Post by: bowhiker on May 17, 2010, 02:36:04 PM
Post by: jackelope on May 17, 2010, 02:37:22 PM
:dunno:
Post by: gasman on May 17, 2010, 03:24:32 PM
the bowhunters on here will tell you that the state is phasing out archery hunting.
:dunno:
I don't think they are phasing us out, just giving us the "shaft"........
Post by: dreamingbig on May 18, 2010, 10:13:00 AM
Post by: Bob33 on May 18, 2010, 10:32:49 AM
So I reviewed the new regs for early deer season and found I am missing several days this year. I'm sure this has been hit, but why the change? Are bowhunters not hitting their quota and the muzzleloaders filling in the gap. For me the first part of September is used to prepare for elk season, then the remainder of the month I can focus on deer. Now that time just shrunk. Any explanation on this?I don't understand. In 2009 the early Western Washington archery season in the majority of GMUs was Sep 1-25. In 2010 the early Western Washington archery season in the majority of GMUs is Sep 1-24. Please explain what you mean by missing several days this year.
Post by: wastickslinger on May 18, 2010, 10:52:57 AM
Losing one day seems pitty but if we lost one every year it would hurt. And we will, just wait.
They are slowly picking away the archery seasons.
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 18, 2010, 11:16:57 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 18, 2010, 11:45:21 AM
That's why I decided to go back to muzzleloader hunting this year for deer... a 9 day early season which obviously includes 2 full weekends.
Bowhiker, I have the same question as Bob33. I'm not clear on which "several days" you are talking about that you have lost ???
Post by: dreamingbig on May 19, 2010, 06:32:03 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 07:19:16 AM
We have lost 6 days in two years. 5 days last year and 1 day this year. 2008 it was the full month of Sep. I am sure that is his basis. Bobcat, I know you know that.
Well, no, actually I don't know that. How could I? I'm going by what he wrote: "I reviewed the new regs for early deer season and found I am missing several days this year."
I can only assume he is comparing this year's new regulations to last year's. And there was no reduction in the season. If he is comparing to two years ago, then he should say so.
Anyway, I believe Bullblaster answered the question correctly.
Post by: predatorpro on May 19, 2010, 07:30:17 AM
Post by: Bob33 on May 19, 2010, 07:43:47 AM
I have to ask the obvious: what is the problem with equalizing opportunity or harvest between the three primary hunting methods? In 2009 there were about 20,000 archery deer hunters and about 106,000 modern deer hunters in the general seasons. Is there something wrong with giving more opportunity to the 106,000 who pay about five times more in license fees?
:peep:
Post by: dreamingbig on May 19, 2010, 07:56:19 AM
It takes more days afield to be successful with archery than it does with modern firearm. You simply can't dispute that. Success rates for archery are falling and will continue to do so with each day lost. If the length of archery season was equal to or less than the modern season then it wouldn't even be a contest. Heck, I haven't taken a deer with my bow in the last five years so I must be a really terrible hunter. I have had many bucks within 75 to 100 yrds but haven't been able to close the distance.
Btw, there were only 9,333 muzzleloaders for deer so why is the state tripping over themselves to improve their seasons?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on May 19, 2010, 07:58:10 AM
(Putting armor on now).
I have to ask the obvious: what is the problem with equalizing opportunity or harvest between the three primary hunting methods? In 2009 there were about 20,000 archery deer hunters and about 106,000 modern deer hunters in the general seasons. Is there something wrong with giving more opportunity to the 106,000 who pay about five times more in license fees?
:peep:
???
Post by: dreamingbig on May 19, 2010, 07:59:51 AM
You are a moderator. I sure hope you can figure that out. Given your knowledge of the seasons and regulations, witnessed in other posts, I know you know how things have changed from 2005 to 2008 until now (2010). If you want to hide behind the literal meaning of an individual's post then I guess that is your right.
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 08:01:39 AM
Post by: dreamingbig on May 19, 2010, 08:08:11 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 08:18:56 AM
Bobcat,
You are a moderator. I sure hope you can figure that out. Given your knowledge of the seasons and regulations, witnessed in other posts, I know you know how things have changed from 2005 to 2008 until now (2010). If you want to hide behind the literal meaning of an individual's post then I guess that is your right.
Last I checked, moderators don't have any special powers that allow me to read a person's mind, from the words that they write. That is why I asked the original poster a question:
Quote
Bowhiker, I have the same question as Bob33. I'm not clear on which "several days" you are talking about that you have lost ???
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 08:20:31 AM
Muzzleloader success rates still higher than archery.
Not a significant amount. Anyone is free to hunt whichever season they like best. (I have done all three)
Post by: Wild Bill on May 19, 2010, 08:24:58 AM
(Putting armor on now).
.... Is there something wrong with giving more opportunity to the 106,000 who pay about five times more in license fees?....
Personally, I wouldnt mind having the lost days back... I can think of 4 dead bulls for me and friends that fell to our arrows on the last day... two on the last evening... every minute counts.... I was thinking we lost 2 days this yr... used to run from the 6- 22... As far as oppurtunity, it makes more since to make all three methods even across the board, and let the hunter pic their poison... but, as pointed out above... its all about money and who pays the most.... Pretty sad..
Good news is I think we will see all the wanna be archers (dudes who crossed because "the season is better")leaving cause of the shorter season... if that helps it get back to where I only see 2-3 dudes a season, so be it... i'll take the shorter season.... Also wont miss the "90 yrd pin" crews..
I've hunted primarily archery for the last 7 yrs. Used to hunt rifle. I hunt archery as its more of a rush, and I hunt harder than the average dude, therefore make my own luck (hence im 6 for 7 on bulls, would be 7 for 7 but lost one this last yr) ... Also, my wife hunts rifle deer, as blacktail hunters the odds are slim to see two "shooter" blacktails in one yr. By shooter i dont mean decent 3x or forkie. It's gotta be a stud 3x or better, hence weve only shot 4 bucks in the last seven yrs combined... thats fine, again our choice... There has been many seasons that iv'e passed well over 20 bucks up in all sizes.... in 2007 I saw 48 legal bucks.... dinkers by my mark... all during archery...
point is not to toot my horn, but point out that i as well dont like the changes for the most part, (minus the fewer archers) but it damn sure dont change the way I hunt, and for the most part wont affect my success...
just my :twocents:
WB
Post by: dreamingbig on May 19, 2010, 08:35:58 AM
Bobcat,
You are a moderator. I sure hope you can figure that out. Given your knowledge of the seasons and regulations, witnessed in other posts, I know you know how things have changed from 2005 to 2008 until now (2010). If you want to hide behind the literal meaning of an individual's post then I guess that is your right.
Last I checked, moderators don't have any special powers that allow me to read a person's mind, from the words that they write. That is why I asked the original poster a question:QuoteBowhiker, I have the same question as Bob33. I'm not clear on which "several days" you are talking about that you have lost ???
You are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that you are hiding behind semantics.
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 08:36:53 AM
You are entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that you are hiding behind semantics.
:bash: :bash: :bash: :stup:
Post by: dreamingbig on May 19, 2010, 08:44:20 AM
Post by: fisheral87 on May 19, 2010, 09:20:44 AM
Archery success rate = Muzzy Success rate = Modern Success rate = equal opportunity to harvest
Which I feel is a pretty fair measure.
Seems to me that lost day is a scheduling issue. I agree with the frustration of losing five days. I'll be interested to see the schedule for '11.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on May 19, 2010, 09:31:01 AM
Quote
I'll be interested to see the schedule for '11Page 113 of the new pamphlet, I tried to cut and paste, but... :P
Post by: bearpaw on May 19, 2010, 09:31:53 AM
IMO seasons sway to the preference of those in charge, and that is just how politics work. It seems that for "resource allocation" to be truly fair, season length would be based solely on success rates, allowing the number of days for each group to have overall equal success rates. :twocents:
For some muzzy seasons very limited numbers of units are open. Rather than give muzzleloaders more days, it seems that it would have been more fair to give muzzleloaders more units during hunts so they could hunt closer to home. Just my opinion. :twocents:
Post by: fisheral87 on May 19, 2010, 09:41:57 AM
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 09:50:47 AM
Post by: fisheral87 on May 19, 2010, 10:06:03 AM
I might be missing something though.
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 10:22:43 AM
Post by: wastickslinger on May 19, 2010, 11:00:42 AM
I don't know if you're missing something, but I'll try to explain it again. You are right, one less day in 2011 than in 2010. But as I already said, it is not due to a "cut" by the WDFW. The archery season begins on September 1 and it ends on a Friday. This year that date happens to be the 24th, next year it is the 23rd. In 2012, if they keep everything the same, that date will be the 28th. So that will be a 5 day longer season than the 2011 season. But again that won't be due to the WDFW adding 5 days to it. It's just the way the dates fall on the calendar.
Yes that might be the case this year and next year, we lose a day because of the way the calandar falls. So why dont we get it open on a set Satuday every year like muzz and rifle? That prevent the "lost day". Keep a set amount of days.
Also you cannot argue that archery has continually lost days over the years. We always had he whole month of September and I can remember hunting December late archery as well. Now it ends Nov 31. :dunno:
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 19, 2010, 11:06:25 AM
I don't know if you're missing something, but I'll try to explain it again. You are right, one less day in 2011 than in 2010. But as I already said, it is not due to a "cut" by the WDFW. The archery season begins on September 1 and it ends on a Friday. This year that date happens to be the 24th, next year it is the 23rd. In 2012, if they keep everything the same, that date will be the 28th. So that will be a 5 day longer season than the 2011 season. But again that won't be due to the WDFW adding 5 days to it. It's just the way the dates fall on the calendar.:iamwithstupid:
there will still be at least 3 full weekends for the early archery deer season, and some years we will get 4 weekends.
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 11:09:58 AM
Quote
Yes that might be the case this year and next year, we lose a day because of the way the calandar falls. So why dont we get it open on a set Satuday every year like muzz and rifle? That prevent the "lost day". Keep a set amount of days.
That's a good question. The only reason, I guess, is that it would then have to open in August some years. I don't know why that would be a problem but apparently it is. :dunno: I know other states like Oregon and California have opening dates for archery in August. Maybe that's something that needs to be asked at the next Commissioner's meeting.
As for the late archery season, around here it goes to December 31st, and I see many good GMU's open on the eastside until December 15th. Archery hunters have it good no matter how you look at it.
Post by: wastickslinger on May 19, 2010, 02:16:59 PM
QuoteYes that might be the case this year and next year, we lose a day because of the way the calandar falls. So why dont we get it open on a set Satuday every year like muzz and rifle? That prevent the "lost day". Keep a set amount of days.
That's a good question. The only reason, I guess, is that it would then have to open in August some years. I don't know why that would be a problem but apparently it is. :dunno: I know other states like Oregon and California have opening dates for archery in August. Maybe that's something that needs to be asked at the next Commissioner's meeting.
As for the late archery season, around here it goes to December 31st, and I see many good GMU's open on the eastside until December 15th. Archery hunters have it good no matter how you look at it.
They do your right. But if they keep nickle and diming the dates away like they want it will eventually suck. Give an inch and they take a mile. I know it sounds extreme and too early to see if this is the future, but I hate change. :twocents: Just like anything else in our society. You let someone take little and dont say anything about it what will they do? They will take more. Then its too late. Bowhunters need to stand up and fight for their seasons, if we show no interest in fighting for our dates then they will give them to the groups that have pull.
The late hunts I am talking about are North Central WA. 8 days for late archery? Come on? We use to hunt from Thanksgiving to New Years. But no one said anything about it when they took it away. So now we lose a few more days in September. Then we will lose a few more. It just appears to be a trend. :twocents:
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 02:37:28 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on May 19, 2010, 02:50:07 PM
It is likely that a good reason for some of the reduced archery season is due to the improvements in archery equipment over the years. I could go to a bow shop August 1st with $1000 cash, get a new bow, arrows, broadheads, some lessons, and everything tuned up correctly, and be ready to hunt by September 1st. With a rangefinder I'd be able to take deer out to 50 yards. Archery just isn't as challenging as it used to be, and that is why the seasons will become more restrictive as time goes on.
Thats a good point.
Post by: grundy53 on May 19, 2010, 02:50:46 PM
QuoteYes that might be the case this year and next year, we lose a day because of the way the calandar falls. So why dont we get it open on a set Satuday every year like muzz and rifle? That prevent the "lost day". Keep a set amount of days.
That's a good question. The only reason, I guess, is that it would then have to open in August some years. I don't know why that would be a problem but apparently it is. :dunno: I know other states like Oregon and California have opening dates for archery in August. Maybe that's something that needs to be asked at the next Commissioner's meeting.
As for the late archery season, around here it goes to December 31st, and I see many good GMU's open on the eastside until December 15th. Archery hunters have it good no matter how you look at it.
They do your right. But if they keep nickle and diming the dates away like they want it will eventually suck. Give an inch and they take a mile. I know it sounds extreme and too early to see if this is the future, but I hate change. :twocents: Just like anything else in our society. You let someone take little and dont say anything about it what will they do? They will take more. Then its too late. Bowhunters need to stand up and fight for their seasons, if we show no interest in fighting for our dates then they will give them to the groups that have pull.
The late hunts I am talking about are North Central WA. 8 days for late archery? Come on? We use to hunt from Thanksgiving to New Years. But no one said anything about it when they took it away. So now we lose a few more days in September. Then we will lose a few more. It just appears to be a trend. :twocents:
or maybe cause the mule deer have took such a huge hit the last 5 years ....
Post by: Curly on May 19, 2010, 02:54:05 PM
or maybe cause the mule deer have took such a huge hit the last 5 years ....
And WDFW is trying to save some feed for the wolves.... :o ;)
Post by: grundy53 on May 19, 2010, 02:57:24 PM
or maybe cause the mule deer have took such a huge hit the last 5 years ....
And WDFW is trying to save some feed for the wolves.... :o ;)
that too :'(
Post by: gasman on May 19, 2010, 04:27:32 PM
It is likely that a good reason for some of the reduced archery season is due to the improvements in archery equipment over the years. I could go to a bow shop August 1st with $1000 cash, get a new bow, arrows, broadheads, some lessons, and everything tuned up correctly, and be ready to hunt by September 1st. With a rangefinder I'd be able to take deer out to 50 yards. Archery just isn't as challenging as it used to be, and that is why the seasons will become more restrictive as time goes on.
What a Joke.........
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 04:32:11 PM
Post by: gasman on May 19, 2010, 04:47:08 PM
There is a lot more to archery hunting then spending $1000 and flinging arrows in the woods. The effective range of a bow has not changed that much very the years. Yes they have gotten faster and more accurate, but the effective range is still about the same.
Ignorance will keep us divided :bdid:
Post by: Sumpnneedskillin on May 19, 2010, 04:51:56 PM
QuoteYes that might be the case this year and next year, we lose a day because of the way the calandar falls. So why dont we get it open on a set Satuday every year like muzz and rifle? That prevent the "lost day". Keep a set amount of days.
That's a good question. The only reason, I guess, is that it would then have to open in August some years. I don't know why that would be a problem but apparently it is. :dunno: I know other states like Oregon and California have opening dates for archery in August. Maybe that's something that needs to be asked at the next Commissioner's meeting.
As for the late archery season, around here it goes to December 31st, and I see many good GMU's open on the eastside until December 15th. Archery hunters have it good no matter how you look at it.
San Diego I could bow hunt from Labor Day for about 45 days. First half ended on Sunday, general season started the following Saturday and went for about a month. Second half of bow season started on Saturday and general season ended on Sunday. Bow season continued to the end of the year. For example, this years dates are Bow 4 Sep - 17 Oct, General 23 Oct - 21 Nov, 2nd Half Bow 23 Oct - 31 Dec. If you had a general season tag there are also archery opportunities ie general season guys can bow hunt 4-26 Sep.
Muzzleloading was the end of Dec. There are also some anterless hunts during the general season.
CA is set up into zones similar to GMU's (most cover counties or several counties). Your tag is by zone, archery was anterless or legal buck (2pt, CA doesn't count brow tines), general season guys were legal buck only. You can also get two tags a year.
Archery isn't as challenging as it used to be? You might as well say hunting isn't as challenging as it used to be. Faster, flatter shooting loads, scopes, better optics, lighter gun, ATV's.
Post by: nw_bowhunter on May 19, 2010, 05:00:24 PM
:dunno:
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 05:19:35 PM
I know many archery hunters would agree that technology has made it easier to get into bow hunting. You've got 85% let off bows, release aids, fiber optic sights, rangefinders, peep sights, lighter bows, lighter arrows, faster bows, more forviging bows, etc, etc.
You can't tell me it isn't easier now than it was 20 years ago, or even 10.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on May 19, 2010, 05:23:41 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on May 19, 2010, 05:25:31 PM
I know many archery hunters would agree that technology has made it easier to get into bow hunting. You've got 85% let off bows, release aids, fiber optic sights, rangefinders, peep sights, lighter bows, lighter arrows, faster bows, more forviging bows, etc, etc.
You can't tell me it isn't easier now than it was 20 years ago, or even 10.
Absolutely true.
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 05:25:58 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on May 19, 2010, 05:30:47 PM
Post by: bobcat on May 19, 2010, 05:33:24 PM
Post by: wastickslinger on May 19, 2010, 05:47:19 PM
Most deer and elk are killed at well under 300 yards, and you don't need a rangefinder or anything special to shoot game at distances like that. A 270 or 30-06 back in 1965 would kill just as good as the same thing today.
And my 1997 Martin Firecat at 200FPS kills deer just as dead at 50 yards as my new mathews. So I kinda agree that bows kill the same then as they do now. The issue is that many new bowhunters "THINK" they dont have to prepare as much. That is where the problem lies with new technology. There is a false preception that it is easier.
Post by: Bigshooter on May 19, 2010, 05:52:01 PM
Post by: billythekidrock on May 19, 2010, 05:57:05 PM
And my 1997 Martin Firecat at 200FPS kills deer just as dead at 50 yards as my new mathews. So I kinda agree that bows kill the same then as they do now. The issue is that many new bowhunters "THINK" they dont have to prepare as much. That is where the problem lies with new technology. There is a false preception that it is easier.
yep. You can see that in most of the popular units. Makes me cringe when someone says they (or their friend/son) can shoot an elk at 80 yards. :bash:
Post by: bowhiker on May 23, 2010, 12:16:11 PM