Post by: griz272000 on February 21, 2008, 09:05:06 PM
Post by: Bookworm on February 21, 2008, 09:38:59 PM
Post by: Jerbear on February 21, 2008, 09:40:52 PM
Post by: griz272000 on February 21, 2008, 09:59:38 PM
Post by: griz272000 on February 21, 2008, 10:01:23 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on February 22, 2008, 12:23:47 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 22, 2008, 12:44:50 PM
That's probably why the factory loads don't come in anything less than 150's.
Post by: Krusty on February 22, 2008, 06:24:15 PM
The 125gr Nosler Ballistic Tips I use, have a better BC than the 150gr Power Points (I also use). ;)
Lighter weight doesn't always mean a "smaller" bullet.
Polymer tips and large hollow cavities within the bullet, can combine into a more aerodynamic package, and a more frangible projectile.
Krusty (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpages.prodigy.net%2Frogerlori1%2Femoticons%2Fwave1.gif&hash=a79b2b094946ae3edb92c1d87183753de8213bad)
Post by: Houndhunter on February 22, 2008, 06:37:23 PM
are those 125 grains manfactured? or do you have to hand load them?
Post by: bobcat on February 22, 2008, 06:47:21 PM
Post by: griz272000 on February 22, 2008, 07:08:37 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on February 22, 2008, 07:20:54 PM
Post by: Skycruiser on February 23, 2008, 10:58:36 AM
Of course, they also have the Accelerators which spit a 55 gr. bullet out at a listed 4080 fps. Accuracy with these varies significantly from rifle to rifle. You have to buy a box to see how they shoot in yours. Don't expect MOA.
Post by: Krusty on February 23, 2008, 08:57:56 PM
I met with Ken today, at the WSTA Fur Sale, we'll have something ironed out soon.
It can be hard to light a fire under some of these ol' guys.
Yeah handloads.
Heck save up some brass, and we can help you get a load going.
My brother does custom loading.
Bobcat,
What bullet... is as much dictated by what you want the bullet to do, as it is weight or BC.
While it's true that very few, if not no .30 cal bullet, is going to be "fur friendly" on small game, there are still other good reasons to choose (mid)large caliber firearms for coyotes.
And in many of these instances frangibility, and the energy dump it delivers, is far more desirable than the extreme downrange accuracy and energy provided by low BC bullets.
Night hunting, and in contest hunting, you want "bang flop" performance, as opposed to snowy ground long distance daylight shooting where you might be okay with the penciling through you get from more "solid" bullets and the benefits it lends to hide hunting.
Skycruiser,
The biggest thing about any projectile, when it relates to accuracy, is rate of twist.
And this is the source of many shooters problems with sabot loaded rounds.
Few .30 caliber rifles have twist rates that match the middleweight for caliber 55's.
Handloaders experimenting with sabot loads are finding some brilliant results at the heavy for caliber end of fodder available in .224, nearer 70gr's.
Also reloaders can bring down their velocities a bit from the factory sabot loads, finding accuracy that might have been lost in the extreme speeds that a "22-06" might create.
Once you approach the 4000fps range, accuracy is a much more elusive thing.
I plan on working on sabot loads for the .308 and 30-06, this summer.
Krusty (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpages.prodigy.net%2Frogerlori1%2Femoticons%2Fwave1.gif&hash=a79b2b094946ae3edb92c1d87183753de8213bad)
Post by: griz272000 on February 23, 2008, 11:19:19 PM
Post by: boneaddict on February 24, 2008, 08:15:00 AM
Post by: Skycruiser on February 24, 2008, 09:31:10 AM
Skycruiser,
The biggest thing about any projectile, when it relates to accuracy, is rate of twist. And this is the source of many shooters problems with sabot loaded rounds.
Few .30 caliber rifles have twist rates that match the middleweight for caliber 55's. Handloaders experimenting with sabot loads are finding some brilliant results at the heavy for caliber end of fodder available in .224, nearer 70gr's.
Also reloaders can bring down their velocities a bit from the factory sabot loads, finding accuracy that might have been lost in the extreme speeds that a "22-06" might create. Once you approach the 4000fps range, accuracy is a much more elusive thing.
I plan on working on sabot loads for the .308 and 30-06, this summer.
Thanks for the tip, Krusty. Many years ago I bought a box of Accelerators and put them through my Ruger 77. Accuracy wasn't too bad, about 1.5 - 2.0 inches. Subsequently, I bought a 22.250.
A few years back, I got a second 30-06 with a cut-down stock for my kids to hunt with. I wanted a very low recoil round to get them acclimated to it, so I purchased a bunch of sabots and loaded them up with 55 gr. bullets. The accuracy was abominable, barely staying on the paper at fifty yards. Your idea of trying 70 gr. bullets might be worth a try.
Post by: Krusty on February 24, 2008, 11:50:18 AM
Yeah, think muzzleloader shooting premium jacketed bullets. ;)
The military snipers use a sabot round the S.L.A.P. (sabot light armor piercing), a long pointed .224 tungsten carbide projectile that would tear a barrel up, fired from a .308 case.
Right now sabots are available in .30 cal, this means with the proper equipment you can load .224's into any of 'em.
Skycruiser,
You're welcome. If you can't tell it's a subject that fully interests me.
If you have a gun that grouped the Accelerators under two inches, that's pretty good (on average).
Did they print anywhere near your standard load?
To me that's almost always the deciding factor for choosing each of more than one weight.
Like right now I have chosen the 150 Power Points and the Nosler 125's because they print so closely together (even though the 165gr Swift A-Frames outperform the Power Points).
With the BDC reticle in my Nikon Prostaff I use the crosshair to put the 125 one half inch high at 100 yards, the same point of aim puts the 150's that same amount low.
I haven't tested it beyond 200 yards, but it should keep both loads inside the circles to 275-300... about where my own "lethal shooting range" becomes less than reliable (especially on small game sized targets, that I really care if I miss), as do the variant ballistics of each particular rifle/chambering upon which the scope sits.
I haven't had the rifle for 6 months, or the scope for one, so I hope to work my range out a good ways yet. ;)
In fact, I'm headed for the range as soon as my brother gets here.
*Edit, oops missed the second part...
The biggest thing you can do to improve accuracy in handloading sabots is to get proper and consistent seating of the bullets in the sabots.
There's a bullet seating tool that uses a cup that holds the sabot as you press the bullet in with a certain amount of crush "forming" of the sabot, and a neck tool that allows you to push the bullet/sabot package in without shaving or otherwise damaging it.
The back of a sabot just like the base of a bullet needs to be square, and all there, when the bullet reaches the crown (which also needs to be clean and square).
Areas shaved and leaking, small nicks or scratches can be "attacked" by heat, eating away at the sabot.
Lemme dig around in my bookmarks later, and I'll see if I can find you some links.
Someday... they are going to ban lead projectiles, like they have done down south, and solid copper bullets, sabots, and a couple other "viable alternatives" where part of the reason, and will be part of the solution.
I see a wave coming, and I'm gonna start paddling now, so I'm ready to catch it when it gets here.
Krusty (https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fpages.prodigy.net%2Frogerlori1%2Femoticons%2Fwave1.gif&hash=a79b2b094946ae3edb92c1d87183753de8213bad)