Post by: DoubleJ on July 24, 2010, 08:18:41 PM
more "Punch" than a .243
less recoil than a .270
ammunition availability
easy to find rifle for good price ($350 or less, new or used)
I only have experience with a .308 and larger so, I can't figure this out. I'm guessing a 25-06 or a .257 Roberts?
Any ideas?
Probably belongs in the gun forum but, it's for deer hunting, I figured it kind of fit here :)
Post by: lonedave on July 24, 2010, 08:32:42 PM
Dave
Post by: Bulldog on July 24, 2010, 08:43:49 PM
260rem (my current favorite)
or
7mm-08
120-140gr bullets
140 partitions are flat mean as hell outa both of these..
Deer and elk..
Post by: yorketransport on July 24, 2010, 08:58:22 PM
Andrew
Post by: DoubleJ on July 24, 2010, 08:59:58 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on July 24, 2010, 09:01:45 PM
My knee jerk resopnse is a 260 Rem, but there aren't a lot of options for ammo or guns. I've never owned a 270, but I'll bet that a 7mm-08 would have recoil similar to a 270. It shoots a heavier bullet, but burns a little less powder. The 25-06 would be a good option as well. Either caliber comes in in a Stevens model 200 for about $300 new. I actually have Stevens factory barrels in 243, 7mm-08, and 25-06 and they all shoot under MOA. So IMO the Stevens is a good platform at a good price.
Andrew
The stevens 200 is what I was hoping for. My .308 is a stevens 200 and I love it. I wish now it was a 30-06. My understanding is if I had a stevens 200 in 30-06, I could drop in a 25-06 barrel and it would work. Seems like a money saver. But, .308 is what I have :(
Post by: coriantonk on July 24, 2010, 09:11:04 PM
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on July 24, 2010, 09:13:59 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on July 24, 2010, 09:14:06 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on July 24, 2010, 09:19:21 PM
Use the 308 with some downloaded 150 grain bullets, or the barnes 130 grains. Plenty enough for deer, and very little kick. The kid can then grow into it. I started with a 243 when I was ten (friends gun), and dad bought me a 308 when I was 11. Used 130 grain Speers in it for a couple years, then moved up to 165 grain partitions. Same gun killed a moose for my wife last year, with 180 grain bullets (see Other Big Game forum for pics). I'd also say the 7-08 is another good option, you could pick up 120 factory ammo for it, doesn't kick too bad.
I put some 147gn FMJ nato rounds in it this weekend and it was still too much
Post by: Tony 270 on July 24, 2010, 09:45:02 PM
257 Roberts
25-06
260 Rem
6.5 Creedmoor
7mm-08
Post by: DoubleJ on July 24, 2010, 09:56:22 PM
Post by: 1bugman on July 24, 2010, 09:57:55 PM
Post by: Magnum_Willys on July 24, 2010, 10:21:55 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on July 24, 2010, 11:04:19 PM
Post by: high country on July 24, 2010, 11:07:59 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2010, 12:33:27 AM
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx)
They have a 270 load with a 115 grain bullet, and a 308 with a 125 grain bullet. Either one of those would be great for a kid, and as he gets older, bigger, and more experienced, he would have the option of using full power loads.
Post by: DoubleJ on July 25, 2010, 12:35:32 AM
Have you seen the "Managed Recoil" ammunition by Remington?
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx)
They have a 270 load with a 115 grain bullet, and a 308 with a 125 grain bullet. Either one of those would be great for a kid, and as he gets older, bigger, and more experienced, he would have the option of using full power loads.
Can't find the .308 in stock ANYWHERE. Been sold out and on back order since I started looking in Feb.
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2010, 12:43:56 AM
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=683994 (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=683994)
Found an article on it here: http://www.chuckhawks.com/federal_low_recoil.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/federal_low_recoil.htm)
Post by: ICEMAN on July 25, 2010, 05:32:53 AM
Have you seen the "Managed Recoil" ammunition by Remington?
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx)
They have a 270 load with a 115 grain bullet, and a 308 with a 125 grain bullet. Either one of those would be great for a kid, and as he gets older, bigger, and more experienced, he would have the option of using full power loads.
Exactly my thought as well...
Post by: high country on July 25, 2010, 07:07:45 AM
Post by: coachcw on July 25, 2010, 10:03:35 AM
Post by: jdb on July 25, 2010, 10:53:51 AM
Quote from: coachcw link=topic=53843.msg659327#msg659327 .243 just don't hit hard enough , [/quote
I would strongly disagree w/ that staement
Post by: coachcw on July 25, 2010, 12:04:44 PM
Post by: Birdguy on July 25, 2010, 01:26:12 PM
I applaud you for making this as enjoyable as you can for the next generation. It is important that we (as sportsmen) get others into our sport, and the better experience we make it for them the better chances they will want to go again ;).
Post by: Huntbear on July 25, 2010, 01:35:45 PM
Yea, after researching for the last 3 hours, I have decided on a .243. Now, what scope? I want to limit his shooting to 150 yds. and take away a lot of options that will bog him down. Can I get a nice fixed scope for that range?
Out to 150 yds. any good fixed 4x will do the job well.
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2010, 03:25:33 PM
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=174349 (http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=174349)
Post by: Bscman on July 25, 2010, 03:38:21 PM
Harder to find a gun chambered in this round, though.
Nothing wrong with a .243...a very good deer and 'yote round.
Pretty fast, pretty flat, and pretty much the lowest recoil you'll find for "big-game legal" rifles.
We set my lady up with a Howa 1500 and a 3.5-10x40.
She's shooting 85gr Barnes TripleShocks. Sounds a bit light for deer, but it's DARN impressive.
Bullet technology has come a LONG way in recent years...a .243 will do more to deer sized game than most would think--with the right bullet and a well placed shot.
I'd probably consider one of the new redfield 3-9x40's. Inexpensive and good quality...with great looks.
Post by: ML_Hunter on July 25, 2010, 04:57:09 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on July 25, 2010, 05:59:50 PM
Post by: ML_Hunter on July 25, 2010, 06:04:03 PM
Now I'm confused again. Not hard to do really. Now I can't decide between a .243 or learning to reload and making my own 125gn .308 rounds. :dunno:
The .243 Win is a good round for deer...but that's all its good for is deer. You can load your .308 down for less recoil, and then load it up with 180 grain bullets to take any big game animal in North America. I would reload for the .308 Win :twocents:
Post by: DoubleJ on July 25, 2010, 06:05:39 PM
Post by: bobcat on July 25, 2010, 06:07:59 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on July 25, 2010, 06:10:43 PM
Post by: yorketransport on July 25, 2010, 06:40:23 PM
Andrew
Post by: Bob33 on July 25, 2010, 07:27:56 PM
Have you seen the "Managed Recoil" ammunition by Remington?My seven year old son has shot a Tikka T3 3006 (weighs about 7 pounds) with the Remington Managed Recoil ammunition. It is simply amazing. It also kills deer.
http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx (http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/centerfire/managed-recoil/managed-recoil.aspx)
They have a 270 load with a 115 grain bullet, and a 308 with a 125 grain bullet. Either one of those would be great for a kid, and as he gets older, bigger, and more experienced, he would have the option of using full power loads.
Post by: 1bugman on July 25, 2010, 08:02:48 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 25, 2010, 08:56:18 PM
Post by: woodswalker on July 25, 2010, 10:05:58 PM
yeah recoil in with either round should not be a problem. reloading is a great hobby and saves ys money in the long run as well :IBCOOL:
Or you spend the same amount and get to shoot a lot more.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on July 26, 2010, 11:19:05 AM
HOWEVER, If you get a .270 with a good recoil system, you will probably be pleasantly surprised.
As far a manufacturers for the price you mentioned, I bought PathfinderJR a Marlin XS7 in .308 last year. He's 11, and not a big kid (about 70lbs), and he can puts a box of shells through it with no problem. It has a great recoil pad on it, and we are not shooting "reduced recoil" rounds. Recoil systems make all the difference in the world.
If you buy the Marlin, and you go with the 7mm-08, it will be the "XS7" model. If you get it in .270, it will be an "XL7". Not any real difference in the firearm itself, the "S" is for "short action", the "L" is for "long action".
Post by: SCRUBS on July 26, 2010, 11:34:22 AM
Just another option if you haven`t already made your mind up.
Post by: DoubleJ on July 26, 2010, 11:49:46 AM
If you buy a Savage/Stevens in 243, later on down the road you can install a 308 barrel on it. You can swap them out yourself, no gunsmith required.
Just another option if you haven`t already made your mind up.
Please explain more. I have a savage/stevens model 200 in .308 right now. How would I get the .243 barrel?
Post by: DoubleJ on July 26, 2010, 12:20:43 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 26, 2010, 12:24:13 PM
yeah recoil in with either round should not be a problem. reloading is a great hobby and saves ys money in the long run as well :IBCOOL:
Or you spend the same amount and get to shoot a lot more.
that is true as well :chuckle:
Post by: wastickslinger on July 26, 2010, 01:03:31 PM
Post by: 1bugman on July 26, 2010, 01:05:40 PM
Buy the .243 like you planned. Then in a few years step it up to a .270 or 7mm. Then you will have a reason to by a new gun. :chuckle: You have to always be thinking of a way to have to buy a new gun. Never settle for all purpose or convince the wife of an all purpose, you shoot yourself in the foot. Best to let them think that you have to have a new gun for everything. :chuckle: works for me....until she reads this and I get home and all my guns are at the pawn shop.
:yeah: Amen to that
Post by: steen on July 26, 2010, 05:17:42 PM
Post by: high country on July 26, 2010, 05:23:55 PM
Post by: Earshot on July 26, 2010, 11:09:00 PM
Post by: C-Money on July 27, 2010, 06:57:53 AM
Post by: THunt on July 27, 2010, 01:31:40 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on July 27, 2010, 01:38:57 PM
I have shot three deer with my 243 and all went down with in a short distance. My 8 year old daughter shot her first elk last year with a 243 at 180 yard. first shot was a pass through double lung....it went down after about 30 yards. If it is a good shot all you need is the 243, If it is a bad shot then it's a bad shot. In this case a bigger gun might save your hunt but I wouldn't count on it.
Earshot, I am looking for your opinion here and I just have a question; If that elk your daughter shot with her .243 had been hit in the rib (since you had double pass-through, I assume you slipped between both sets of ribs), do you think the .243 would have done enough damage for a clean kill? Elk ribs are pretty stout, I just wonder if that small bullet would come apart on one if it hits it wrong.
again, to be clear, I am not sharp-shooting, just wondering your opinion...
Post by: DoubleJ on July 27, 2010, 02:34:34 PM
If I had a Savage Stevens 200 chambered in the 30-06 and swapped barrels to one chambered in a 338-06, would that go over ok or would some action work be needed?
Post by: Curly on July 27, 2010, 02:49:21 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on July 27, 2010, 03:11:46 PM
Post by: high country on July 27, 2010, 04:48:46 PM
odds are that it would blow hunks of rib into the vitals, and make for a quick death. seen it many time with 22-250 on BIG deer in montana... the only real down side is that they tend to not bleed as much as with biiger calibers.I have shot three deer with my 243 and all went down with in a short distance. My 8 year old daughter shot her first elk last year with a 243 at 180 yard. first shot was a pass through double lung....it went down after about 30 yards. If it is a good shot all you need is the 243, If it is a bad shot then it's a bad shot. In this case a bigger gun might save your hunt but I wouldn't count on it.
Earshot, I am looking for your opinion here and I just have a question; If that elk your daughter shot with her .243 had been hit in the rib (since you had double pass-through, I assume you slipped between both sets of ribs), do you think the .243 would have done enough damage for a clean kill? Elk ribs are pretty stout, I just wonder if that small bullet would come apart on one if it hits it wrong.
again, to be clear, I am not sharp-shooting, just wondering your opinion...
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on July 27, 2010, 08:40:26 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 27, 2010, 08:48:39 PM
Post by: Dan-o on July 27, 2010, 09:32:02 PM
I finally put one on my 7mm mag, and it makes an incredible difference. It took it from pretty darn stout to really really pleasant.
Maybe one would do the same for your kids 308 and then you don't need to buy another rifle ..... unless you want to.
Wish I could remember the brand name of the one I put on a few months ago, but it sure makes a difference to my shoulder.... and my shooting.
Post by: Earshot on July 27, 2010, 10:33:07 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 27, 2010, 10:46:46 PM
Post by: Thenewguy on July 27, 2010, 10:49:14 PM
Post by: high country on July 28, 2010, 05:52:12 AM
Have you considered just getting one of those fancy new recoil pads for your 308?
I finally put one on my 7mm mag, and it makes an incredible difference. It took it from pretty darn stout to really really pleasant.
Maybe one would do the same for your kids 308 and then you don't need to buy another rifle ..... unless you want to.
Wish I could remember the brand name of the one I put on a few months ago, but it sure makes a difference to my shoulder.... and my shooting.
those area good option.....but you need to have a GOOD scope with GOOD eyerelief. kids tend to be creepers on the scope, a squishy pad and a low eye relief scope will make for a bad deal
Post by: GoldTip on July 28, 2010, 07:05:21 AM
Have you considered just getting one of those fancy new recoil pads for your 308?
I finally put one on my 7mm mag, and it makes an incredible difference. It took it from pretty darn stout to really really pleasant.
Maybe one would do the same for your kids 308 and then you don't need to buy another rifle ..... unless you want to.
Wish I could remember the brand name of the one I put on a few months ago, but it sure makes a difference to my shoulder.... and my shooting.
those area good option.....but you need to have a GOOD scope with GOOD eyerelief. kids tend to be creepers on the scope, a squishy pad and a low eye relief scope will make for a bad deal
true enough, but it's a lesson you only need to learn once! :chuckle:
Post by: addicted on July 28, 2010, 07:10:19 AM
the 6.5mm was the round of choice for moose hunting in europe for a long time.
also the legal minimum.
another poke for a good recoil pad,
a poke for a 7mm08 (i never suggest against buying another gone at a responisble oppourtunity) :P
miles is in love with his 6.5 and he's got pictures to go with it. :chuckle: not a bad choice though. i'll get one some day. its on the list, with 2 of everything else that goes bang
i dont see many economy price ranged guns in 6.5 though. tikka's are 500. i dont think you can get a stevens in 6.5. ammo isnt as readily available as it used to be..... so miles tells me lol
Post by: DoubleJ on July 28, 2010, 07:21:06 AM
Post by: Skinnyman on July 28, 2010, 07:26:21 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on July 28, 2010, 09:12:23 AM
Post by: C-Money on July 28, 2010, 12:35:52 PM
Post by: br8kitoff on July 29, 2010, 06:35:04 PM
the pic is my then 9y/o with his first deer shooting a 243
Below is side by side comparison
SBST243A SBST270
SYMBOL OVERVIEW
Cartridge 243 Winchester 270 Winchester
Bullet Wt. Grs. 95 130
Bullet Type Ballistic Silvertip® Ballistic Silvertip®
Barrel Length (in)
Use
VELOCITY IN FEET PER SECOND (fps)
Muzzle 3100 3050
100 2854 2828
200 2626 2618
300 2410 2416
400 2203 2224
500 2007 2040
ENERGY IN FOOT POUNDS (ft-lbs.)
Engmuz 2021 2685
100 1719 2309
200 1455 1978
300 1225 1685
400 1024 1428
500 850 1202
TRAJECTORY (in.)
50 -0.3 -0.2
100 0 0
200 -2.8 -2.8
300 -10.6 -10.8
400 -24.4 -24.7
TRAJECTORY LONG (in.)
100 1.4 1.4
200 0 0
300 -6.4 -6.5
400 -18.9 -18.9
500 -38.4 -38.4
Post by: br8kitoff on July 29, 2010, 06:40:47 PM
Rossi....single shot and it comes in 243, 25-06 and also comes with a shot gun barrel i think 410 or 20G for under 350, i think
Post by: DoubleJ on July 29, 2010, 06:46:03 PM
Post by: SCRUBS on July 29, 2010, 07:01:41 PM
I do think that the 243 would do just fine if it hit a rib I'm not sure that it didn't., I reload and she was shooting premium bullets. As a proud dad I have to post a picture.
That is a great pic, thanks for sharing it.
Post by: br8kitoff on July 29, 2010, 07:49:00 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on July 29, 2010, 07:52:02 PM
zero to hit high is when you have a standard scope with no adjustment knob. so you zero your scope say to 250, then you have to remember that you are xxx high at 100, xxx high at 200 xxx low at 300 and so on.
So, since I have the finger knobs on my scope and know that, if zeroed dead on at 100 yards and I have a 200 yard shot, I'll need to come up 5 clicks, I don't need to use the so many inches high thing, right?
Post by: CampCoffee on July 29, 2010, 08:40:12 PM
Post by: br8kitoff on July 29, 2010, 08:54:19 PM
Post by: Bob33 on July 29, 2010, 09:01:30 PM
Yes, as long as (a) you know the distance is 200 yards, (b) you have the time to turn the scope up 5 clicks, and (c) in all the excitement you remember to.zero to hit high is when you have a standard scope with no adjustment knob. so you zero your scope say to 250, then you have to remember that you are xxx high at 100, xxx high at 200 xxx low at 300 and so on.
So, since I have the finger knobs on my scope and know that, if zeroed dead on at 100 yards and I have a 200 yard shot, I'll need to come up 5 clicks, I don't need to use the so many inches high thing, right?
Leave it zeroed at 200 yards, and you'll be a couple inches high at 100 and a couple inches low at 250. Point and shoot up to 250.
Post by: coachcw on July 29, 2010, 09:05:53 PM
Post by: Earshot on July 29, 2010, 10:52:27 PM
Thanks, She was so excited that she was doing a dance and I was shaking like it was my first animal. I get just as excited about helping her get an animal as I do getting one myself. :tup:I do think that the 243 would do just fine if it hit a rib I'm not sure that it didn't., I reload and she was shooting premium bullets. As a proud dad I have to post a picture.
That is a great pic, thanks for sharing it.
Post by: 44 Flattop on August 01, 2010, 03:30:42 PM
30 30 good under 100yards , I've never grouped with oneI've done lots of target work with different 30WCF's. One once put five 5 shot groups @ 100 yards under 7/8".
As for under 100 yards, with a 4x scope I shot a nice buck at slightly under 300 yards before I ever heard it was a 'short range gun'.......... :chuckle:
44
Post by: DeerThug on August 01, 2010, 07:29:35 PM
Don't get caught up in hype -
Shoot straight shoot often..
Post by: Three_Oh_Eight on August 02, 2010, 06:03:28 PM
Post by: gadwall on August 03, 2010, 09:16:44 PM
Easy answer here!!!
260rem (my current favorite)
or
7mm-08
120-140gr bullets
140 partitions are flat mean as hell outa both of these..
Deer and elk..
I agree :chuckle: :chuckle: Both are good choices. My daughter has shot a .260 for a few years and loves it. I have it loaded down with 100 gr bullets and there is very little recoil. The same can be done with the 7mm-08.
Gadwall
Post by: DoubleJ on August 04, 2010, 10:15:45 AM
I am a 30.06 guy. Tried and true.
Not going to work for an 8 year old.
Where can you get 100gn 7mm-08 rounds without reloading?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 04, 2010, 12:14:10 PM
Post by: huntinhick on August 04, 2010, 01:59:10 PM
if you do a search for chuck hawks they have a table there that shows recoil for most rounds and the rifle it was based on. graybeard outdoors has a forum just for H&Rs and they have a sticky that has the recoil of the H&R rifles in most calibers....
carl
Post by: h20hunter on August 04, 2010, 02:21:10 PM
Post by: huntinhick on August 05, 2010, 07:37:17 PM
Post by: addicted on August 05, 2010, 08:12:49 PM
just a thought. If the stevens ever get back down to 199 like they did last year all bets are off and dad is getting one in 7mm 08 also!
man o man. if they ever do that sale again i'm gonna be buying a few of those suckers. I've bought two now at 289-300$ price range and they are sweet for that price.
Post by: DoubleJ on August 05, 2010, 08:37:38 PM
just a thought. If the stevens ever get back down to 199 like they did last year all bets are off and dad is getting one in 7mm 08 also!
man o man. if they ever do that sale again i'm gonna be buying a few of those suckers. I've bought two now at 289-300$ price range and they are sweet for that price.
Where do you find them for that price?
Post by: Hangfire on August 05, 2010, 11:09:31 PM
Post by: addicted on August 05, 2010, 11:52:45 PM
i bought mine from walmart. last one was about a year ago. i think the 7mm08 was cheaper than the 308. bought the 308 last. both shoot pretty darn good with the heavy trigger. I took some weight off the 308 trigger and it still breaks pretty clean. Its hard to decide what to do with the 308(7mm is the wife's) i was thinking i could either buy a heavy match barrel and other accessories to shoot 1k or i could buy a 338 federal barrel and get it so shoot heavier for bear and such. I'll probably do the 1k set up and buy a sako or kimber in 338fed. dont want to ruin a perfectly good excuse to buy a new gun.Where do you find them for that price?just a thought. If the stevens ever get back down to 199 like they did last year all bets are off and dad is getting one in 7mm 08 also!man o man. if they ever do that sale again i'm gonna be buying a few of those suckers. I've bought two now at 289-300$ price range and they are sweet for that price.
theres a cool caliber you could buy your kid. shot a father in laws kimber 84m 338 fed and it doesnt kick nearly as much as the 308 or 270 or 3006. just a well built gun.
Post by: Redmist on August 06, 2010, 12:32:22 AM
Post by: huntinhick on August 06, 2010, 11:22:31 AM
Post by: DeerThug on August 06, 2010, 09:17:29 PM
Here is a pic of Matthews 08 bull and buck. He shot two times in 08 - in washington that is. One for an elk and one for a buck.
A .243 is a finegun and he has never lost an animal. It has put a bunch of racks on his wall.
Don't get caught up in the hype and spend a bunch of money. Get a good used gun that fits the kid - let him grow into it - provide opportuity and stay out of his way. When Matthew was 10 he fell off of a big rock straight on his back smashing his scope and banged up his gun pretty bad. BUT later that day he shot a two point with it. If you intend for a kid to use a gun - and i mean really use it don't spend at ton. A cheap gun will hunt as good as the most expensive.
Stay away from the hype and do what you think is best for the boy. The main thing is to teach him to hunt and to have good values. When the hunting is slow you can grow the man you want him to be. the caliber of the gun will not matter.
Post by: smitty8202 on August 11, 2010, 10:04:06 AM
Post by: grizzlygibbs on August 16, 2010, 03:41:19 AM
I wish the WDFW would allow us to use the .22-250 again! I would be all over that, although it will probably just leave too many wounded animals!
Post by: DoubleJ on August 16, 2010, 06:45:06 AM
Post by: grizzlygibbs on August 16, 2010, 09:02:29 AM
Post by: DoubleJ on August 16, 2010, 11:36:27 AM