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Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: H2Ofuzz on July 05, 2010, 09:59:00 PM

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Title: Reloading help
Post by: H2Ofuzz on July 05, 2010, 09:59:00 PM

I am having trouble. I cant get the rounds i re loaded to chamber and if i do it is very tight. I followed the directions to the T i cant figure it out. I am new to reloading so please help. I think its a problem with the re sizing die but not for sure. Thanks for the help

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Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: 300rum on July 05, 2010, 10:03:37 PM

Probably a sizing die issue but we need more info.  What cartridge are your reloading?  Belted/non-belted?  I assume you are using a full length die?  Or, is it a neck sizing die?  Are you reloading new brass or once shot?  What kind of reloader are you using?

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: H2Ofuzz on July 05, 2010, 10:05:23 PM

Using RCBS Full length die. Lee press and RCBS press. 300 WSM once fired Norma and Winchester brass. I am just learning here.

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: Jamieb on July 05, 2010, 10:10:00 PM

Sounds like you need to adjust the sizing die down a little more.

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: 300rum on July 05, 2010, 10:20:00 PM

First I would make sure that the sizing die is turned all the way down to the shell holder when you are on the up stroke, you don't want any room between the shell holder and the sizing die.   Some books say to back it off a hair from touching but this is where I have had a problem like yours.  My own personal thing when resizing rifle brass is that I pull the handle slooooow.  The other thing that you may want to check is your OAL, Over All Length.  

I always had trouble reloading belted cartridges and having them tight in the chamber but never with the beltless.  I believe that the WSM headspaces off the shoulder so you should be o.k. here.  

Are they all difficult to chamber or just some of them?  Were the brass shot in the same chamber or a different one?  

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: H2Ofuzz on July 05, 2010, 10:40:04 PM

All brass was shot from this gun. Not all of them are hard just some. When i load Accubonds none of them will chamber but with Barns TTSX most of them will chamber.

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 05, 2010, 11:39:04 PM

Completely paint the cartridge and bullet of a loaded accubond..

Push it in the chamber, then give it a bit more force with the bolt until its stopped.

Pull the cartridge out. Look for where the binding is by the marks in the removed ink.

That will tell you where the tightness is and give good idea where to start adjusting either the sizing die or the bullet seating die. If all the cases were fireformed in the same rife, (even though you full length resized), then the issue might just be that your bullets are seated out just a tad too long for your rifle's chamber. The shape of the accubond and the TTSX have a different ogive length/position.

Another thing you can do is use a kinetic bullet puller and pull one of the Accubonds. Pour out the powder and try to chamber the empty shell. If it will, then it's most likely your seating depth of the bullets in the case. If it won't, paint it with ink looking for the tight spot. This will tell you how much to adjust your sizing die.

Question... Why do beginning reloaders on this forum seem to start this wonderful hobby by using the absolute most expensive components for their cartridges. Norma Brass?  :yike:  Accubonds and Barnes  :yike:

Suggestion for others reading this... Learn to reload using range pickup Remington or 'whatever' brass, and Remington or other bulk packaged bullets from Cabella's. My local gun shop has Nosler 'seconds' in bulk for less than half the price of premium bullets.

Once you've learned how to reload safely and relatively accurately, then expand to premium components.  Did you learn to ride a bike on a 12" frame with training wheels? Or did you just jump on an 18spd mountain bike and go for it?

I think I got flack for saying such in a post a long time ago, but I've been constructive in the initial response and I'm hoping that I'll at least touch the brain of at least one other person reading here.

-Steve

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: cwuwildcat on July 06, 2010, 12:34:11 AM

 :yeah:

Plus, can you explain what you mean when you say your using both a lee press and a rcbs press?

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: PA BEN on July 06, 2010, 05:34:27 AM

As far as brass he said once fired. New factory ammo. Like me, I had tons of brass that I saved over the years before I started re loading. Back to the subject. I loaded hornady bullets in my .243, I seated them just off the rifling and they where very hard the chamber. I had to keep setting the bullet deeper until they would chamber. I would say O.A.L. My nosler book says to use a sharpy and paint the bullet pinch the fired brass so it will hold the bullet then chamber it. If the bullet stays in the gun push it out with a cleaning rod, you will see where the bullet stopped at the rifling. 

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: Huntbear on July 06, 2010, 06:26:06 AM

H2O

What kind of rifle you shooting?  If  you have a semi auto or lever, or pump, you need small based dies to re-size your cartridge to proper dimensions.

You can bump the shoulder back not quite enough or just a bit to much and they will not chamber either.  Take a set of calipers and measure all the shoulder dimensions and compare them to the specs.  You should find the problem.

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: AWS on July 06, 2010, 07:54:48 AM

First thing I'd do is try and chamber some of your full sized brass before you seat a bullet.  If that chambers easily, then your having a problem with bullet seating if they chamber hard it's with the sizing.

AWS

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: royalbull on July 06, 2010, 03:04:18 PM

look here www.larrywillis.com (http://www.larrywillis.com) or www.varmintal.com (http://www.varmintal.com)

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 06, 2010, 11:53:34 PM

I said, COMPLETELY paint the cartridge with ink. Yes, that means the shoulder and neck. -those points that actually get resized in the die.

Try again. Just as others have alluded to, there's a sizing issue. Everyone is guessing either not setting the shoulder back enough or bullet seating depth. It's a no-brainer. One of the two issues.

Size a case. Try to chamber just the empty case. Let us know.

-Steve

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: PA BEN on July 07, 2010, 09:21:48 AM

At least he has a clean bench :chuckle: I'll never post a picture of mine. :chuckle:

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: bearpaw on July 07, 2010, 09:45:08 AM

You said that some bullets of one type work and another type will never chamber. After you check the other items the guys have mentioned, then try seating your bullets that don't chamber slightly deeper in the catridge and try chambering them again, see if that's the problem. :twocents:

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: H2Ofuzz on July 07, 2010, 10:52:34 AM

Ok here are a couple new pictures the casing on the left is a once fired that was only re sized. On the right its a re load that i did. As you can see both have markings in the same spot. I went a bought another set of die's and it is still doing it. So it must be something that i am doing.
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Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: cwuwildcat on July 07, 2010, 11:05:51 AM

When your resizing, is the empty cartridge going all the way into the resizing die?  If they do, is it leaving a very faint ring, about an 1/8th of an inch above the rim?

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: H2Ofuzz on July 07, 2010, 11:09:33 AM

Yes i am and yes it is. I tried the casings in another gun and same issue so its not a tight chambered gun.

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: WDFW-SUX on July 07, 2010, 11:17:32 AM

if there are dents its from excess lube... i cant tell from the photos :dunno:

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: PA BEN on July 07, 2010, 11:22:14 AM

I don't know why, but my 243 wouldn't chamber my handloaded rounds if I just dropped them in and chambered them. I had to put them in the magazine and let the bolt pick them up and then they would chamber. 

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 07, 2010, 11:28:41 AM

OK, CWU is on one of the tracks I was going to point out. It's tough to tell without standing there looking at what you're doing/ how your dies are set. By the look of the lower end of the case where there's ink stripped, I was thinking that the die is not set deep enough. That usually doesn't make it so the case won't chamber though.

So... here's what happens when full length resizing. The case grows in length. That, pushes the shoulder to be a bit longer about half way through the press stroke. As you near the end of the stroke, the die actually pushes the shoulder back to where it's supposed to be. There's a little brass compression that happens through the whole length of the case.

What I think I see in the photo is just a bump right where the transistion from straight wall to shoulder angle is. That transition should be smooth without bump at all.

Here's what you do with a fresh/fired unprimed case that you haven't resized yet. Make sure it will still fit your chamber. (yeah, I know.. But go with me on this...)  From your current resize die setting, mark two index dots, (one on the die, one on the lock ring), Back your die out three whole turns. Lube a case and resize. Test fit in your chamber. It should chamber, as at this point you're pretty much only necksizing.   If what I think I'm seeing in the photo of the shoulder transition is that you're actually pushing the shoulder back a bit too far, creating a buldge.

We can figure this out... !!!  I'm in and out of the house today but will keep an eye on this thread. Hell, if you're available this evening, we can go through it on the phone.


edit:   Just backing out the die 3 turns is not the answer here. It's the first step to finding out what's set wrong. There will be more steps with that one piece of brass to find the correct die setting.

-Steve

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: uncoolperson on July 07, 2010, 12:40:30 PM

Quote from: 300rum on July 05, 2010, 10:20:00 PM

First I would make sure that the sizing die is turned all the way down to the shell holder when you are on the up stroke.

(sorry if you said you have, I didn't see it)


Sure you have the right shell holder?

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: cwuwildcat on July 07, 2010, 01:13:52 PM

Also, have you taken apart the sizing die?  I'm wondering if the resizing ball inside of it might be loose and doing something funny when extracting the shell.  When I got my set for my 30.06, I stripped it down and the ball and decapping pin were attached by about a turn of a thread and rattled when I shook the die.

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: Rgrady35 on July 07, 2010, 01:35:10 PM

Do those shoulders look funny to you guys?

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: WDFW-SUX on July 07, 2010, 01:47:33 PM

yes

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: AWS on July 07, 2010, 01:49:39 PM

It looks like he's hitting the crimper when seating and setting the neck back slightly expanding the shoulder.

AWS

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on July 07, 2010, 02:09:37 PM

That's why I'll go step by step through the resizing steps, to make sure where the issue is. Either in the resizing phase, or in the bullet seating phase. We'll make sure all the brass, 'resized', chambers, then move to setting up his seating die properly.

It'll be pretty quick if we do it over the phone. 

-Steve

Title: Re: Reloading help
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 07, 2010, 02:13:09 PM

make sure you check your oal on the shell your neck might be a little long and that is causing it to fit tight had that happen a lot in my shot mags and they have 2 be trimmed back lower then book says to fit good and not have a stiff bolt hope this helps