IM carlsons, and my pattern seems very tight and dense. Each bird had multiple pellets in it. In fact, one goose had about 6 in its head at about 25 yards. Isn't the theory that the big pellets group tighter, giving a smaller pattern? Maybe if you want a bigger pattern that has the same density? I'm just not sure the conventional wisdom is correct. Has anyone patterned them to see?
As the shot travels farther out it spreads out more. The more pellets there are, the more holes in that spread out field that are covered. Why do you think people use 6's to swat birds on the water and not 3-1/2" T's. I've tried both and every time the 6's out preformed the T's due to sheer pellet amount.
I use 2's all around, good speed, good amount of pellets, plenty of knockdown power. I have killed birds up to 75 yards with them (I do not shoot at that range regularly).
I completely understand that. The difference with swatting is that you are trying to hit the bird in the head. There, it is obvious that smaller shot is better. You don't need much energy, just a dense pattern. However, shooting birds flying is a different deal. 12 small pellets that don't penetrate enough is much less lethal than 1 that does penetrate. That was why I mentioned shooting when the vitals are not exposed.
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Maybe you misunderstood me, or I worded it wrong. With larger shot size size, there is less pellets. With lesser pellets, 'generally' your pattern isn't as spread out. When I hunt ducks, I would rather have a larger coverage area than a tighter pattern. I have before loaded my gun with the 3rd shot being BB's for a longer going away shot.
I think we are in agreement. We just have a different opinion. I may prefer a smaller but still dense pattern if that smaller pattern consists of more lethal pellets. I say "may" because this all seems to be up for debate and I have a very small test sample.
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pattern density.
smaller pellets=more pellets=thicker pattern density.
that or shoot the big shot and switch to 3.5" magnum=more pellets.
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I think we are in agreement. We just have a different opinion. I may prefer a smaller but still dense pattern if that smaller pattern consists of more lethal pellets. I say "may" because this all seems to be up for debate and I have a very small test sample.
Each application for the type of duck hunting I will be doing is different. I have a few ponds that we jump-shoot where the shots are usually at an extended range. For those applications, I use BB's. Other ponds however, when being pushed by a flusher, result in quick flying in-your-face type shooting which No 6's work super. I hear you on the more dense/less pellet idea though. You're probably just a better shot than me. :chuckle: I need coverage! :hunt2:
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I doubt that. I just hate shooting birds when you know you are hammering them, only to watch them fly off wounded. I'd rather just miss.
You do make a good point about different applications, as does teal above.
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I vote for pellet count vs pellet size. I know people who swear by really hot #6 smaller shot on geese over decoys. They shoot Mod choke and get a really thick pattern and it shuts the geese down every time..
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Larger wound channels with the bigger shot, but typically less hits. Granted it only take one good hit. In close it definately could have a more devestating outcome. If you have an open pattern, many more holes to miss birds, but also fewer pellets to remove from bird. I have shot ducks with F shot in the past, to bad they don't make it anymore. That was devestating on the geese. About 48 pellets per 3" shell.
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The best way to answer your question is to go out and pattern your gun. I personally don't shoot bigger than #3's at ducks because with my tight aftermarket choke tube it really seems to shoot those small shot sizes well. That being said, I am not trying to argue against the bigger shot. I know several people that swear by it. To each his own.
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I like to mix it up. I will shoot 4's at ducks that are decoying well or somtimes BB's when pass shooting. My go to shot size is 2's works well with my tight coke from my gun.
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softball.. use heaviest bat you can without it slowing down your batspeed.
duck hunting... use smallest shot you can without it leaving you with cripples you cant retrieve.
That's my mentality. I've killed a lot of birds with BB, but throwing huge pellets at smaller ducks tends to just destroy the meat, and definitely eliminates a trophy mount.
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I had the same experience having a 3 1/2 inch BB in the chamber I killed 3 teal with one passing shot. I think it all depends on choke and distance of the shot. I use #2's mainly for ducks and hardly ever have to chase down cripples.