Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Rickyrebar on April 05, 2010, 06:59:48 PM

Title: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: Rickyrebar on April 05, 2010, 06:59:48 PM: Worked up my 1st hand-loads last weekend, was quite a rush to finally shoot my own stuff!
Using Nosler #6 manual recommendation for a starting point and max load, I loaded 3 rounds of each in 1/2 grain increments (60 Gr. - 64 Gr.).
I found that the 60.5 Gr load to be scary accurate, basically put 3 shots into a pattern where they were all touching one another. As I continued to shoot the heavier loaded rounds accuracy diminished (still much better than any factory loads I have ever shot). I went clear up to the 64 Gr load with no signs of pressure.
Anyhow, so here I am and where do I go from here.
The most accurate rounds I loaded were the lightest loads.
Per the Nosler #6, it tells me the MV of the most accurate load I shot is around 2826 f.p.s.
I love the accuracy, but, being a guy my, natural instinct is that, bigger is better, more is better. I do not have access to a chronograph, so I have no idea what the actual MV is in these loads.
Shooting 300 WSM / 180 Gr / Nosler BST / Model 70 Winny
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: Curly on April 05, 2010, 07:05:17 PM: I'd always opt for accuracy over velocity. The extra velocity out of a couple grains more powder won't make a difference.
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: high country on April 05, 2010, 07:08:40 PM: I would say if you can get it to group like that a few times just go with it. you can wear a gun out trying to get the next 50 fps and good accuracy at the same time. use the load you hav eto become familliar with it. what is 100fps mol gonna do for you anyhow? if you can shoot it a bunch at known ranges with a good record of hits, that in itself is better thenany paper trail from a program.

have fun!

oh, and stock up on what you need for components!
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: Rickyrebar on April 05, 2010, 07:20:21 PM: "oh, and stock up on what you need for components!"

That is good advice. I have noticed in just a few weeks time the shelves in my local haunts starting to empty. I got into reloading for several different reasons, one being availability of the ammo I like, now here I am and I'm watching the components that fit my needs leave the shelves and are not being restocked. Is this normal or ?
What is the shelf life for powder & primers?
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on April 05, 2010, 07:53:09 PM: For competition I'll take accuracy over velocity. Normally for hunting I'll take the same. I do compromise a little accuracy for velocity for hunting loads in a magnum cartridge if I can justify the velocity difference. I didn't buy a belted mag to shoot as a slower 'accurate' 30-06! That said, I have a 30-338 that's a tack driver with Sierra BT bullets, but I can't push that bullet as hard as I can a heavier Hornady BTSP with what I'll call acceptable accuracy. The earlier is sub moa, the latter shoots just a bit more than moa. I doubt you bought that short mag to be shooting like a 30-06 AI.

That said, Now you've got something to work with. You know that you've got an accurate load. You can start to play with bullet seating depth to get more accuracy out of the warmer loads. You're looking for at least a 150fps difference to make it worth your time though. I'll agree with previous posts, 50fps is not worth your time. Otherwise you're best kept to shooting accurate as hell, and learning the scope clicks/windage/distance to target for that load to be a killer.. Um on target. Other than bullet seat depth for a more accurate 'warmer' load, you could change powder and/or bullet to get more velocity and accuracy. It all depends on what you expect out of your gun and what you're going to be using it for.

-Steve
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: high country on April 05, 2010, 07:53:37 PM: I have shot powders that were 10 years old without issue, although I never double checked on he chrono. primers about 5 years is the longest I have had them, but some rounds I found that were at least 20 years old still went bang every time.
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: AWS on April 05, 2010, 10:10:18 PM: If I'm getting 1/2" groups with the bottom loads and 3/4 with heavier/faster(I use a chrony for all load developement)loads I'll take the faster load because it is more than accurate enough for me. If the choice is 1/2" vs 1 1/2" I'll take the 1/2" because the 1 1/2 won't stay in the kill area of a coyote at 300yrds, my limit on coyotes.

AWS
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: Jamieb on April 05, 2010, 11:09:14 PM: Rickyrebar, Welcome to the fun world of reloading.
With most of the cartridge/rifles I've loaded for I find a really accurate load low on the powder charges and another as the load reaches max.
Accuracy is king and I wont give up any accuracy for velocity but before I even start load work up I have a speed in mind that I'm going to reach in order to be happy, I'll try changing powders but if I cant reach the set speed with that bullet then its time to junk that bullet and try something else.
I shoot a few loads that are over book max a ways to reach the velocity but I always work up loads over a crony and watch for pressure signs.
Without a crony your just guessing, the reloading manuals are just guides with data from test barrels that wont normally match what we get with our rifles. The guys that load their own to save a few bucks and get accurate ammo to hunt with,reloading is a part of the hunting, probably hasn't any need for a crony. A deer will never know if that 180 that killed him was only going 2800FPS or 3000FPS. IMHO if your going to seriously get into reloading/shooting then a chronograph is a must have.
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on April 05, 2010, 11:13:45 PM: Quote
IMHO if your going to seriously get into reloading/shooting then a chronograph is a must have.

:yeah: I will not disagree one bit with that statement.

-Steve
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: high country on April 06, 2010, 05:01:36 AM: that is fact. I have seen two identical rifles shoot the same exact in every way load be a touch over 100fps different on the same chrony on the same day ath the same time........manual printed speeds are more for showing the top end pressures via speed IMO
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: Shootmoore on April 06, 2010, 05:21:33 AM: Accuracy over velocity any day.

Velocity don't mean spit if you don't hit where your aiming imho.

Shootmoore
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: ACCUBOND on April 06, 2010, 06:41:00 AM: Ricky, if you want some velosity try some reloader 17. It will get over 3000 fps with 180'out of the 300 wsm. Do a search on here there is a lot of 300wsm info. I think by "caretaker"
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: bobcat on April 06, 2010, 07:54:02 AM: Quote from: AWS on April 05, 2010, 10:10:18 PM
If I'm getting 1/2" groups with the bottom loads and 3/4 with heavier/faster(I use a chrony for all load developement)loads I'll take the faster load because it is more than accurate enough for me. If the choice is 1/2" vs 1 1/2" I'll take the 1/2" because the 1 1/2 won't stay in the kill area of a coyote at 300yrds, my limit on coyotes.

AWS

:yeah:
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: GoldTip on April 06, 2010, 12:04:51 PM: Quote from: bobcat on April 06, 2010, 07:54:02 AM
Quote from: AWS on April 05, 2010, 10:10:18 PM
If I'm getting 1/2" groups with the bottom loads and 3/4 with heavier/faster(I use a chrony for all load developement)loads I'll take the faster load because it is more than accurate enough for me. If the choice is 1/2" vs 1 1/2" I'll take the 1/2" because the 1 1/2 won't stay in the kill area of a coyote at 300yrds, my limit on coyotes.

AWS

:yeah:

X2.
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: Bob33 on April 06, 2010, 12:11:33 PM: My thoughts:
(a) a sample size of one group is pretty small on which to draw any conclusions.
(b) how bad was the accuracy at 64 grains?
(c) fast and accurate beats accurate.
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: Buckblaster on April 06, 2010, 12:31:27 PM: I go for both accuracy and velocity, why choose? I work up different powders one grain at a time with cheap bullets till I see a spike in velocities on the chrono or other pressure signs, then I back it down a grain or so (staying within published load data of course). Then I load the ones with the highest velocities with a few different types of bullets that I prefer and choose the one with the best group. I then test it in summer temps in the 70's to make sure there are no excessive pressures (the higher the temp, the higher the load pressures). I prefer the Hogdgon Extreme powders because they are less sensitive to temperature differences. I have found no difference in velocities tested at 25 and 70 degrees with the Extreme powders. Some powders I have tested shoot 150 fps different at those extremes which effect your groups. I don't sacrifice accuracy or velocity the way I work up loads. I go for both. I'll probably catch hell from somebody for the way I do it but it has safely worked for me for the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: C-Money on April 06, 2010, 01:34:56 PM: Sounds like you found a good load! I'd use it! 2800+ FPS is plenty fast!
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: Buckblaster on April 06, 2010, 01:52:49 PM: My best velocity with a safe load in my 300wsm with 180 gr bullets is 2960 fps. Nothing wrong with your velocity. If you like it, shoot it. If curiousity is getting to you, try a different load. Thats what handloading is all about. Keep a good diary so in years to come you will know what worked for you and what didn't.
Title: Re: Accuracy vs Velocity
Post by: ACCUBOND on April 06, 2010, 03:50:09 PM: Getting 3062 with 175's 3/4" group, shot 3015 with 180's. (300WSM) IMO might as well shoot an 3006 with those speeds from a 180 grain bullet.