Post by: Atroxus on April 28, 2010, 08:39:08 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 28, 2010, 08:55:04 PM
Post by: duckaholic on April 28, 2010, 09:01:32 PM
Post by: BPturkeys on April 29, 2010, 07:46:06 AM
But one more word of advise, don't get your legal advise from a hunting forum. :)
Post by: bobcat on April 29, 2010, 08:49:05 AM
Post by: turkeydancer on April 29, 2010, 08:57:06 AM
Post by: Bob33 on April 29, 2010, 09:14:32 AM
A few months ago, a student in one of our hunter education classes asked if it was legal to hunt with a shotgun capable of holding four rounds. Of course we said "no". He then proceeded to tell us that he had just purchased a new Remington 870 3 1/2" 12 gauge shotgun, and the magazine held THREE 2 3/4" shells. I didn't believe him at first, but I went to the Remington website and confirmed his story.
Legal or not? I asked several enforcement officers, and went to the Lt. level of WDFW Enforcement. The verdict: technically the gun is not legal, because it is capable of holding four rounds. However, if the hunter only has 3 1/2" ammunition in his possession, he will not be cited. If he has 2 3/4" ammunition in his possession, he will be cited.
Of course, you may encounter an enforcement officer that disagrees and cites you anyway. I think you would have a very strong case if you did not have .22 ammunition.
It is not illegal to have a .22 in your possession. It is illegal to HUNT with it. How can you be hunting without ammunition?
Post by: Atroxus on April 29, 2010, 09:17:23 AM
Post by: KimberRich on April 29, 2010, 09:40:51 AM
Here is why I think it is legal (or at least why you will not be cited), if you do not have .22 ammunition in your possession.
A few months ago, a student in one of our hunter education classes asked if it was legal to hunt with a shotgun capable of holding four rounds. Of course we said "no". He then proceeded to tell us that he had just purchased a new Remington 870 3 1/2" 12 gauge shotgun, and the magazine held THREE 2 3/4" shells. I didn't believe him at first, but I went to the Remington website and confirmed his story.
Legal or not? I asked several enforcement officers, and went to the Lt. level of WDFW Enforcement. The verdict: technically the gun is not legal, because it is capable of holding four rounds. However, if the hunter only has 3 1/2" ammunition in his possession, he will not be cited. If he has 2 3/4" ammunition in his possession, he will be cited.
Of course, you may encounter an enforcement officer that disagrees and cites you anyway. I think you would have a very strong case if you did not have .22 ammunition.
It is not illegal to have a .22 in your possession. It is illegal to HUNT with it. How can you be hunting without ammunition?
Speaking of this.. Has anyone ever been stopped and questioned about their magazine capacity?? I've ran into a few game wardens in the field and never once was I asked about magazine capacity.
Post by: bobcat on April 29, 2010, 09:50:43 AM
Post by: KimberRich on April 29, 2010, 10:06:10 AM
Yes, while duck hunting. They checked my shotgun's magazine to see if it would hold more than 2 shells.
How did they do it? Just ask you to put 2 shells in and try to put a 3rd or did they take your gun and try themselves or ?? I've always just got the "can i see your license" and "have you got anything".. from them in the past. Now that I've said that I'm sure I'll get checked this fall! :chuckle:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 29, 2010, 10:37:45 AM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 29, 2010, 10:41:01 AM
:twocents:
Post by: bobcat on April 29, 2010, 10:42:07 AM
Yes, while duck hunting. They checked my shotgun's magazine to see if it would hold more than 2 shells.
How did they do it? Just ask you to put 2 shells in and try to put a 3rd or did they take your gun and try themselves or ?? I've always just got the "can i see your license" and "have you got anything".. from them in the past. Now that I've said that I'm sure I'll get checked this fall! :chuckle:
This was probably 20 years ago, so it's hard to remember exactly how he did it, but he did take the gun from me and check it himself. I can't remember if he actually put shotgun shells in the magazine to see how many would fit? Actually, it seems like he had some type of a gauge that he stuck in the magazine to measure how far it would go in. Somebody on here will probably have a better idea of how they normally do it. The last 15 years or so I've done more pheasant hunting than any other kidn of bird hunting and I've never had a warden check me for anything, not even a license. :dunno:
Post by: Bob33 on April 29, 2010, 10:44:20 AM
How did they do it? Just ask you to put 2 shells in and try to put a 3rd or did they take your gun and try themselves or ??They do not load the gun. The officer has a gauge that he inserts in the magazine. If it does not hit the plug, then the magazine is too long.
Post by: bobcat on April 29, 2010, 10:46:51 AM
As long as you do not have the .22 ammo on you, you are legal.
:twocents:
What about having 22 shells in your pocket but not in the gun? That should be ok as far as I'm concerned. If the gun is not loaded, you aren't hunting.
Post by: baldopepper on April 29, 2010, 11:10:12 AM
Post by: Bob33 on April 29, 2010, 11:21:18 AM
I have had officers give two opposite interpretations of the same law. My example earlier of the four cartridge shotgun: some officers told me they would cite, some told me they would not.
No matter what you have written down, an officer in the field may cite you.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 29, 2010, 11:28:03 AM
Post by: bobcat on April 29, 2010, 11:28:26 AM
What if you want to carry a 22 pistol while turkey hunting with a shotgun? Just because you have a handgun strapped to your belt does not mean you are hunting with it.
Post by: rougheye on April 29, 2010, 11:28:42 AM
Post by: TONTO on April 29, 2010, 11:30:56 AM
Post by: Bob33 on April 29, 2010, 11:36:06 AM
If you have a gun with a shotgun barrel loaded, and a 22 rifle barrel that is not loaded, it should be obvious that you are hunting with a shotgun. I can't imagine any warden writing someone up for that.Right, but you start to approach a judgment line, and that's why no one can say with certainty what an enforcement officer will do. If you have a .22 strapped to your belt, and a dead turkey with a single hole through its head...then you might have some explaining to do. :chuckle:
What if you want to carry a 22 pistol while turkey hunting with a shotgun? Just because you have a handgun strapped to your belt does not mean you are hunting with it.
I tend to believe that most enforcement officers are good people who want to do the right thing. There are exceptions, but I don't choose to live my life believing they are out to get me.
Hunt with your over under, but don't carry any .22 ammo. You should be fine.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 29, 2010, 11:37:16 AM
If you have the shells, then you have "cause" for an officer to cite you.
Post by: bobcat on April 29, 2010, 11:49:41 AM
Post by: Bob33 on April 29, 2010, 11:51:48 AM
Post by: duckaholic on April 29, 2010, 12:03:04 PM
and for the checking of your shotguns, i get checked at least 3 times a season and every time i have been checked the officer asked for my gun then unloads it, him/her self then will try to load the mag. tube with all three rounds and then will load the gun up as it was and hand it back to me.
Post by: bobcat on April 29, 2010, 12:05:12 PM
:jacked:
Post by: haus on April 29, 2010, 12:39:02 PM
I was checked last year while duck hunting, the warden had me unload, then ran some sort of wand over my shells to chech lead free, then had me reload and check if I could put a third shell in my benelli's tube. This was all after she walked right through my spred and freaked out my dog.well wasn't that just nice and polite of her :chuckle:
Post by: garyltbh on April 29, 2010, 12:51:44 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 29, 2010, 01:04:25 PM
Maybe the "magazine gauges" are in short supply and the rookies have to use the old fashioned method of checking for a plug. :dunno:Actually, I think the issue is the multiple shotgun shell lengths. Now that there are 3 1/2" chambers, the officers want to know if you can load three of your cartridges into the magazine. It's not as simple as it used to be. If you can load three of your 2 3/4" shells, you're busted, even if the magazine will only allow two 3 1/2".
:jacked: