Hunting Washington Forum
Community => Advocacy, Agencies, Access => Topic started by: boneaddict on March 04, 2008, 09:24:19 AM
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Lots of discussion on orange. Its the law, but what if it wasn't. What are your thought?
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I would wear it if I was hunting public land but maybe not if I were on private !! :dunno:
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I've heard alot of folks claim that H.O. is only good for allowing Game Wardens to track you in the field. I don't really subscribe to that. I do believe it is safer to have at least some on. My biggest gripe is w/ states taht don't let you were the breakup patterns of H.O. They require so many sq. inches of pure H.O.
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Your always going to have situations to support both sides. Say a guy is shooting at a deer on a hill and a hunter were on a ridge behind the deer and if he was in camo he might not be seen but if he were in flourescent he would and "MAYBE" the guy doing the shooting wouldn't brecause there is a risk he might miss and hit the other hunter in the foreground. I guess since it is that law to wear the 170 inches u would be considered breaking the law. Is this a chance someone wants to take.
Or say you hike way back to your own private little honey hole where you have never seen another hunter. Would you risk it and stay in full camo and not wear the orange? It's each persons own decision. I myself am not going to tell you that you are right or wrong. One shouldn't be able to push their beliefs on another. I say "YOU" make the call and like most things accept responsibility for your actions and possible outcomes.
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I feel safer when I have it on. My nephew who lives in Idaho claims that it's more dangerous since if you are camo'd you won't get shot at but if you are wearing orange you are easily seen and people will shoot at anything that moves. I don't buy that, I think the opposite is true since if a knucklehead is gonna shoot at "anything that moves" he is more likely to see movement and not be able to ID it before he shoots. but it is interesting that mandatory hunter education came along at the same time as hunter orange so which is responsible for saving more lives? educating people or making it easier to see them?
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I'm with robodad on this one. Elk season here on the coast, I'd absolutely be wearing it. Deer hunting the wheat fields around Pullman, probably not.
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I think the poll selections should be: yes, no, or in certain situations.
I do think you are safer when wearing it, but I do think that it should be an individual choice.
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I edited the poll some. I put your Yes and No in, and added that this is public land, so that your choice might be more specific, as certain situations may warrant you don't neccessarily need it around other folks.
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I voted no.
I try not to wear it whenever possible as I feel it makes me more visable and possibly a target, though in a "brown it's down" area I do feel a bit better with it on.
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I went No as well. I think I am better off not being seen. I was in full orange when the guy had me in his scope when he dumped that buck and I was sprayed with blood from it. Didn't seem to help.
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I think the poll selections should be: yes, no, or in certain situations.
I do think you are safer when wearing it, but I do think that it should be an individual choice.
I agree with tlbradford.
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I think a hat should be sufficient--not the 400inches required by law. More often than not, it's the persons HEAD you see before anything else (flash of uncovered skin, eyes, etc).
That being said, I mostly archery hunt so it's not a requirement. ;)
The public vs. private land debate will go on forever as well. A family friend of ours was killed by a hunter IN HIS OWN PARTY in '06 during modern deer season. They were on their own, private farmland to boot. He wasn't wearing hunter orange.
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I think a hat should be sufficient--not the 400inches required by law. More often than not, it's the persons HEAD you see before anything else (flash of uncovered skin, eyes, etc)....
Totally agree.
Why would hunter orange not be required during other rifle seasons anyway? Total bs. If I can't quickly discard the orange, I do not want to wear it.
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Totally agree with Iceman and Bscman.
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I don't wear it because I muzzleload anyway, but won't wear it because I don't like being dictated by the state.
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i dont get why everyone has a complex about this.
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i dont get why everyone has a complex about this.
About wearing orange?
I know for me if I am in camo the guy across the canyon or up on the road does not see me and therefore does not have the chance to "scope me". I know that if I am wearing orange most yahoos will stop to bino or scope if they see another hunter. I don't like being scoped.
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sometimes when someone sees you, they try to footrace you and ruin your whole damn hunt too. No ethics amongst idiots I guess.
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I don't like being "scoped" either but I intern don't like someone shooting a deer I am stalking right near me because they can't see me. So it's situation dependent
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I agree, hence the reason I started archery hunting! no requirement to wear orange, and a lot less people out in the woods. Although, I did read an article about a guy who got shot by another archer because he seen "movement" and thought it was an animal. I guess there are idiots out there either way and you can just never be to safe. But, I am much happier without the orange and as stated above so people can't see you and where your going!
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This is a great point too. As we all hunt in more crowded circumstances, i have seen many times when some dipstick watches me to see where I am headed, and then they move out in front, and let me drive game to them. All due to orange. I also do not like someone knowing where I am in relationship to my vehicle. If I can be seen a quarter mile away in orange, heck, go ahead and break into my truck. If I am in camo, beware.
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I was at full draw on a guy when he came out of the woods at about 20 feet. He was making so damned much noise, I thought he was a feeding bear coming. I imeediately veered away, and even with the movement, he walked right by me and I was standing there.
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Ok how many of you dressed in camo have just sat and watched a fellow hunter walk right by you? I know I have done this on occasion. Even have done the elk call in another hunter like I know alot of you have just to stop calling and watch the guy go by. Once I was on the uphill side of this tree and this guy was comming up the hill. When he got to the tree I said "hows it going"? I thought he was going to piss himself.
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Never had a guy come really close but maybe 50 yards downhill a couple times. Ive seen quite a few navy seal dressed guys who wear the wrong camo in the eastern wa scrub and are as easy to pick out as blaze orange.
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I had on one occasion my buddy John and I were calling and my dad was about 50 yards infront of us and this guy came sneeking up behind us and I spotted him.. we split up quickly about 15 yards apart and cow called softly and the guy came up right next to the tree i was on the other side of, and I signaled to John and he bugled and the guy got all nervous and was looking franticly for the bull, and I reached out and touched the guy and he fell to his knees and about *censored* all over!! it was actually pretty funny and the guy laughed about it after he realized what was going on!
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After being SHOT AT (pre HO days) during General Elk season, I wouldn't be caught DEAD without it!!! :bash:
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One important point, the State requires you to have a vision test everytime you renew your driver's license and to have reasonable good vision, not so with a hunting license. There are some folk's out there with pretty poor eyesight in the woods.
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Iceman, if I'm a quarter mile (400 yards) from my truck and someone thinks they're safe breaking into it, they're going to find out very quickly that is well within my range. (But I understand what you're saying if the distances were longer)
I see a lot of comments about how wearing blaze orange can ruin your hunt, or someone sees where you're going and beats you to your spot or maybe they know where you're at and that gets your truck broken into. All those things would make for a bad day, but I wear blaze orange so I don't get SHOT. Now there are a couple examples here where people were wearing blaze orange and still ended up in a dangerous situation, but by in large you are much safer wearing it. Maybe full camo would keep you hidden from the handful of dip*censored*s out there, but I would much rather be visable to the hundreds of safe hunters that are out there as well.
Just my $.02
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One important point, the State requires you to have a vision test everytime you renew your driver's license and to have reasonable good vision, not so with a hunting license. There are some folk's out there with pretty poor eyesight in the woods.
That is a good point, Dman.
One time, I was out during deer season and an older guy had stopped to have me help show him where to punch his tag if he was lucky enough to shoot a buck. He could not see the numbers on the tag. He said he forgot his glasses. I was thinking that he meant reading glasses and that he could see good enough at distances; but then he didn't see the buck in back of my truck and the fresh blood on my hands until after he had been talking to me for about 10 minutes.
Made me a little nervous to think that this old guy was out there driving around in the woods looking for deer to shoot at. :o
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I hear ya, I wear contacts, but even I know that I would have no business huntng without them, I have a fairly strong correction, but can see 20/20 with lenses. I don't totally feel comfortable hunting with glasses because of the reduced peripheral and keeping them clean.
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I would wear it, as i would feel safer from the idots...BUT...I hate wearing it at times...say...at Elbow Cooley when breakfast starts to do a number on ya...
Trying to find a spot to crap while wearing bright orange is sage brush is humorous. I think if someone scopes me then...they will get more than they bargained for! :IBCOOL:
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Public land I would wear always. To many people out there hunting modern that don't know what they are doing. Private land I wouldn't if I didn't have to.
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Public land I would wear always. To many people out there hunting modern that don't know what they are doing. Private land I wouldn't if I didn't have to.
I've seen just as many idiots outside the modern season. One time I was walking a primary fisherman's road, a gravelled road to the Carbon River and a bowhunter drew on me like I might have been a deer. Total idiot, just because he heard sound he came to full draw. Duck hunting also, I've seen people shoot at thing's they shouldn't have been shooting at, me for one and also the wrong species of waterfowl.
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i like seeing the coasties is there 100% orange suite. I crack up every time i see them during elk season.
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I hunt archery and far away from other people, so I don't have to deal with it. I agree 100% that it should be mandatory during modern and even muzzleloader. (open can of worms here) The better the newer muzzleloaders get the more confidence folks have about shooting longer distances. Some folks cant distinguish between a deer and a human at 200 yds, in the brush without a scope. IMO, any season that is open to firearms capable of being accurate and deadly at 100+ yds should have a safety orange requirement.
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I hunt archery and far away from other people, so I don't have to deal with it. I agree 100% that it should be mandatory during modern and even muzzleloader. (open can of worms here) The better the newer muzzleloaders get the more confidence folks have about shooting longer distances. Some folks cant distinguish between a deer and a human at 200 yds, in the brush without a scope. IMO, any season that is open to firearms capable of being accurate and deadly at 100+ yds should have a safety orange requirement.
I agree.
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>:( Oh yeah??? Well I think they should shorten archery season, move it to right after modern and muzzle, and make all you bowhunters wear pink jammies with frilly trim and bells on your shoes! :ass:
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I dont know about the pink jammies, but I would support a shorter archery season. I know far too many "archers" who use the long seasons as an excuse to take pot shots at critters because if they botch a shot of lose and animal they still have a ton of time to make up for it. These are also the guys who roadhunt for does and fawns with a beer in their lap.
By the way, I usually hunt the late archery whitetail at the end of November-early December (after all you modern and muzzy guys have them scattered) and still do better than most. :ass:
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:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: nicely done iceman
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On the other thread it was suggested hunter's have the option of: blaze hot pink, blaze lime green and blaze yellow. I'll stick with Orange :bs: :bs: :bs: :bs:
I do agree muzzlechoader's have gone from lethal out to around 100 yards 20 years ago to lethal out to 200 yards now, no question they've advanced.
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Dman just so you know that what you see on TV there is in the Midwest with jacketed ballistic tips that are not leagal here in WA. I really doubt anyone here is getting that kind of result with a full lead conical, in fact there was a thread about poor bullet flight & groups with 150 grains of powder and no one was talking about anything over 120 yards or so. I can reach out to about 130 and that's it. If someone is doing 200 without a jacketed ballistic tip they're probably BS-in you, and if not I'd like to see it! Don't confuse what you see on the hunting channel with Washington.
That being said I did wear it this year while hunting for my bull because I was in a unit with modern ... it doesn't bother me to wear it but given the choice I don't.
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Its really great how hikers, berry pickers and mountain bikers who share the same ground at the same time of year are excluded from this dress code. Makes you wonder
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point taken, but I wasn't referring just to Washington hunter's, a lot of us hunt out of State. I've seen Shockey and that whole TC crowd lob lead to near 200, yes it's TV, but I did also see a home video of a guy in the Okanogan that shot a very long ways at a buck with a muzzleloader. If the temptation is there, someone's going to take that shot eventually, I'm sure it happens in Wa. too. No different than modfire guys taking shots over 500 yards who have good accuracy out to 300.
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If the temptation is there, someone's going to take that shot eventually, I'm sure it happens in Wa. too.
Yes that will allways be the case no matter what method is available and boils down to personal ethics and I guess the point of this thread is if you don't trust the ethics of the guy's hunting with your chioce of weapon ... are you wearing orange?
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The better the newer muzzleloaders get the more confidence folks have about shooting longer distances. Some folks cant distinguish between a deer and a human at 200 yds, in the brush without a scope.
Sorry this may be a bit off topic but...
Polarbear It's not just newer muzzleloaders giving idiots the confidence to shoot longer than they should. But there are also just as many archers that can't tell the difference between a doe, fawn or a human at 50 yards and take far too long of shots for their ability so according to your reasoning for muzzloading doesn't this mean your argument should apply to Archery as well? and that they should also be REQUIRED to wear orange? You acually agree to this at one point I know far too many "archers" who use the long seasons as an excuse to take pot shots at critters because if they botch a shot of lose and animal they still have a ton of time to make up for it. These are also the guys who roadhunt for does and fawns with a beer in their lap.
So I am confused by the Elitest Archer attitute and the downer on Muzzleloading.
Tha Muzzleloading seasons have been shortened to almost nil and over the last 10 years there are 1/2 the amount of open units so I'm not really sure how muzzy's are scattering them about and all of the sudden we also have the worst ethics now too! Please enlighten me if I am not reading you right I'm not trying to start a pissin match.
I have hunted all methods and in many states and I personally see more risk's and less ethics in the modern than in the primitive weapon seasons and in case you are confused Muzzleoading is still a primative method with limited range. So again this thread is about weather or not you would wear orange not to bash one method and all it's users.
I think you will find that the largest majority of muzzloader guy's still prefer the close encounter with the game and choose that method for those reasons rather than trying to lob lead at 200 yards.
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I don't like it at all. The worst thing about HO is that it makes it more difficult to avoid OTHER HUNTERS. When they spot you, so many guys just HAVE to come over to talk to you, or worse, yell "HAVE YOU SEEN ANYTHING???"
Tell me this hasn't happened to you.
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M_Ray, I dont know where the hell you got the "elitist archer" b.s. I also have hunted with all 3 weapons. I fail to find where I have singled out or have been "down" on muzz hunters. I think that there are far too many idiots in every weapon category. It wouldnt bother me if the WDFW made it a requirement for all hunters to wear orange. No one will see me where I hunt if I have it on or not so wearing it is not an issue with me. I also support shortening archery seasons, or did you just happen to overlook that little fact? As far as scattering critters, not really, where I hunt most folks are far too lazy or scared to go into the hell hole I hunt so I dont have to worry about the animals being spooked. I just made that statement because it was suggested that the archery seasons be moved to after the modern and muzzy guys have had their first shot at it. Fine by me! As far as ethics, you also happened to overlook where I stated about my distain for slob archers, not just muzzy guys, wait, you used that as part of a quote. Did you not read what you quoted? Yes apparently you read me wrong! I am not against any one particular group of hunters unless that group is slob hunters who cannot follow rules or make idiotic decisions in the field.
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PolarBear this is why I hate the internet get your whiteys out of the bunch ... that's why I posed the question unless I'm readining you wrong I don't want to get into a pissing match ... and then you come out swinging! look this is where the hell I got it ...
By the way, I usually hunt the late archery whitetail at the end of November-early December (after all you modern and muzzy guys have them scattered) and still do better than most.
:ass:
The better the newer muzzleloaders get the more confidence folks have about shooting longer distances. Some folks cant distinguish between a deer and a human at 200 yds, in the brush without a scope.
And I asked because it started to sound like ... and I will say it again " a downer on muzzloaders" that's all I was pointing out that it's not just one method and if you agree with that I just needed a clarification, not an argument can I buy you a :brew: ?
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It's all good. I got a little bent out of shape. It is sometimes hard to get a point across through type without sounding like a *censored* or an insult.
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Sorry about that too ... Were cool 8)
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I wear it, it's the law. In Idaho I don't have to but always seem to have a little. I'll never forget opening day in a canyon out of Pullman glassing a guy with a dandy whitetail buck on the ground, gutted, when someone ripped off a shot at his deer. He was wearing Orange and 5 feet away from it. I wanted to go offer him my TP, but thought twice about it. Not because of fear, I know have precious that stuff is.
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I wear it because I feel safer that way especially if I am going along with a friend during modern firearms. It makes you more visible to others hopefully, but on the other hand if it is easy for people to see you I would think the animals wouldn't have a hard time picking you out either. I bet that there are people out there that have impaired vision that is really bad and they can't see what they are shooting at, you would think that maybe there should be a vision test when you go through hunters ed or something like when you go to get your drivers license. I had a gal that was in one of my classes last year that said her dad stopped rifling hunting because he could not see because of glaucoma, but he switched to archery instead, which really surprised the hell out of me because if your vision is that bad that you can't rifle hunt I don't know how you could hunt with any other weapon.
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As everybody probably knows from the other thread, I'm not a fan of the orange requirement, but I still voted "yes" on this poll, but only because I WOULD wear orange sometimes, if it wasn't the law, but not ALWAYS. I think it's ridiculous having the state tell me what color I must wear, and how many inches. I would like to have the option of only wearing an orange hat sometimes, as I feel that is enough. I also would like to have the option of wearing a raincoat over my orange vest, when the rain really starts coming down. I also want to be able to take off my orange whenever I want, for whatever reason. I always thought that if I did take my orange off, or covered it up with a raincoat, couldn't I just tell the game warden that "no, I'm not hunting right now...I'm just walking around in the woods with a gun." How could they prove I was hunting unless I had actually killed something? After all it's not illegal to walk around in the woods during hunting season. There are hikers and other people out there for whatever reason with no orange on. Oh well. As I said in the previous talk about orange, I will do what I've always done and if I don't want to wear it, I will carry one of those light orange vests in my pocket, and I will be sure to slip it on just before I step out on the road at the end of the day. I know from many years of experience that the road is the only place I am going to see a game warden. As far as I'm concerned the state has no authority to dictate the color of my clothing.
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As far as I'm concerned the state has no authority to dictate the color of my clothing.
What do you mean by "as far as I'm concerned"?
The state does have authority to dictate the color of your clothing based on some RCW that was written for deer, elk, and upland bird hunters.
(As you know, I do agree with you that state shouldn't be dictating that hunters wear blaze orange.)
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As far as I'm concerned the state has no authority to dictate the color of my clothing.
What do you mean by "as far as I'm concerned"?
In my opinion.
It ought to be unconstitutional.
Next thing you know the state will be telling us if we want to hunt we need to wear a helmet and a bullet proof vest. :bash:
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Then dont conform, but dont bitch when your ass gets nailed because you think that you are above the law. Your opinion means nothing when it comes to the law if you dont think so try it out in court which is where you will wind up with an attitude such as that. Laws are to be followed as written and not to be adhered to as you see fit. I love it when I see these dudes getting written up for not wearing orange because they either did not want to wear it or thought that a red, plaid mackinaw was good enough. Try walking in the woods with a rifle during deer season, without orange and tell an officer that you werent hunting and see if he lets you pass. You might not see a game cop in the woods but there are plenty of other eyes that will see you. I'm not a big fan of being told what I can and cannot wear in the woods either, but if it is the law I'm not going to try and skirt around or disregard it.
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Polarbear, like I said...I'm not worried as I've never seen a game warden anywhere but on a road. Besides, 99.9% of the time I am wearing my 400 inches of orange. Only exception might be when it rains and I put a raincoat over my orange vest. Must've kind of struck a nerve with you, huh? If you love orange so much then wear it when you're bow hunting.
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When it becomes law, I will and not bitch about it or be in violation by covering it up. Yeah, you struck a nerve. I cant stand it when folks have a blatant disrespect for the law no matter what or how petty it may seem.
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You know the biggest problem with the stupid orange law? I can't buy any orange clothing that I like. All the good stuff I want to buy only comes in camo. Ever notice that? How many good, quiet, blaze orange rain coats have you seen? If you know of one let me know and you'll see me wearing orange more often.
So what do you prefer, following the law, getting soaked, and risking hypothermia...or wearing a raincoat over that orange vest and staying dry? What would you do?
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I have a fleece blaze/camo (branch pattern) vest that I got from Cabela's that is big enough to fit over any of my raingear, coats, jackets etc. I value my hunting too much to risk even a tiny infraction. You never know what can happen if you get some a-hole game cop that is having a bad day. All it takes is for him to find one thing wrong and you are stuck losing precious hunting time while he gives you the work up or run around. This happened to my cousin and me. We were stopped coming out of the woods (on foot) and my cousin had his orange vest rolled up in his pack because we were almost back to the road and we were sweating our rigging off after hiking several miles of some pretty steep terrain. I had my jacket and shirt in my pack and only had my orange vest on. The cop gave him a ticket and held us up for over 2 hours wasting our time and ruining our evening hunt that we were headed to. From that moment on I decided not to give them any reason to keep me from my hunt.
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There is some debate about Hunter Orange over on another board right now. Most the people on that forum live in a State where orange is not required. They are discussing why HO is not required and such.
I just had to quote this guy. Reminded me of bobcat; especially the last sentence. :chuckle:
my final thoughts: if you pass a hunter orange law. every person that is in the field durring any season that the hunters are required to wear the hunter orange, must also be required to wear the hunter orange. if you want to pass laws for saftey, then it should be an all encompassing saftey issue. if hikers/mushroom pickers/loggers/surveyers/forest service workers/blm/state/grandmas are in the woods, they must also be included in any hunter orange law effecting residents of oregon and hunters. it is pointless to require only kids to wear seat belts, or only hunters to wear hunter orange. if you pass the law, it should cover every person, and the most important people that should be required to wear the hunter orange are the unaware general public, that are sharing the woods durring hunting seasons. here is what i'll be doing if this type of law is passed. i'll have a vest in my pocket, and anytime i'm in an area, where a law officer might see me i'll put it on, when i'm in the brush, back in the pocket it go's.
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C'mon, don't confuse bobcat with Baltz. lol
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I voted yes I'd wear it, but consider this. Not here in the west but east of the Mississippi. One of my childhood friends is a surveyor and during hunting season he hands out fluorescent pink to himself and his employees. Why you might ask? Because the hunter orange where he lives blends in with the fall colors and the pink stands out like a white pea in a black cat's butt.
I hunted with him last fall and he still complies with the state regulations but keeps a swath of pink on his and his son's hat. Let me tell ya, it stands out.
While on the subject of this color requirement consider this. Before I left Alaska a family group with a friend or two were hunting up around Peters Creek. One friend shot another friend for a moose of all things. Fatally I might add. If we were all careful hunters and only shot what we were 150% sure was a legal animal then the color requirement would not be a requirement. It's because of people making mistakes. We are human, not gods or goddesses.
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Dam Miles I've done this but my pack is sort of orange so I hunted. I know if I'd of seen a warden and they were a hard butt I'd of gotten a ticket. Now when I get home I dry all stuff out and within 24 to 36 hours the pack is repacked and set to go with all materials in it for the next foray.
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C'mon, don't confuse bobcat with Baltz. lol
:chuckle: I was just giving him a hard time......I wouldn't ever confuse the two. :P
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Maybe Pope can help with this one. Back in the late 70's or early 80's it ws ruled by a high court, not sure it wan't the Supreme court, that the states did not have the authority to tell you what to wear. In that article, the Washington State Game Dept., stated that they would continue to enforce it, because of the safety factor. I had the article for some time, but can't locate it. But that was the ruling. Myself, I would not be without it. Too many *censored*s out there.
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If it wasn't the law I would not wear hunter orange. I don't think it necessarily keeps you safer as a hunter. I make sure I wear the proper amount of orange everytime I am out and about during the general season, but it has not stopped people from scoping me out and once sending a bullet my way "at a deer". I have found success for blacktails hunting little pockets between high traffic areas and noticed numerous time people seeing me in orange entering the woods and then to return later to hunt and have the place full of little and other crap. This year while hunting up near Mazama I was sitting ontop of a ridge a few miles off the road when I saw two guys hunting down below me at least a 1000 yards off. Well they saw me sitting up there and continued to hike my way, I thought there was no way they would come all the way up especially in my direction. They made it to about 40 yards in-front of me and yelled up "see anything?" needless to say I was pissed, the only funny thing was they were so out of shape I think they rolled back down the hill. I don't think if I was wearing orange they would have saw me.. or felt the need to come and say hi. Just my to cents though.
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i ould where a orange cap anyway
