Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bow Hunting => Topic started by: GregMcFadden on June 09, 2010, 10:03:34 PM

Title: paper tuning
Post by: GregMcFadden on June 09, 2010, 10:03:34 PM: How much effort do you folks put into paper tuning,e.g. when is enough, enough? This is the first time I have gone through the trouble of doing most of the setup (that which does not require a press) myself, and I have the bow shooting so that on average the tail end of the arrow at ~5 yards is around 1/16 of an inch above (as best I can tell by drawing circle around the tears) above the tip. deviation is on that order, shot to shot. I still need to get back out to the range for some longer distance shooting to see if this tuning helps any (when I started, the tail was hitting about 1/2 inch high and 1/2 inch to the right)....
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: Lowedog on June 09, 2010, 10:12:18 PM: I like to have a perfect bullet hole. Also you should be closer to the paper. More like 6 feet. At 5 yards the vanes have had time to start correcting flight.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: Old Dog on June 09, 2010, 10:13:29 PM: The real test is whether it will shoot broadheads well. Try this link. Some of the info is dated, but the tuning is still accurate. I think it may help.
http://www.eastonarchery.com/pdf/tuning_guide.pdf (http://www.eastonarchery.com/pdf/tuning_guide.pdf)
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: GregMcFadden on June 09, 2010, 10:25:06 PM: I'll re set up at 5 feet or so and try again. should be interesting

thanks!
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: Todd_ID on June 09, 2010, 10:53:56 PM: Many bows won't shoot their best with a perfect bullet hole tear in the paper once you put a broadhead on. I use the paper tuning as a starting point and try to get within 1/8-1/4" tears and call it good. Then I work on broadhead tuning for my hunting bow; once the broadheads and field points come together in their grouping, then the bow is as in-tune as it can get, and all I've got to do is set the pin gaps. For my target bow I'll do a Modified French Tuning double-checked with a walkback tuning session.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: mrmorton on June 09, 2010, 11:07:53 PM: i have had perfect success with bare shaft paper tuning at about 5 feet until it is a perfect hole, then puting an extreme helical on my arrow with whatever vane im using. then i can put any broadhead on that passes the spin test and shoot within about an inch of my field points but every broadhead shot is dead on. i always cut vanes if i dont spread out my shots.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 10, 2010, 08:00:21 AM: Quote from: Todd_ID on June 09, 2010, 10:53:56 PM
Many bows won't shoot their best with a perfect bullet hole tear in the paper once you put a broadhead on. I use the paper tuning as a starting point and try to get within 1/8-1/4" tears and call it good. Then I work on broadhead tuning for my hunting bow; once the broadheads and field points come together in their grouping, then the bow is as in-tune as it can get, and all I've got to do is set the pin gaps. For my target bow I'll do a Modified French Tuning double-checked with a walkback tuning session.

spot on...... Todd... when my bows are tuned to shoot there best...I get a 10 O-clock tear.
I never START with paper on MY bows I set the nock point and then French tune...after that I will group tune the nock point.
I track all my shots
the 1st pic is 36 arrows at 60yards.
the 2nd is 36 arrows at 60 yards after a SLIGHT movement of the nock point
the 3rd is 40 arrows at 70 yards
you have to make notes to bad shots on wind....as you can see when I get lazy I start to collapse on the shot and I get arrows out the right.
when you get the bow tuned good its all down to form
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: whacker1 on June 10, 2010, 08:13:32 AM: for the novice (me) - would you explain modified french tune and walkback tuning session?
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: Todd_ID on June 10, 2010, 05:52:48 PM: Quote from: whacker1 on June 10, 2010, 08:13:32 AM
for the novice (me) - would you explain modified french tune and walkback tuning session?

I'll see if I can put it into words.

Modified French Tuning:

This sets the rest windage only and the sight block windage only, but it almost always makes them perfect. xXx's group tuning will set the rest elevation (or more properly, the nock point location).

From 9' away, shoot at a true vertical line (I use my laser level)
Move only the windage of the sight until you hit the line on the money a couple times; where you hit up and down on the line doesn't matter, only that you hit the line.
Move back to 10 yards and shoot again
Move only the rest windage until you hit the line (Left miss means move rest right and vice versa)
Once you're hitting the line at 10 yards move back up to 9' and move only the rest until you hit the line
Move back to 10 yards and move only the rest until you hit the line
Repeat until you hit the line at both distances without moving anything
You've got perfect alignment with rest, sight windage, and centershot.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: Todd_ID on June 10, 2010, 06:00:30 PM: Walkback tuning allows you to set/check your centershot location at different ranges.

Shoot 2 shots from 20 yards at a point near the top of the target
Shoot 2-3 shots from 30 yards at the same point using your 20 yard pin
Shoot 3 shots from 40 yards at the same dot using your 20 yard pin
Your resulting pattern will be dead vertical (I) if your rest is in the proper location
A / pattern means the rest is set too far to the left, move 1/32" right and shoot all groups again
A \ pattern means the rest is set too far to the right; move 1/32" left and shoot all groups again

After a couple times through this you will get the I pattern, and your rest is set properly.
If the I is in line with the dot you shot at, then your sight block windage is correct
If the pattern is to the left of the dot, then move the sight frame left and re-shoot.
If the pattern is to the right of the dot, then move the sight frame to the right and re-shoot.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: GregMcFadden on June 10, 2010, 06:47:18 PM: I was planning on walkback tuning next (when I get a chance to get to the range and have a distance further than 10 yards), but so far I rechecked the paper at ~5 feet and they are bullet holes every time... so we will see.

thanks all

_Greg
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: Todd_ID on June 10, 2010, 07:13:58 PM: Greg,
The Modified French Tuning is perfect for those that only have 10 yards to work with: like a backyard or apartment complex yard. In fact, I think it "Modified" for this very reason. The normal French Tuning is done at 4 yards and 60 yards (or wherever a long range pin hits at close and long ranges), but the process is the exact same. French tuning is good, but you've got to be a great shooter to get any meaningful feedback at 60 or 70 yards, but any of us can get darn close to a line at 10 yards and be able to repeat it. Maybe give the modified version a try; at least it gives you a reason to shoot in the backyard where you don't have 100 yards to play with.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: GregMcFadden on June 10, 2010, 08:00:41 PM: I might just do that. (not that I need a reason to go to the back yard and shoot, I shoot 20-40 arrows a day between getting home from work and dinner, I find it relaxing, most days)

thanks
greg
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 10, 2010, 10:29:38 PM: you can do it at 4 yards and 40 yards ...Mon. on my day off, I will take some Pics on how to do the walk back tune..
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: dreamingbig on June 11, 2010, 05:49:12 AM: Todd, thanks for the modified french tuning lesson. That is some great information; I haven't tried that approach yet but I will on my next set up.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: whacker1 on June 11, 2010, 07:57:08 AM: Yes, Thanks for the explanation.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: GregMcFadden on June 11, 2010, 12:03:33 PM: How does french tuning work with a hind sight or other non peep based sight... I can see how it would converge with the peep to getting everything in line, but I do not see how it can always do that with the peepless sight setups where the line of the sight and the line of the arrow do not necessarily converge at the same point during the entire tuning process... I probably am missing something, but I figure it is worth asking.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: Todd_ID on June 11, 2010, 07:25:53 PM: Quote from: GregMcFadden on June 11, 2010, 12:03:33 PM
How does french tuning work with a hind sight or other non peep based sight... I can see how it would converge with the peep to getting everything in line, but I do not see how it can always do that with the peepless sight setups where the line of the sight and the line of the arrow do not necessarily converge at the same point during the entire tuning process... I probably am missing something, but I figure it is worth asking.

My No Peep keeps me in the same vertical line at 20 or 80 as long as I don't try to cheat my eye outside the string to get a bit better of a view at the longer distance, and I shoot it either with or without a peep depending on my ideas for the year. That being said, I use the No-Peep for hunting, and I use broadhead tuning for my hunting bow; I can't say for sure that I've changed it since I set it up 5 years ago, nor can I say for sure that I've tried the French Tuning with it. I've always used peeps in my target bows, so that's a different story than your question.

I see your dilemna, but I don't think it would be enough error to throw a Modified French Tuning session out of whack because my bow with the No-Peep and no peep sight hits the same vertical plane as the sight pins. If there is an error, then I'm not a good enough shooter to be able to see it.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: halflife65 on June 11, 2010, 07:48:36 PM: Very good thread - thanks for all the great info.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: GregMcFadden on June 11, 2010, 08:07:55 PM: interesting... I may try it, I may not, it depends on how it shoots as it currently stands. Either way, I'll keep up the thread
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:34:29 PM: Walk Back Tune
The first thing to do is ,If your sight has 1st 2nd and or 3rd axis leveling we need to level the sight. The sight I’m using is the new Black Gold Ascent single pin sight with 1st axis leveling. I level my sight block and then mount my sight , checking the level of the sight bar. Now that my sight is level I can now mount it on the bow. The bow I’m shooting is a 2010 PSE Axe6 set at 75lbs 28” Draw shooting a XX75 2413 arrow at 450 grains shooting 290fps.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:37:16 PM: sight level
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:39:49 PM: move sight to level
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:43:38 PM: Get a peace of cardboard and put some tape on it. Level the line as you put it on the bale
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:46:54 PM: Step up to 4 yards and shoot a arrow at the line.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:50:04 PM: If you are hitting left or right move your sight ONLY tell you are hitting the center of the line.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:53:06 PM: Now move back to 40-60yards I like shooting 40 with my hunting bows and 60 or 80 with my target bows. As you can see my arrows are hitting to the left of the line. I will now move my REST, very little to the right. After moving the rest I now move back to 4 yards and shoot the line making sure I’m still hitting the center of the line if not I move the SIGHT, After hitting the center at 4 yards I move back to 40 yards and shoot some arrows …Keeping notes of BAD shots …. I like to shoot 3 good shots before making any adjustments to my rest.
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:54:51 PM: move the rest
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:56:49 PM: As you can see I’m still on the left side so I will repeat moving my rest to the right very little to the right and the shoot 4 yards and 40 yards. Now I have arrows hitting the center at 4 yards and 40 yards now I will shoot a group at 40 yards
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: xXx Archery on June 13, 2010, 07:59:06 PM: Well it looks like its shooting pretty good …robin hood…. . Great down a arrow
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 13, 2010, 08:09:36 PM: nice right up :tup:
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: tazz on June 13, 2010, 08:21:31 PM: awesome cory thank you for taking the time and showing us you guys rock :llam:
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: sneakyjake on June 13, 2010, 09:30:29 PM: I paper tuned my bow with the new string that just got put on it. I didn't realize that it got that out of wack. I will try to start out every season with a solid tune. I split an arrow on my third shot. I feel a lot more confident going into the broadhead tuning. Are those cedar bales? Anyone know where to get them?
Title: Re: paper tuning
Post by: PacificNWhunter on June 13, 2010, 09:32:23 PM: Awesome write up! I need to find some room to try this out. I can only shoot 15 yards at my house.