Post by: PA BEN on July 09, 2010, 07:19:22 PM
Post by: littletoes on July 09, 2010, 07:41:25 PM
I'd have to say, not realy knowing the definitive bullet construction, but it may stand to reason that the heavier bullet is also the "tougher" bullet, and could not only stand the velocity better at close range, but also retain more velocity at longer ranges. Remember, weight also is a part of ballistic coeficient.
Post by: Caretaker on July 10, 2010, 12:09:00 AM
Post by: lokidog on July 10, 2010, 01:12:40 AM
Elk, 400+ yards (before rangefinders), 165 gr ballistic tip, 30-06, about 2800fps. Hit a rib behind the shoulder and it looked like a shotgun blast with 00 buck shot. Dropped in its tracks, got up and went 10 yards uphill, turned around and went 15 yards downhill, end of story. No meat wasted, well maybe some rib meat....
Deer, 125 yards, same load. Deer was on a hill, hit neck dead center on back about 6 oinches below skull, broke neck, exit hole was about an inch around under the chin, not much meat wasted.
Sorry I can't compare different weights.
Post by: jackelope on July 10, 2010, 05:58:43 AM
:twocents:
I'll stick with something like a TSX or I'm gonna try some Accubonds this year.
Post by: Ironhead on July 10, 2010, 07:02:36 AM
A bumble bee hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph and pretty much disentegrates, A rock the size of your pinky nail hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph
and chips the window.
A heavier bullet has more mass to hold its self together.
That all being said I shoot 140's and 150's TSX out of a 7mm RUM and have never had a problem.
Post by: PA BEN on July 10, 2010, 07:23:44 AM
my bud shoots 120 grn 7mm NBT's and they come apart and end up all over the inside of the deer everytime. Seems all it takes is a rib hit or a little shoulder to make them grenade.I've been processing my own deer for 36 years. I always have shot factory ammo, Rem. Core-Locks. I shot 180gr out of a 308. Yes, you get shocked meat, but it has never been to bad. I shot a buck in the butt at 60yds w/one and only lost about a fist full of meat, my wife shot a buck w/it at 30yds facing her in the chest, the 180 core-lock ended up in the ham didn't wast much meat at all. I shot a buck at 325yds, the 180gr core-lock entered right in front of the hind leg (quartering away shot), the bullet traveled through the chest and came out in front of off side front leg, didn't wast much meat at all. Then at Wal-Mart one day they had Fed. HI-SHOCK 180gr in 308 real cheep. I stocked up on ammo and shot a buck behind the shoulder w/it at 100yds. The buck dropped like it was shot in the spine. I thought wow I hit him high. When I gutted him he was shot up real good in the chest and I did hit him right behind the shoulder. The bullet came apart and a piece of the bullet took out his spine. I never used them again on game animals. So, now that I'm reloading and using better bullets I was thinking of using the heaver bullets for deer and elk. But, in my 7mm.rem mag. I put out a nosler accuboud at just over 3000fps, a lot faster then a 308. Anyway, I hope you can see what I'm getting at here w/the heaver bullets? This is my own experience's and was trying to prove my theory w/heaver bullets here from people w/more knowledge then myself.
:twocents:
I'll stick with something like a TSX or I'm gonna try some Accubonds this year.
Post by: PA BEN on July 10, 2010, 07:26:51 AM
Here is a good analogy of how light and heavy bullets work.So, with you said here, no mater how good the bullet is built the lighter ones are more likely to come appart and shock more meat.
A bumble bee hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph and pretty much disentegrates, A rock the size of your pinky nail hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph
and chips the window.
A heavier bullet has more mass to hold its self together.
That all being said I shoot 140's and 150's TSX out of a 7mm RUM and have never had a problem.
Post by: byrdman on July 10, 2010, 07:38:58 AM
Here is a good analogy of how light and heavy bullets work.So, with you said here, no mater how good the bullet is built the lighter ones are more likely to come appart and shock more meat.
A bumble bee hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph and pretty much disentegrates, A rock the size of your pinky nail hits the wind shield of a truck going 55 mph
and chips the window.
A heavier bullet has more mass to hold its self together.
That all being said I shoot 140's and 150's TSX out of a 7mm RUM and have never had a problem.
Maybe we should compare a golf ball sized bumble bee to normal size bumble bee?
I would say that the greater mass and volume of the heavier projectile is going to contact much more muscle and do more damage than an identically constructed lighter bullet.
:twocents:
Post by: Bob33 on July 10, 2010, 07:43:22 AM
Bullets like the Barnes TSX, Hornady Interbond, Swift A Frame, and some others are designed to retain close to 100% of their weight. When they hit an animal, they do not shed any of their weight.
It is an endless debate which design is better. However, there is a good case to be made that you can use a lighter bullet weight when using a design intended to retain more weight. In other words, if you shoot a 180 grain Partition, you can expect to have 180 grains going in, and about 130 grains on the other side of the animal. If you shoot the same animal with a 150 grain TSX, you can expect to have 150 grains going in, and 150 grains going out.
Post by: jackelope on July 10, 2010, 07:48:23 AM
you've been processing your deer for more years than I have. I can tell you that every deer he's killed with that 7mag and those NBT's I've processed and every one of them has been full of shrapnel from those bullets. I'm not sure any of them have exited the other side. I use a totally different heavier bullet in a larger caliber so I can't compare my results to his. I wouldn't say we've lost a ton of meat off of his deer and they've all been very very dead....so what's worse? I dunno. It all comes down to where your bullet hits and what makes contact to it on it's way through. I like to go through and through with as much mass as practical so I shoot the TSX 165's out of a couple different .30 cal's. We'll see how the 180 Accubond works out for me hopefully this year. Given it's reviews, I'm pretty sure as long as I do my part it's gonna do it's part. Thats a whole different discussion.
Post by: PA BEN on July 10, 2010, 08:14:43 AM
Post by: Bob33 on July 10, 2010, 08:25:23 AM
They design their bullets to shed weight. They believe shrapnel kills an animal more quickly than a monolithic bullet like the TSX that does not shrapnel.
Post by: PA BEN on July 10, 2010, 08:30:06 AM
Through a Nosler-exclusive bonding process that eliminates voids in the bullet core, AccuBond couples Nosler's traditional copper-alloy jacket with its special lead-alloy core. The result is a bullet that flies true, penetrates deep and retains its weight, without causing extensive barrel fouling. The polymer tip resists deforming and initiates expansion on impact. The jacket base acts as a platform for large diameter mushrooms. Solid Base® boattail configuration for extreme long-range performance. Per 50.
Nosler is making an E tip now.
This lead-free bullet is built on a highly concentric gilding metal frame for superb penetration and weight retention with less fouling than regular copper bullets. A polycarbonate tip prevents deformation in a magazine, boosts aerodynamic efficiency and initiates expansion. The Energy Expansion Cavity™ expands immediately on impact yet retains 95%+ weight for superb penetration. The boattail bullet reduces drag with an efficient flight profile. Per 50.
Post by: Bob33 on July 10, 2010, 08:36:06 AM
http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/Accubond.aspx (http://www.nosler.com/Bullets/Accubond.aspx)
Nosler’s proprietary bonding process eliminates all possibility of component separation resulting in 60-70% weight retention.
It seems that high weight retention for bullets has become the holy grail.
In my experience, bullets that shed weight do kill a bit quicker than monolithic bullets. That said, I prefer bullets with high weight retention for two reasons: (1) I want an exit hole to create a blood trail, and (2) the thought of 30% of the bullet's weight being left in an animal bothers me.
Post by: PA BEN on July 10, 2010, 08:56:04 AM
Post by: Skinnyman on July 10, 2010, 03:10:04 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 10, 2010, 03:41:51 PM
Post by: Huntbear on July 10, 2010, 03:49:41 PM
Post by: ML_Hunter on July 11, 2010, 01:29:42 AM
With your accubond, you should not have to worry much about the bullet coming apart for they should have 98% weight retention.
PS. If you like your Nosler load...buy more bullets! They will be in short supply here shortly. If you haven't heard, google "Nosler Factory"
Post by: ML_Hunter on July 11, 2010, 01:35:12 AM
my bud shoots 120 grn 7mm NBT's and they come apart and end up all over the inside of the deer everytime. Seems all it takes is a rib hit or a little shoulder to make them grenade.I've been processing my own deer for 36 years. I always have shot factory ammo, Rem. Core-Locks. I shot 180gr out of a 308. Yes, you get shocked meat, but it has never been to bad. I shot a buck in the butt at 60yds w/one and only lost about a fist full of meat, my wife shot a buck w/it at 30yds facing her in the chest, the 180 core-lock ended up in the ham didn't wast much meat at all. I shot a buck at 325yds, the 180gr core-lock entered right in front of the hind leg (quartering away shot), the bullet traveled through the chest and came out in front of off side front leg, didn't wast much meat at all. Then at Wal-Mart one day they had Fed. HI-SHOCK 180gr in 308 real cheep. I stocked up on ammo and shot a buck behind the shoulder w/it at 100yds. The buck dropped like it was shot in the spine. I thought wow I hit him high. When I gutted him he was shot up real good in the chest and I did hit him right behind the shoulder. The bullet came apart and a piece of the bullet took out his spine. I never used them again on game animals. So, now that I'm reloading and using better bullets I was thinking of using the heaver bullets for deer and elk. But, in my 7mm.rem mag. I put out a nosler accuboud at just over 3000fps, a lot faster then a 308. Anyway, I hope you can see what I'm getting at here w/the heaver bullets? This is my own experience's and was trying to prove my theory w/heaver bullets here from people w/more knowledge then myself.
:twocents:
I'll stick with something like a TSX or I'm gonna try some Accubonds this year.
I used Federal Ammo one year and had the same thing. I hit a deer at about 40 yards right behind the shoulder, and it looked like i hit him with a bunch of bird shot when i was processing him.
Post by: Jamieb on July 11, 2010, 11:50:19 AM
You need to pick a bullet that shoots well out of your rifle and is designed for the purpose at hand.
Folks complain about bullets like ballistic tips blowing up but most of the time they were pushed beyond the design.
Ballistic tips are desinged for this skinned game(deer and smaller) and muzzle velocities of 2900FPS or less.
No ballistic tip will hold up the close range 7mag velocities. I killed a couple of deer and one bull elk with 150gr ballistic tip out of my 7 mag, it worked but I wont do it again. Now the only ballistic tips I use are 120gr 7mm in my 7mm-08, the 120gr .284 cal. has a thicker jacket then the other weights in .284, made thicker for silhouette shooters.
I use bullets from a few different manufacturers, Speer, Hornady, nosler, and barnes. They're all good.
Post by: Three_Oh_Eight on July 11, 2010, 04:56:19 PM
So, you use the same type of bullet, lets say Nosler Ballistic tip. One in 120gr and one in 150gr. Lets say both bullets are traveling at 2600fps. Here's the question, "is the lighter bullet going to shock more meat or is it the other way around? This is in 7mm-08.
This is a difficult comparison because the 120gr load would probably hit the target at 2600 fps at a longer distance from the muzzle than the 150gr. The 150gr load would be going around 2600 to 2700 from the muzzle while the 120gr would be closer to 3000 at the muzzle. If you were hunting closer ranges, such as the timber, I'd pick the heavier bullet simply because the impact velocity would be closer to the optimal impact speed for expansion for that particular bullet. The 120gr 7mm ballistic tip is great for game such as antelope because its fast and there isn't a lot of need for high weight retention on smaller game and the slower impact velocity at longer ranges will keep the bullet from opening violently.
Why not go with a 140gr Ballistic tip with a MV of 2750 to 2850? Kind of a mix of both worlds. I believe hornady makes a 139gr SST that would also be a good pick. The 120gr Barnes Tipped TSX is a great pick for the 7mm-08 as well.
Post by: PA BEN on July 11, 2010, 06:22:10 PM
Post by: Jamieb on July 11, 2010, 06:39:20 PM
Post by: Three_Oh_Eight on July 13, 2010, 06:00:31 PM
Bullet construction means a lot more then weight.
This is very correct. You can go a couple of different ways. For deer, you don't need a really tough bullet. Especially if you shoot a cartridge that isn't super fast like a 7mm-08. The longer range you plan to shoot, choose a bullet with a thinner jacket/faster expansion. The closer your shots, choose a tougher bullet but don't go overboard. The toughest bullet I'd use is a Tipped TSX out of a 7mm-08 and I'd stick to the 120gr version. For all-around use on deer, it would be pretty hard to beat a 140gr Ballistic Tip, 140gr Sierra GameKing or 139gr Hornady SST. Rumor has it that Federal Fusion 140gr shoots pretty well and its pretty cheap.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 13, 2010, 07:47:38 PM
In my experience, unless you shoot em in the head or neck, you will get some blood shot meat, no matter what bullet you are using. Of course, if you shoot thru the shoulder versus behind it, it will be a lot worse. :chuckle: :bash:
nail on head :chuckle:
Post by: demontang on July 14, 2010, 08:12:44 AM
Post by: Malardman on July 20, 2010, 01:12:46 PM
Post by: NRA4LIFE on July 20, 2010, 01:35:37 PM
Post by: C-Money on July 20, 2010, 01:59:33 PM