Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: USAFpj on May 30, 2010, 01:54:53 PM

Title: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: USAFpj on May 30, 2010, 01:54:53 PM: I have been researching bino's for a tremendous amount of time recently. I have read everyone's review in the price range of $500-$1500, and am interested in the Vortex Razor line and the Swarovski's SLC as well. But what I haven't seen is exactly why I need a better pair at that low light level 15min before sunup and sundown. Many have said that a difference could not be seen until almost dark, and that the glasses had to be stacked on one another. What is the point of being able to see for that last minute of light, or is it that the ability of those better glasses to see into the dark shadows of the trees to pick apart the animals from the brush? Also, I currently have Zeiss German military optics in 8x30, for Westside elk, are most going with 10x42's these days?
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: sako223 on May 30, 2010, 02:12:58 PM: In general many animals will move early/late in the day. Often it will be good glass that will pick them up, whether it be opening morning or bedding them. People are always stating "as good as" when comparing price. In good light some will compare in small ways.
There are other factors to consider. By dividing the number(like 7x35) you get an exit pupil of 5 which will match your eyes and give a bright picture. 10x 28 will only give 2.8 and not so bright. Aging eyes are different.
10 power and above will magnify hand shake especially if your hiking/climbing.
Good glass will give less eye strain allowing better and longer scanning.
8-8.5x42 is a very good stable bright choice. Even though I have 10x42 Leica they are wonderful but show a litle shake once in a while.
Buying good glass will save you money in the long run, plus you get to enjoy the benefits the whole time.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: Bob33 on May 30, 2010, 02:20:16 PM: At 15 minutes before sunrise you could have already been hunting for 15 minutes, and locating animals for much longer.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: Bigshooter on May 30, 2010, 02:27:55 PM: I know a lot of people don't understand good glass. I started with a pair of redfield 10x50's. Loved them. But my dad talked me into buying a pair of 10x42 wind river olympics. When I first got them I didn't think that I could really tell that big of difference between them. But after a month of looking through nothing but the wind rivers I looked through the redfields and was in shock at how crappy the redfields were. Couple years after I bought the wind rivers I bought some gold rings. Same thing didn't think they were any better than the wind rivers but after a month looked through the wind rivers again and couldn't believe the difference. The next year I bought a pair of swarovski 10x50's slc's. Again it was the same thing. Couple years later I bought a pair of 10x42's swarovski el's. And it wasn't a big difference but it there was a difference. My point is until you look through good glass for a while you have no idea want you're missing. And I can't explain it to you.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: addicted on May 30, 2010, 02:43:09 PM: i do a good amount of night hunting and many of my hunting buddies doing the same thing kept preaching good optics. i just figured it was because they were old since i was seeing just as many animals as them and it seemed fairly easy enough for me to pick out animals in moonlight however, my wife purchased some good glass for me last month and the difference is quite notable. I went from a pair of bushnel 10x42's to a pair of minox BL 8x56BR's and i have been able to pick out several animals that i believe would have likely gone un noticed otherwise. during the daytime the difference is like watching a high tech movie in that new fangaled HD movie crap. i can pick out details that i didnt even know existed. :chuckle:
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: MikeWalking on May 30, 2010, 10:14:06 PM: One thing you get at the upper end is Phase Correction and better levels of it. What it does is deliver color to your eye more accurately. Optics without it can blur shades, that brown deer may look the same shade as the brown brush around it. Quality phase correction will keep the slight differances defined, you'll see more. Plus fully multi coated optics will deliver more light.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: Copperwood on May 30, 2010, 11:45:41 PM: Quote from: Bigshooter on May 30, 2010, 02:27:55 PM
I know a lot of people don't understand good glass. I started with a pair of redfield 10x50's. Loved them. But my dad talked me into buying a pair of 10x42 wind river olympics. When I first got them I didn't think that I could really tell that big of difference between them. But after a month of looking through nothing but the wind rivers I looked through the redfields and was in shock at how crappy the redfields were. Couple years after I bought the wind rivers I bought some gold rings. Same thing didn't think they were any better than the wind rivers but after a month looked through the wind rivers again and couldn't believe the difference. The next year I bought a pair of swarovski 10x50's slc's. Again it was the same thing. Couple years later I bought a pair of 10x42's swarovski el's. And it wasn't a big difference but it there was a difference. My point is until you look through good glass for a while you have no idea want you're missing. And I can't explain it to you.

Hit the nail on the head. In the afternoon with the sun out you won't notice the difference between the $100 pair and the $1500 pair. But you will in the morning and the evening when it counts.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: USAFpj on May 31, 2010, 09:03:05 AM: Quote
But you will in the morning and the evening when it counts.

This is the part that confuses me, especially the evening part. If I'm an archer and can see the animals clearly with the binos an extra 15 minutes at sundown, I still won't be able to see them with my naked eye and be able to maneuver for a shot :dunno:. Picking out that animal and being able to get a rifle shot I understand, but the extra $1K for an extra 15min is rough to swallow. Thanks for everyone's patience as you break the bino issue down for yet another guy. I'm looking at getting a set of used leica Ultravid BR 8x42's, but still debating if I truly 'need' that kind of glass...
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: Bob33 on May 31, 2010, 09:14:10 AM: Your point is well taken, and you should not be attempting a shot where you cannot clearly see the animal. However, binoculars may allow you to see animals that you might not see with your naked eye, but once you get closer you will.

Also, in the morning it's the opposite with light increasing: if you see something through binoculars first, you can stalk the animal and wait for daylight.

I consider binoculars one of my most important pieces of gear.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: rasbo on May 31, 2010, 09:20:22 AM: for this side I carry 8x42 leupolds and feel naked without them..
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: MikeWalking on May 31, 2010, 09:22:34 AM: Quote
Your point is well taken, and you should not be attempting a shot where you cannot clearly see the animal. However, binoculars may allow you to see animals that you might not see with your naked eye, but once you get closer you will.

Also, in the morning it's the opposite with light increasing: if you see something through binoculars first, you can stalk the animal and wait for daylight.

I consider binoculars one of my most important pieces of gear.

You may really appreciate the higher end Binos for scouting and general wildlife viewing too. Spend enough to get a Fully Multi Coated model with Phase Correction. You wont need to spend a Grand to do that. Aside from a little extra time at the end of the day you'll see more during the day.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: dreamunelk on May 31, 2010, 09:37:50 AM: Buy the best you can afford. I use them for work all the time and just can not stress enough the importance of good optics. Being able to see in low light is a must. If you are hunting B.T. s. in thick areas and it is overcast you will see the difference. Go to a popular birding area and see the binos they use. There is a reason, to identify many species you have to be able to see very small details. Several years ago while elk hunting with some buddy's we were sitting on a landing arguing over a stump that look like an elk butt. Distance I am not sure, but it was a ways off. I was the one arguing it was an elk bedded down. I could see the hair with my stieners they could not. I one the argument when it got up. Same power just clearer picture. Steiners and leopold would be the low end with ziese and swavorski preferred. Sorry about the spelling!
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: Bob33 on May 31, 2010, 10:13:19 AM: Aside from low light performance, you will appreciate better quality optics during the day as well. Try glassing for an hour or two through cheap binoculars, then do the same through quality binoculars.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on May 31, 2010, 04:25:30 PM: I bought a pair of cabelas roof prism 10X42 and i can pick out that extra point on a bull now that i couldn't with my nikon 8x40's. They are not top of the line but they work for what i need them for. 1500 for binos is a tough pill to swallow.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: halflife65 on May 31, 2010, 06:34:09 PM: $1500 is tough to spend on binos. However, when I finally upgraded from Leupolds (good) to Swarovskis (great), I kicked myself for waiting so long. Like someone mentioned, even in the middle of the day, they are better - less strain on the eyes, clear from edge to edge, easier to go from bright sunlight and peek into shadows under trees and brush.

I bought those Leupys in the early 90s. So, I figure 15 to 20 years out of my glass and the price per year is greatly reduced. $1500 over 20 years is only $75/year.

Like any toy, buy them in cash so that you're not paying any interest on stuff. I suppose I could upgrade my spotter today if I wanted to use a credit card, but I refuse to do that.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: sako223 on May 31, 2010, 06:58:07 PM: a few years ago when I finally wised up to purchase better binos, I researched it heavily. At that time the 8x42 Leica was one of the highest rated binos for birders. Not only for clarity and light but steadiness. After handling many pairs side by side I agreed. The 8.5x42 Swaro were my second choice at that time.
Then I stumbled onto 10x42 Leica and couldn't resist the deal. The Leica is a bit heavier but the pivot seems a little beefier than the Swaro. not knocking Swaro just comparing.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: WDFW-SUX on May 31, 2010, 07:18:06 PM: Id just use your X-RAY vision PJ... ;)

Low light and eye fatigue are the issues that drove me into the 10x42 EL's.... I hunt westside archery elk and the 10x42 is preferable to the 8x42. It really comes down to preference..my pard uses 10x42 leupold gold rings and they are just as good as my swaros 95% of the time.

I can use my swaro's in the middle of the night to spot elk in dark fields though :chuckle:

Quote
see into the dark shadows of the trees to pick apart the animals from the brush?

Yes it does make a difference in that scenario... especially if you are in a sunny spot looking onto the dark. Another one of my pards uses Stiner glass and missed deer in the shadows last year. I guess it just depends on if you care about missing a critter every now and then.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: USAFpj on May 31, 2010, 08:54:37 PM: Hooh boy, just when I'm thinking about them Ultravid 8x42's, now you got me thinking about the 10x42's :bash:
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: Bob33 on May 31, 2010, 09:04:12 PM: Quote from: USAFpj on May 31, 2010, 08:54:37 PM
Hooh boy, just when I'm thinking about them Ultravid 8x42's, now you got me thinking about the 10x42's :bash:
They are both great binoculars, and each has advantages and disadvantages. If you asked 100 hunters that owned both, you'd probably get close to a 50/50 split. Personally, I give a slight edge to 10x but others like 8x. You'd love either.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: WDFW-SUX on June 01, 2010, 06:59:47 AM: Seriously its a personal preference thing.. If it works for you go with it.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: Wild Bill on June 01, 2010, 09:05:56 AM: Well, You could just drag me along, and I'll spot em all for ya! (again) :chuckle:
Okay, okay just kidding. Im with ya hoss, been thinking about the swarvo's alot, but the ol lady may send me to your house for good!
I would really say this. Good knocks are a must if you use em a lot. I know dudes who have swarvo's and the likes, and my 12x50 Gold rings spot 100 to their 1. Why? I glass daylight to dark. If I can only see 10 ft in the brush I still use em... In the open, still use em. Dont matter where or what terrain... Sooo, I could justify the 1K for the knocks....
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: USAFpj on June 01, 2010, 05:02:18 PM: 12x50, huh? So that's why you hang by my side; you need me to help hold them things up in the air...
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: whacker1 on June 01, 2010, 05:59:47 PM: the 15 minutes of light when you can see that it is a buck vs a doe because of the good binoculars whether it be in the morning to know that it is time to start the stalk or whether it be at dusk and you bed down a doe by accident for the morning stalk vs. looking for the next buck.

A lot can happen in 15 minutes whether it be in the morning or in the evening; The goal is to be able to see it.

I upgraded this time last year from Steiner Big Horn 9 x 40's to the Zen Ray ED 10x43 and couldn't be happier. Are they Swaro's - no
But I bet they hang with the leupold gold ring and the Vortex you mentioned. I use them a lot more and have picked up a couple animals I would normally have missed due to color and clarity.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: finnman on June 02, 2010, 11:27:34 AM: Buy the best you can afford.
The problem is unless someone you know has a pair, you can't test them out in the early light of day.
I have a pair of Swarovski 8x30's my wife bought for me 12 years ago. I bought her a pair of Bushnell Elite 8x42 with Rainguard, there is no visible difference in the early morning or evenings. They are about $400 less and have a lifetime warranty.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: Wild Bill on June 02, 2010, 03:40:43 PM: Quote from: USAFpj on June 01, 2010, 05:02:18 PM
12x50, huh? So that's why you hang by my side; you need me to help hold them things up in the air...
:chuckle: :chuckle: lol.... See, i'm not dumb...
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: MtnMuley on June 02, 2010, 04:17:48 PM: Eye fatigue is critical to me. Some days I spend 8-10 hours glassing. At the end of the day, I have no eye fatigue, and to that I credit Swaro. :twocents:
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: lilswab on June 03, 2010, 06:36:42 AM: In my group of hunting buddies a few of us have invested in Swarovki Optics. To this day we have never looked back. :IBCOOL: Seriously the best thing in my hunting gear.

the non-swarovki guys "its too dark for my Nikons, can you see anything with your SLCs?"
Me, "ya, I just finished scanning the whole hillside, there are a few does, no bucks, lets move on!"

This is a daily thing when I'm hunting with my Swarovki 10x42 SLC binoculars. I get a good 30 mins to glass before a resonably priced pair can even see clearly. This is a HUGE advantage. I glass like a mad man. That is my style. I live by it. So the huge expense is easier for my to swallow since I use them so much. Less eye fatigue + super clear = hunt longer and harder.
Title: Re: Advantage of better binoculars
Post by: Blsum on June 03, 2010, 10:43:27 PM: Quote from: lilswab on June 03, 2010, 06:36:42 AM

the non-swarovki guys "its too dark for my Nikons, can you see anything with your SLCs?"
Me, "ya, I just finished scanning the whole hillside, there are a few does, no bucks, lets move on!"

:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: I know who your talking about. I just wish I could afford a pair as good as he's got. Let alone yours.