Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Muzzleloader Hunting => Topic started by: dbllunger on February 08, 2008, 10:17:54 PM
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I don't own and have never shot a muzzle loader, but I don't see a lot of 150 or heavier powder loads shown. Why is that? I thought most guns were rated to at least 150 grains of powder.
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there is a fine line of pushing a lead bullet too fast and having it smash on impact and fragmenting, and u lose accuracy alot of the times with more speed. Look at some competion muzzleloading sites and look at there loads, u will rarely find a guy shooting over 90gr. Also powder selection is a difference too triple 7 gets way more velocity out of it than Goex and pyrodex, so u could shoot more powder in the those to acheive the same velocity. Lots of practicing and testing to see what works best out of your gun, it took me awhile to find what my gun shoots best.Big lead means dead.
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well said and explained Shane, dblunger, when I bought my 1st muzzy I was bound and determined to use all 150 grains that that gun was rated for........long story short more recoil than needed, piss poor accuracy and a bear to clean. A buddy of mines dad showed me what 85 grains and a round ball would do so I wised up and lowered my powder charge and saw greatly improved accuracy. just like Shane says look around and you wont see alot of people stating that there favorite load is 150 grains under such an such bullet.BTW Shane that is an awesome bull you got there, I hope to get one like that someday.
Sage
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Agree 100% that 150 grains is too much. I too was determined to use 150 grains but could not get a good group. I backed down to 120 grains 2 years ago and I might even take er down to 100 this year if i decide to go the smoke pole route.
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I've been using 90 grains of Triple 7, and that's a pretty stout load. It sure didn't have any problems going all the way through an elk this last year. There's absolutely no reason to go much over 100 grains, especially in this state where jacketed bullets are not legal.
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I don't think a #11 or musket cap can burn 150 grains. A friend of mine laid out 6 feet of butcher paper in front of his rest and tested a lot of charges. Even the lower charges pushed out unburned powder. He shoots 85 grains with a 410 great plains and took his elk at 130 yds this year. I want to duplicate his experiment and see for myself. I couldn't get 130 grains of 777 to group very well.
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It varies from gun to gun a bit, but as a general rule any charge over 120gr. (FF, black powder) and you are just blowing unburned powder out the barrel.
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I use 100.
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I generally shoot 85-95gr. behind patched round ball . That load has killed several Deer and 3 Elk for me. And the same load for home cast mini-balls. Depending on the gun that I am shooting.
A larger charge is not always more accurate or as accurate, as say a 100gr. load . With no more killing power . If your barrel is not long enough to burn all the powder you are just adding weight to the projectile (bullet or round ball) and reducing your velocity . (if you only burn 100grains of your150 grain loadyou are pushing 50grains added to bullet weight) .So big stout loads can work in reverse of what you are trying to do. Shoot what is the most accurate in you gun. Just like smokeless powder you can over load . Just try shooting over a Chronograph sometime.
Slenk
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I use 120 gr. of pyrodex in the .54 cal.
Does 50gr. of measured powder actually weigh 50 gr ?
John
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NO . In fact if you buy 10 different measures and do a check there will be some differences between them. Maybe not much but some.
Slenk
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Black powder is measured by volume.
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Also another thought here is that most of the people you hear about shooting 150 grains of powder are in the midwest and east where jacketed bullets and ballistic tips are leagal. I'm not sure a full lead conical bullet will hold up out of the barrel and accuracy would suffer as others have stated. For me I shoot 100 grains of 777 mostly because I started with two 50 grain pyrodex pellets and just never changed when I went strictly to powder. I am interested in tmike's test though cause if I can get the same accuracy with less powder I figure I will be saving money and have a better time with clean up!
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I shoot a TC 50 with 100 grs of American Pioneer and a 260 grn projectile. Very accurate and consistant out to 100 yrds. (The max i've shot it)
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Hawkenbob,
Is that American Pioneer as clean as Shockey claims? I heard it's good and I have allways wanted to give er a try ...and I may when I run through the last 2 containers of triple 7 I have.
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100 gr of triple 7,pyrodex and goex or not equal. You could shot 150 gr of goex if you can burn it to match the velocity of 100 gr of triple 7, same with pyrodex u could shoot 130 gr to match that of triple 7. Triple 7 versus Goex shooting a 250 gr bullet is around 330 fps slower in the same powder charge.
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I also shoot a T/C .50. I use 100gr pyrodex, 2 50gr pellets w/a 225 buffalo bullet. Get good groups at 100yrd.
One time I dug out one of the bullets from the fresh cut log we used on the stump pile for targets. Had a little bit of fragmenting but was about 80% whole. Mushroomed out pretty well
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I use 100 grain triple seven and 280 grain copper jacketed bullett, works very well, I hope to find out with elk during the late season.
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I killed my elk this year with 130 grn of fff, 777. It's a hot one!!! It shoots well. I tried the 150 grains of powder and between the BAD recoil and no accuracy I started trying other things. I shoot a 300 grn PRB lead sabot.
I tried the 300 grn Hornady SST and 110 grns of ffg, 777 and it shot well. I might hunt with it later. I just didn't want to try a new bullet on a Special hunt. If I hunt deer in late season I will probably try the new SST load now that I have read good reviews about the bullets performance in elk season this year. When I get time I will pump up the load and see how it shoots with a big powder charge.
Kris
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every gun is different, you need to pick the bullets that you are going to use and go and shoot it with triple 7 (it is the best and cleanest burning black powder) with a white sheet over your hood and measure your load of charge until you don't get any over spray of powder on the sheet. Have Knight Wolverine and i have tried the pellets and the loose powder, but the loose burn clean and you don't have to clean as often. I use 92 gr 777 and 295 PB lead and it groups real nice at 125 yards
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just worj up some loads lol try new things go in 10 grain inc to get to 150 if you start playing with it untill you start to see you groups get bigger than you will know what is to much for whatever bullet you are shootin
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I have been muzzle loading for some time and have never found any benefit to loading more than 95gr Loose in anything from a .410-.540 cal. If a guy uses Pellets he will need to load more as the Pellets don't burn as hot and evenly as loose. For this reason I choose loose. My shotgun's I load 100gr loose T7.
Work your load up increasing by 5gr increments and you will find the load that makes your bullet and powder choice the most accurate.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they made jacketed bullets and ballistic tips legal this year? Pg 62 in the regs says that ANY type of projectile is allowed this year.
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe they made jacketed bullets and ballistic tips legal this year? Pg 62 in the regs says that ANY type of projectile is allowed this year.
You are correct. I shoot Barnes solid copper bullets and love them. 45cal Black Diamond Super XR and yes I shoot 150gr 777. 1-2" group at 100 and sends the 190gr bullet out at around 2800fps. I'm ready, someone call *censored*.
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I'm ready, someone call *censored*.
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Ok I will.
I wanna see proof. But I do believe you.
Oh and how many grns are the bullets you shoot?
Kris
