Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: Karl Blanchard on April 01, 2010, 08:53:23 PM

Title: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 01, 2010, 08:53:23 PM: no divorce tags for me this year
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2010, 08:55:37 PM: You must have gone through the back door?
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: MuleySniper on April 01, 2010, 08:56:06 PM: link??
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: JoeVon on April 01, 2010, 08:58:13 PM: I just noticed that myself. For some of the applicants it still says draw not run yet. I'm assuming its a test run, only because the deadline was 21 hours ago....
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: batsquatch on April 01, 2010, 08:58:28 PM: April fools right?
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 01, 2010, 08:59:39 PM: go to the hunting page then special permits and apps and right at the top they have a new page that shows all your hunts and draw results. Its pretty organized and nice.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: MuleySniper on April 01, 2010, 09:03:59 PM: Um yeah, I don't really care about 09 anymore :chuckle:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: seaduckhunter on April 01, 2010, 09:04:14 PM: Damn first time in 3 years that I havent drawn a deer one. Didnt draw a bear. Hope that means I get my late season trophy mule deer tag.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on April 01, 2010, 09:08:48 PM: no luck here, maybe I can get it on the 2nd draw.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on April 01, 2010, 09:11:11 PM: I drew elk last year wasn't expecting to draw this year.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2010, 09:13:10 PM: That's cool. It's nice to look back all the way to '96 and see what hunts I applied for, and what I was drawn for.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on April 01, 2010, 09:14:07 PM: Backdoor still shows not drawn yet... not selected on new link. So maybe there is still hope?
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: MuleySniper on April 01, 2010, 09:14:37 PM: Its not showing anything from 2010 for me for some reason. Hopefully it means I drew! :chuckle:
MS
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: batsquatch on April 01, 2010, 09:15:12 PM: Quote from: MuleySniper on April 01, 2010, 09:14:37 PM
Its not showing anything from 2010 for me for some reason. Hopefully it means I drew! :chuckle:
MS
I was just going to say that
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: washelkhntr on April 01, 2010, 09:16:11 PM: Quote from: bobcat on April 01, 2010, 09:13:10 PM
That's cool. It's nice to look back all the way to '96 and see what hunts I applied for, and what I was drawn for.

You can see yours all the way back to then? I been applying for about the same amount of time, and it only shows 2010 for me. I think they are playing with the site, and I wouldn't put to much faith in it just yet. :twocents:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2010, 09:16:33 PM: They must be doing something with it right now.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2010, 09:17:30 PM: Quote from: washelkhntr on April 01, 2010, 09:16:11 PM
Quote from: bobcat on April 01, 2010, 09:13:10 PM
That's cool. It's nice to look back all the way to '96 and see what hunts I applied for, and what I was drawn for.

You can see yours all the way back to then? I been applying for about the same amount of time, and it only shows 2010 for me. I think they are playing with the site, and I wouldn't put to much faith in it just yet. :twocents:

Yep, I just got done looking at all the hunts I have applied for from 1996 to 2010.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Karl Blanchard on April 01, 2010, 09:20:54 PM: still says not selected on mine. I just noticed they jacked the price up on the multi season this year.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 01, 2010, 09:23:51 PM: washelkhunter, did you go over to the left side and click on the drop down menu and select the year? It comes up showing 2010, but you can pick any year you want back to 1996.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: washelkhntr on April 01, 2010, 09:25:27 PM: I cant even get in now.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: lokidog on April 01, 2010, 09:37:34 PM: Mine says tag not drawn yet. I think it will take two weeks or so to draw like it did for the spring bear. I can't imagine they would draw it in one day..... :twocents:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Instinct on April 01, 2010, 09:53:54 PM: im not seein nothing.. plus it is april 1st... fools day :P lol
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: funkster on April 01, 2010, 10:33:57 PM: Mine is saying "not selected" for both deer and elk. The points used column is showing nothing so I don't think this is official yet. I know I have 4 multi season elk points plus this years point.

What does "Points used" prior to 2006 will be zero mean???
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: grundy53 on April 01, 2010, 10:37:04 PM: mine said the exact same thing monday... before the dead line. plus this state can't do anything that fast :chuckle: . i wouldn't put too much stock into it just yet.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: funkster on April 01, 2010, 10:53:41 PM: Yeah, I figured they are just testing out their "new system".
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: JBar on April 02, 2010, 05:00:47 AM: Quote from: funkster on April 01, 2010, 10:33:57 PM
Mine is saying "not selected" for both deer and elk. The points used column is showing nothing so I don't think this is official yet. I know I have 4 multi season elk points plus this years point.

:yeah:

I have 4 Multi season elk points also and points used on the new screen show nothing used. Back door shows still not drawn.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: whacker1 on April 02, 2010, 05:30:57 AM: not selected for me
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: trophyhunt on April 02, 2010, 06:40:31 AM: Now way can they get this done so fast :dunno: :dunno:. I hope its just a test, sure was counting on getting drawn for elk with 5 points- :'( :'( right now it says NOT SELECTED!!!! :'( :'(
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: workstohunt on April 02, 2010, 06:57:43 AM: Check back door method and it says DRAW NOT RUN YET. Soooo I think we are all still in the running!
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: funkster on April 02, 2010, 07:24:24 AM: It's funny that some people have "draw not run yet" and some say "not selected".
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Bob33 on April 02, 2010, 07:32:20 AM: Outdoor Central doesn't have a very good track record of getting things right on the first try. This may be the tip of an iceberg. Wait until they start managing and displaying all 38 point categories in a couple weeks. :yike:

Ditto - not selected with no "points used" even though I've applied for several years. What does "points used" mean anyway? Is should read "Points left" or "Accumulated points".
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: MtnMuley on April 02, 2010, 07:47:21 AM: Mine says "not selected". However, until I see somebody that has "selected", I'm thinking it's BS. Surely somebody on here would have been "selected" by now.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: uplandhunter870 on April 02, 2010, 08:32:12 AM: + 1 on the "not selected"

i dont get the "points used" thing, if i really didnt get selected shouldnt that say something like "you now have 1 point to use next year" or something to that effect.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2010, 08:36:15 AM: It just means how many points were used in the drawing, is the way I take it to mean. If you look at previous years, you'll see even the hunts that you were selected for, it will show "points used" and then the number of points you had. It doesn't show a zero for the points you have after being selected.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2010, 08:43:50 AM: Quote from: funkster on April 01, 2010, 10:33:57 PM
What does "Points used" prior to 2006 will be zero mean???

Apparently it means they're not going to show points prior to 2006. The way it is now it's not showing points prior to 2007.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: JBar on April 02, 2010, 09:07:09 AM: Drawing not done yet! Just got off the phone with WDFW. :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: grundy53 on April 02, 2010, 09:10:20 AM: nice work Jbar. way to put forth a little extra effort. thanks
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: JBar on April 02, 2010, 09:12:28 AM: I might have ruined everyones fun though! :chuckle:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 02, 2010, 09:19:58 AM: 1 2888 MULTISEASON ELK NOT SELECTED , It does not show my points for previous years.....
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: funkster on April 02, 2010, 09:55:02 AM: Quote from: MtnMuley on April 02, 2010, 07:47:21 AM
Mine says "not selected". However, until I see somebody that has "selected", I'm thinking it's BS. Surely somebody on here would have been "selected" by now.

:yeah:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: KimberRich on April 02, 2010, 10:20:00 AM: Mine also shows not selected.. But I'm with everyone and think there is no way they could have already run the drawing and got results posted and someone on here would have been successful by now if it had been run. Still keeping my fingers crossed!!
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Bob33 on April 02, 2010, 10:21:47 AM: Quote from: JBar on April 02, 2010, 09:07:09 AM
Drawing not done yet! Just got off the phone with WDFW. :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: KimberRich on April 02, 2010, 10:26:35 AM: I'm guessing the results are going to hit April 15th when a bunch of us are in turkey camp and have no access to a computer to check our status!! How quickly do you guys think all the tags will be accounted for and purchased after the drawing using the "First Come, First Served" method?? 3 days? A week? What's everyone's thoughts?
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Alaska316 on April 02, 2010, 10:42:45 AM: Quote from: JBar on April 02, 2010, 09:07:09 AM
Drawing not done yet! Just got off the phone with WDFW. :IBCOOL:

Ditto, just got off the phone with WDFW and they said the drawing has not yet be held. And it should be up on their site in a week or so.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2010, 10:44:52 AM: I am sure that when they are finished with the multi-season drawing, they will post a link, just like they did with the Spring Bear.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: funkster on April 02, 2010, 11:09:37 AM: Quote from: KimberRich on April 02, 2010, 10:26:35 AM
How quickly do you guys think all the tags will be accounted for and purchased after the drawing using the "First Come, First Served" method??

I will buy mine in the first 5 minutes it says "selected"!
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: grundy53 on April 02, 2010, 11:10:21 AM: "I will buy mine in the first 5 minutes it says "selected"!"
:yeah:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bonecrusher on April 02, 2010, 11:27:40 AM: no there not. the draw hasnt been run yet
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2010, 12:08:34 PM: Kind of off topic, but I noticed in the 2007 results, for spring bear, the "points used" is blank. It should be showing 2 points for that. I'm just wondering if somehow they didn't use the points at all in the sping bear drawing that year, or at least they didn't use MY points. I know one of the drawings in the past was redone suppodely because Outdoor Central had failed to apply people's points. Everything else in 2007 is correct.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 02, 2010, 12:12:22 PM: That is weird, because when I look at mine..2007 isn't even there...2006, then 2008 ????
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bonecrusher on April 02, 2010, 12:47:14 PM: up at the top of the page it says point from 2006 and earlier will show as zreo, or something like that
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2010, 12:48:51 PM: Right but I'm looking at 2007. And the points show for everything except for spring bear.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bonecrusher on April 02, 2010, 01:10:59 PM: i see. i was thinking there were non showing because you used them when you drew. but now i get what your saying
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2010, 01:12:29 PM: What does your show for Spring Bear in 2007?
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: WASHBCBOOK on April 02, 2010, 04:47:36 PM: I called wdfw and talked to the license manager
he told me they have not drawn yet next week
also they have to have a witness that`s not working for the wdfw a
local civilian so guys dont get your panties in a bind they havnt drawn yet
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 02, 2010, 04:54:42 PM: Yeah I think we all figured that out a long time ago.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Ghost Hunter on April 03, 2010, 11:29:29 AM: I'm showing unsuccessful for elk multi 2010, and successful for 2010 spring bear. :dunno:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bucklucky on April 03, 2010, 11:44:01 AM: I just checked and it says draw not run yet.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: starbailey on April 05, 2010, 09:03:17 AM: Just checked and mine reads Not Drawn for both deer and elk.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: funkster on April 05, 2010, 09:22:17 AM: I know that the drawing hasn't run yet,but why does mine say "not selected" instead of "draw not run yet" :dunno:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 05, 2010, 09:30:07 AM: Mine says not selected.... :dunno:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: jackelope on April 05, 2010, 09:40:22 AM: I just tried it through the back door and that new feature and the back door way says "DRAW NOT RUN YET" and the new feature says "NOT SELECTED".
:dunno:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Bob33 on April 05, 2010, 09:40:36 AM: The "frontdoor": https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/WA/Specialhuntlookup/Custsearch
Results are SELECTED or NOT SELECTED when draw has been run. Some draws have not been run.

The "backdoor": https://fishhunt.dfw.wa.gov/WA/Specialhunt/Custsearch
Results are SELECTED, NOT SELECTED, or DRAW NOT RUN
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: whacker1 on April 05, 2010, 09:49:08 AM: not selected on front door

draw not run yet on back door.

I guess we continue to wait. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 05, 2010, 09:59:48 AM: You know, really the "front door" should not show any results yet if the "draw not run yet" is true. I think what is probably happening is that they did, or are in the process, of doing test runs. That is why results shown are inconsistent. Just my thoughts on it. I wouldn't worry about it until the official draw is finished.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: jackelope on April 05, 2010, 10:01:02 AM: Bob-
I think you're probably on the right track
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: HoofsandWings on April 05, 2010, 03:11:11 PM: Actually, with the new results site, instead of "draw not run" yet, the default language is "not selected".
Keep checking the back door. I suspect Friday the 9th the earliest the draw will be run.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 05, 2010, 03:14:05 PM: HoofsandWings, that makes sense. So everybody's should say 'not selected' before the draw is run. But, why do some people just have a blank space there?
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: elkaholic123 on April 05, 2010, 03:18:48 PM: Results are posted!!!!!!!!!No elk multi season for me! :'(
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: uplandhunter870 on April 05, 2010, 03:26:05 PM: i called the licensing dept. of fish and game this afternoon and basically what i was told is "not selected" is where everyone should be as far as results as of right now. i was also told that the draw will be ran tomorrow, and i should check the front door way again tomorrow evening, and notifications are expected to be sent out next week. take this with a grain of salt i was talking with a gal that had to relay my questions to another gal then the first gal repeated the other gals answer to me, so something may of gotten lost in translation

just letting everyone know what fish and game told me
Steve
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: alanger on April 05, 2010, 03:32:51 PM: I looked and it didnt show anything yet on mine, no heading for 2010 draw results, ????
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bonkellekter on April 05, 2010, 04:29:01 PM: Quote from: alanger on April 05, 2010, 03:32:51 PM
I looked and it didnt show anything yet on mine, no heading for 2010 draw results, ????

same here
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: saylean on April 05, 2010, 04:43:59 PM: Backdoor=draw not run yet.

DONT BELIEVE THE HYPE! :chuckle: :bash: :hello:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 05, 2010, 04:45:59 PM: we will hold are breath to see if it does how up tomarrow :chuckle: but i think a few of use might be blue by the time they do :chuckle:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Instinct on April 05, 2010, 10:07:38 PM: just a question here.. this is my first year for putting in for any tags or special permits. now i payed my $6.50 at bi mart for the multi permit. does that mean that im included for the drawing? or was i supposed to take the lil paper tag n go on the net to the wdfw website and put in the information?
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bobcat on April 05, 2010, 10:26:33 PM: All you have to do is purchase the application. You are entered in the drawing automatically.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 05, 2010, 10:28:08 PM: for the multi tag like bob said all you got to do is buy it and it is done for you. with the other special apps you have to choose 1-4 hunt choice numbers for the tags/area you want to try to draw if you do not do this you will have wasted the 6.50
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Instinct on April 05, 2010, 10:52:42 PM: alright cool thanks for the help there.. was curious and was gonna be like fock wasted 6.50 lol
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Cougeyes on April 05, 2010, 11:07:15 PM: Quote from: alanger on April 05, 2010, 03:32:51 PM
I looked and it didnt show anything yet on mine, no heading for 2010 draw results, ????
Good then i'm not the only one seeing this, people are on here saying they're drawn and not drawn and here I am with no application showing up for my multiseason elk. And 2010 doesn't show up either.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Crunchy on April 06, 2010, 07:18:01 AM: The drawing has not been done. I got an email yesterday from WDFW. The email asked if I was applyiing as a group leader, member, or individual. They somehow didnt get this information when I tried three other times to submit my app for multi elk.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: ACCUBOND on April 06, 2010, 03:15:30 PM: There out!
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Austrian Hunter on April 06, 2010, 03:22:52 PM: Draw Not Run Yet!
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: lewy on April 06, 2010, 03:25:42 PM: just called and they havent even held the drawing yet, at least another week...........Patience people :chuckle:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: steeleywhopper on April 06, 2010, 03:27:03 PM: This is killing me!
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: grundy53 on April 06, 2010, 03:30:59 PM: lol. i think people are just post sh!t so that they can laugh at everyone freaking out. lol
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Alaska316 on April 06, 2010, 03:37:52 PM: I don't know why I am so excited. Not like I even have a chance. If I do get drawn, my heart my stop.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: halflife65 on April 06, 2010, 04:34:37 PM: You have a reasonable chance with deer, especially. I've drawn a couple of times. It seems that my 2010 stuff just showed up today (couldn't see it before) with "Not Selected" though. Not sure if that is because I haven't been selected because they haven't drawn or I haven't been selected because I wasn't selected.

Especially with deer, they usually have a couple of drawings after people that draw the first time decide not to participate (don't want to pay for the tag, something came up or whatever) so there is another chance (or two.)
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on April 06, 2010, 05:10:26 PM: O.K. guy i worked with was looking at his stuff on line today and it had nothing on line for 2010. So he called the licensing division and the woman told him that the reason he couldn't see it is because he did not buy his stuff on line, his name is in the drawing but it has not been inputed on line to his wild ID yet. She also told him that the drawing would be done today but results would not be posted untill next week, so he asked her about looking at it through outdoor central and told him that had been fixed and will not be updated untill the results are posted.

Just posting what she told him, i was sitting right there so i heard the conversation.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Alaska316 on April 06, 2010, 05:49:19 PM: Just looked at mine and it says drawing outcome, not selected. It didn't say this earlier today. I hope everyones says this.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: halflife65 on April 06, 2010, 05:54:20 PM: Quote from: Alaska316 on April 06, 2010, 05:49:19 PM
Just looked at mine and it says drawing outcome, not selected. It didn't say this earlier today. I hope everyones says this.

Mine does. There is absolutely no way that both of us didn't get drawn. No. Way.

Seriously, though, I had no results for 2010 until today - they showed up for the first time. With the discouraging news that I was "Not Selected."
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: bonkellekter on April 06, 2010, 06:05:27 PM: Quote from: halflife65 on April 06, 2010, 05:54:20 PM
Quote from: Alaska316 on April 06, 2010, 05:49:19 PM
Just looked at mine and it says drawing outcome, not selected. It didn't say this earlier today. I hope everyones says this.

Mine does. There is absolutely no way that both of us didn't get drawn. No. Way.

Seriously, though, I had no results for 2010 until today - they showed up for the first time. With the discouraging news that I was "Not Selected."

same here
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: TheKid#10 on April 06, 2010, 06:29:33 PM: patience
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: fish-on37 on April 06, 2010, 06:53:53 PM: The "back door" still says "draw not run yet"
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Crunchy on April 06, 2010, 07:05:49 PM: I cant believe one point didnt get it done :chuckle:

2010 MULTISEASON ELK Application Type: Individual Point used: 1
Hunt Choice Number Hunt Number Hunt Name Drawing Outcome
1 2888 MULTISEASON ELK NOT SELECTED
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Machias on April 06, 2010, 07:33:41 PM: Quote from: Crunchy on April 06, 2010, 07:05:49 PM
I cant believe one point didnt get it done :chuckle:

2010 MULTISEASON ELK Application Type: Individual Point used: 1
Hunt Choice Number Hunt Number Hunt Name Drawing Outcome
1 2888 MULTISEASON ELK NOT SELECTED

Crunchy, they ALL say that since the draw has not been run yet. NO ONE has been selected yet.
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: Alaska316 on April 06, 2010, 07:44:56 PM: We may need to start a support group for those of us who don't get drawn. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: funkster on April 07, 2010, 08:58:19 AM: It would be funny if the wdfw made it so anyone who checked the "back door" way before the drawing was official, automatically would be tagged with "not selected" :chuckle:

with that said,mine shows points now and "not selected" for both deer and elk :dunno:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: fish-on37 on April 07, 2010, 04:07:23 PM: Now the main link is up for the Multi-season drawing and the back door says the same. Got selected for deer again :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Multiple Season results are out!
Post by: jackelope on April 07, 2010, 04:08:51 PM: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,47870.msg580162/topicseen.html#msg580162 (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,47870.msg580162/topicseen.html#msg580162)

locked this one...to be continued over there.