Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: Dirty Mike on March 26, 2010, 06:09:58 AM

Title: lead vs. copper
Post by: Dirty Mike on March 26, 2010, 06:09:58 AM: i dont if im sold on the new copper bullets yet just dont think they mushroom enough at such slow speeds might go back to my dead centers what are your thoughts?
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: whacker1 on March 26, 2010, 06:42:44 AM: after recovering the Barnes Expander from the whitetail I shot, I won't go back to lead. Longer bullet that shoots better groups. Expansion was full and complete, with no loss of weight. The bullet expanded far better in the animal than it did in the test run when shooting into sand.

the only option I am now weighing is whether to shoot the 275 grain I shot this year or go to the 325 grain that is a little longer
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: Whitelightning on March 26, 2010, 07:21:48 AM: I am a beleiver in long conicals out of a Muzzy. I have never not had a lead conical NOT be a complete pass through with tremendous internal damage. I have seen and read of many jacketed bullets remaing within the animal and guy's having to put two bullets in the animal to drop it. I also agree that a longer projectile stabilizes faster and better out of a Muzzy and that makes the projectile heavier and typicaly will hold more energy down range. :twocents:
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: Dirty Mike on March 26, 2010, 08:04:48 AM: i was thinking of the barnez tmz any reports?
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: whacker1 on March 26, 2010, 08:07:45 AM: The expander MZ is the only bullet they make for the .54, so I can't speak to the other styles as my options were limited.
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: Dirty Mike on March 26, 2010, 08:11:22 AM: any reports on the tmz 290
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 27, 2010, 03:35:56 PM: yes that is what me and my cousin shot are bucks with this year with the tmz 290 they did very well and i we both shot the 340 dead centers for years and i still love those bullets. i think they are about equal, they did shoot well just about the same as my dead centers but of course a little flatter they worked great on the deer we shot and i think i will use them again this year. but i still love my dead centers and never had one problem with them on all the deer i have shot with them over the years. so my :twocents: is they are about equal. we did not shoot either of our bucks threw any solid bones just rips i am wondering what they will do at 100 yards on solid bone might open up a bit i have shot allot testing on wood jugs etc and they are great but not sure how great at 100 yards+ hope this helps ya
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 27, 2010, 03:38:55 PM: here is the link to my buck from this last year 09,and the story.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,39198.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,39198.0.html)
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: Dirty Mike on March 29, 2010, 12:37:28 PM: shot the sst yesterday grouped great but did not mushroom hardly at all with both bullets not happy at all
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: Hilltophustler on March 30, 2010, 03:10:49 PM: Just bought me a pack of Barnes TMZ 290 grain :o... Cant wait to shoot them and see how they do....might just have to get some milk jugs together and see what they look like...
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: Blsum on March 30, 2010, 03:59:49 PM: Quote from: Hilltophustler on March 30, 2010, 03:10:49 PM
Just bought me a pack of Barnes TMZ 290 grain :o... Cant wait to shoot them and see how they do....might just have to get some milk jugs together and see what they look like...

You dirt bag. Where did you get them from. That place up north. You know. I still have a bunch of milk jugs, and the video camera. When do you think you will be coming down next?
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: hirshey on March 30, 2010, 07:25:16 PM: TMZ has a beautiful mushroom. When I get back home tomorrow I'll take a photo of the two bullets pulled out of our animals this season.
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: hunter guy on March 30, 2010, 07:29:54 PM: Quote from: MasonCtyHitman on March 26, 2010, 06:09:58 AM
i dont if im sold on the new copper bullets yet just dont think they mushroom enough at such slow speeds might go back to my dead centers what are your thoughts?
I wish I would have taken pics of the entry hole on the deer I harvested this year at around twenty yards with the barnes 290 ballitic tip EZ loader. The entry hole was as big as the exit hole. Doubled lunged it and it ran about fifty yards. Blood was shooting out the entry hole like a sprinkler.

Here is a barnes 290 and a 300 xtp side by side and the before and after. The 290 barnes was shot with 100 grains loose and the 300 grain XTP was shot with 80 loose, both saboted out of a .50 cal muzzy.
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: Blsum on March 30, 2010, 11:27:46 PM: Here's the picture of the sst bullet from the test I did. I also posted a link to the video of the test.

http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,46720.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,46720.0.html)

Here is as close up of a picture I could take with my cell phone. Sorry for the quality. But you can see that the bullet mushroomed and basically just ripped the top half of the bullet off. I don't think that's quite what I want in a bullet.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi913.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fac337%2Fsumjb2%2FMobile%2520Uploads%2F0131001521_0001.jpg&hash=35712f40690a10ad790f87775857615010ca7506)

As soon as I have time I will take a picture of the Dead center bullet I recovered from my elk.

Quote from: hunter guy on March 30, 2010, 07:29:54 PM
Here is a barnes 290 and a 300 xtp side by side and the before and after. The 290 barnes was shot with 100 grains loose and the 300 grain XTP was shot with 80 loose, both saboted out of a .50 cal muzzy.

Hunter guy. What did you recover your bullet's out of? It almost looks like you shot them into sand or dirt of some sorts.
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: whacker1 on March 31, 2010, 06:17:04 AM: I don't think shooting the muzzleloader bullets through water jugs will get them to mushroom, because there isn't enough resistance or drag going through the water. I think if you want to replicate something closer to going through an animal, you would need balistics gel, or possibly try the poor mans version. stacks of cardboard or phone books I think would give you the result you are looking for.

The bullets I shot in the sand, did not mushroom well, but retained 100% of their weight. The ones I shot into the whitetail mushroomed perfectly and still retained 100% of their weight.
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: hunter guy on March 31, 2010, 07:37:56 AM: Hunter guy. What did you recover your bullet's out of? It almost looks like you shot them into sand or dirt of some sorts.
[/quote]
These were shot into dirt.
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: Dirty Mike on March 31, 2010, 12:29:16 PM: the sSt i pulled from a tree did not mushroom looked like the one from the milk jugs
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 31, 2010, 07:03:35 PM: i have always used milk jugs and they have worked for me. amoung other things 8)
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: Dirty Mike on March 31, 2010, 08:54:31 PM: milk jugs work great
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: shag on April 03, 2010, 08:05:35 AM: Get ya some phone books! I gather enough up to stack in a box with a 20" min length. just before leaving to go shoot I place them in a cooler and fill it up with water. Usually set two inches of book(s) in a cardboard box first, then I place a 3/4" piece of plywood and then the rest of the phone books into the box.. Like the plywood as it is sotra like hitting bone then continues through the books. The books will catch the bullet... You can also use reduced loads to get an idea how bullet will perform at lower velocitys(farther distance).

The 260rem and 6.5-284 usually penetrate close to 16 inches at 100yds. I'm into testing ammo for my 260 and -06 right now. But this summer I plan to test bullets for the muzzy.
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2010, 01:01:17 PM: Here's some field photos of copper bullets... this one was pulled from where the base of the skull meets the spine on my boyfriend's elk:

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe323%2Fhirshey27%2FDSC03131.jpg&hash=6b5e1895c7248e76c404117ae9d811c9166ec1df)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe323%2Fhirshey27%2FDSC03132.jpg&hash=38d067eac052c47e72012d59858f00a8fbac7f82)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe323%2Fhirshey27%2FDSC03133.jpg&hash=150d5696cef10a1a6151ebda8c18c9f482764921)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.ak.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ak-snc3%2Fhs017.snc3%2F12465_839233641998_10720117_47140918_7078716_n.jpg&hash=aa1bef7840fc65d9930de90eb178408a0087324c)
You can see that impacting the bone interfered with the mushroom shape.

Same bullet pulled from my elk: through-and-through behind the shoulder lodged in the leg bone on the off side (only bone it encountered)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe323%2Fhirshey27%2FDSC03129.jpg&hash=3dce366c580ad023ad75a58a135c758719f54691)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe323%2Fhirshey27%2FDSC03127.jpg&hash=375cb4d3db5647e922af068e17a6ffd1fab768c0)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi42.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fe323%2Fhirshey27%2FDSC03125.jpg&hash=c35b8f4912e8ed6e0d51fc20610e9fa9c0b7d781)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fhphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net%2Fhs017.snc3%2F12465_845390308988_10720117_47335197_2727624_n.jpg&hash=1df5328cd08b70f364ee18414c7ee9ffebbf410f)
Title: Re: lead vs. copper
Post by: hirshey on April 05, 2010, 01:05:09 PM: PS that is the TMZ 290