Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bow Hunting => Topic started by: smartazz171 on August 10, 2010, 12:41:59 PM

Title: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: smartazz171 on August 10, 2010, 12:41:59 PM: Ok so My dad is 72 and is hunting with a new bow for elk. It's a Diamond Razors Edge. The max the bow can be adjusted to is 60 lbs. Right now he's shooting @ 50 Lbs. For elk, at no more than 30 yards, is that enough? I've heard anywhere between 50-55lbs for elk on the low side. Wanted everyones :twocents: .

P.S Yes I know with a perfect shot anything can happen, but realistically and ethically speaking...

Thanks, Mike
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 10, 2010, 12:54:14 PM: yes under 30yards with a 50lb bow and a good sharp broadhead he will do just fine. you want to stay away from the shoulder and just put it threw the lungs and he will have a dead elk. i know people that hunt with 50lbs and have killed plenty of elk with there setups.
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: Lowedog on August 10, 2010, 01:07:46 PM: I know of a lot of traditional archers who hunt with 50lb or less draw weight bows.

That bow at 50lbs will generate enough speed and energy to easily pass through an elk at 30yds with a well placed shot. Even beyond 30yds.

What weight arrow is he shooting?
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: croix on August 10, 2010, 01:35:36 PM: my gut tells me that 50 lbs should be adequate, but...

based on that bow's advertised ibo speed and max draw length of 29", if it is set at 50 lbs and the minimum state required arrow weight of 300 grns, i am seeing a calculated ke of about 40 ft-lbs. the rule of thumb (notice i didn't say carved in stone) is about 42-65 ft-lbs of ke for elk.

i'm not trying to start a debate on ke vs arrow speed vs shot placement vs etc. but IMHO i think that bow at 50 lbs may be a little sketchy for elk.
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: hillbilli on August 10, 2010, 02:59:38 PM: take notice of what was said about traditional archers- and note that traditional archers with recurves and longbows at 50lb range kill elk every year, but they typically use cut on contact, usually 2 blade broadhead (like magnus). I'd almost guarantee that his 50lb compound will generate more arrow speed than my 55lb recurve, Id say as long as hes using a traditional style head he'll be fine, but just my opinion.
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on August 10, 2010, 03:20:55 PM: He will be fine at 50... sharp broadhead and well plced shot he will get a poass through. Many longbows and recurves using sharp BH's have rought down many big animals.....
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: Lowedog on August 10, 2010, 03:33:13 PM: Quote from: croix on August 10, 2010, 01:35:36 PM
my gut tells me that 50 lbs should be adequate, but...

based on that bow's advertised ibo speed and max draw length of 29", if it is set at 50 lbs and the minimum state required arrow weight of 300 grns, i am seeing a calculated ke of about 40 ft-lbs. the rule of thumb (notice i didn't say carved in stone) is about 42-65 ft-lbs of ke for elk.

i'm not trying to start a debate on ke vs arrow speed vs shot placement vs etc. but IMHO i think that bow at 50 lbs may be a little sketchy for elk.

Kind of strange how they advertise IBO speed on that bow. Says 308fps @ 29". That would make actual IBO about 318fps. Using those numbers that bow if draw length stays at 29" should push a 400gr arrow at close to 250fps and 55ft lbs which is plenty for elk or moose. I wouldn't go as light as 300grs but it would still be more than enough at 278fps and 51ft lbs.

http://www.backcountrybowhunting.com/articles/calc/ (http://www.backcountrybowhunting.com/articles/calc/)
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: huntnfmly on August 10, 2010, 06:43:39 PM: ted nugent shoots a 50lb girly bow as he calls it watched him kill a yukon moose on tv.and shermane his wife shoots a 40lb bow and kills kudu with that.Your dad will have no problem taking an elk with that bow.Have fun
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: danceswitharrows on August 10, 2010, 07:09:47 PM: No problem :tup:
I also would recommend like some of those before me to use a two blade broadhead as it will help with penetration
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 10, 2010, 10:16:00 PM: If I was shooting 5Olbs I would go with a very heavy arrow to increase momentum and a sharp 2 blade like the stinger or buzzcut. Why do you think nuge shoots them? Those stingers come very sharp out of the package put a lansky or gatco on them and they get scary sharp. I just put a 2" cut on my stomach by grazing myself with the broadhead. I didn't notice it until about a half hour after I did it. "What the hell? Why am I bleeding?" Lol :D
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 10, 2010, 10:35:37 PM: that is a very solid point button nubbs: the best thing i can see to do is add arrow weight. if he is going to only be shooting 30 yards a little more arch will not matter that much. and the increased arrow weight will bost ke out of that bow i am sure unless you went way to heavy. and a good cut on contact with the lower poundage bows is a must! in my mind my wife and brother both shoot around 50lbs and shoot 2 blade buzzcuts with the bleeders. they don't elk hunt but i have seen what a 48 pound bow will do with a buzz cut on a deer at 28 yards.
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: croix on August 11, 2010, 06:55:31 AM: the KE for that bow at 50# draw peaks with an arrow weight of ~365 grns. the KE at that weight is ~1.2 ft-lbs higher than the minimum arrow weight of 300 grns, at a sacrifice of ~21 fps. seems like a fair trade to me. i would probably go for the 365 for a little more impact.
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: croix on August 11, 2010, 07:39:45 AM: Quote from: Lowedog on August 10, 2010, 03:33:13 PM
Quote from: croix on August 10, 2010, 01:35:36 PM
my gut tells me that 50 lbs should be adequate, but...

based on that bow's advertised ibo speed and max draw length of 29", if it is set at 50 lbs and the minimum state required arrow weight of 300 grns, i am seeing a calculated ke of about 40 ft-lbs. the rule of thumb (notice i didn't say carved in stone) is about 42-65 ft-lbs of ke for elk.

i'm not trying to start a debate on ke vs arrow speed vs shot placement vs etc. but IMHO i think that bow at 50 lbs may be a little sketchy for elk.

Kind of strange how they advertise IBO speed on that bow. Says 308fps @ 29". That would make actual IBO about 318fps. Using those numbers that bow if draw length stays at 29" should push a 400gr arrow at close to 250fps and 55ft lbs which is plenty for elk or moose. I wouldn't go as light as 300grs but it would still be more than enough at 278fps and 51ft lbs.

http://www.backcountrybowhunting.com/articles/calc/ (http://www.backcountrybowhunting.com/articles/calc/)

Lowedog - you are absolutely right. I used a bad calculation on arrow weight (essentially double penalized). Also, based on those changes, 400 grns provides the highest KE which is more than enough for elk. Good catch.
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: smartazz171 on August 11, 2010, 11:55:14 AM: Wow thanks for all the info guys, It makes me defiantly feel better. So here is my Archery V-card showing but I don't know much about all the technical weights and what not; only my 2nd year archery. So put me in line If need be. My dad and I both shoot the same set up But I shoot a Bear Game Over at 28in draw at 63lbs. we are both shooting Gold Tip XT hunter 5575 with blazer vanes with 100 grain thunder head broadheads. His draw length is 29 in. Is that a heavy enough set up for him? Or should he shoot a magnus 2 blade as a better option instead of the thunderhead?

Mike
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: LCG on August 11, 2010, 12:16:35 PM: Quote from: smartazz171 on August 11, 2010, 11:55:14 AM
Wow thanks for all the info guys, It makes me defiantly feel better. So here is my Archery V-card showing but I don't know much about all the technical weights and what not; only my 2nd year archery. So put me in line If need be. My dad and I both shoot the same set up But I shoot a Bear Game Over at 28in draw at 63lbs. we are both shooting Gold Tip XT hunter 5575 with blazer vanes with 100 grain thunder head broadheads. His draw length is 29 in. Is that a heavy enough set up for him? Or should he shoot a magnus 2 blade as a better option instead of the thunderhead?

Mike

Head brand is more of a personal preference. For weight you need the actual arrow length not draw length.

Don
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 11, 2010, 12:20:07 PM: its not about brand choice. its about what head will be best for the setup. the 2 blade will use less force to penetrate then the 3 blade thunderhead. also if heavier bone is hit the 2 blade will penetrate better threw it. if it was me i would 100% go to a 2 blade head/ bleeders are o.k. but not use a 3 blade head on any bow under 55lbs.

best thing to do is weight it on a scale to know the weight any pro shop should have one. or a reloader you might know as well.
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: croix on August 11, 2010, 12:27:59 PM: assuming an arrow length of 29" that arrow/broadhead combo should be about 387 grns which is well above the state minimum for 50 lb draw and should have good KE. i can't speak to the choice of 2 blade vs 3 blade, but either setup should be heavy enough.

http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_4.htm (http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_4.htm)
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: LCG on August 11, 2010, 01:44:49 PM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on August 11, 2010, 12:20:07 PM
its not about brand choice.

Broadheads and draw weight are like politics or religion, everyone has their opinion be it right or wrong.:)
My better half shoots a 43lb with a three blade slick tricks. She swares buzcuts are junk but there is no arguing with the elk and dear meat she stacks in the freezer.

Don
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: yajsab on August 11, 2010, 09:47:50 PM: The regs called out 40#. It should be enough to drop a big game animal.
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: smartazz171 on August 12, 2010, 04:24:57 PM: Quote from: croix on August 11, 2010, 12:27:59 PM
assuming an arrow length of 29" that arrow/broadhead combo should be about 387 grns which is well above the state minimum for 50 lb draw and should have good KE. i can't speak to the choice of 2 blade vs 3 blade, but either setup should be heavy enough.

http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_4.htm (http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_4.htm)

Thanks for the link! It's like Archery for dummies (me).

Very informative

Mike
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: croix on August 13, 2010, 06:06:09 AM: Quote from: smartazz171 on August 12, 2010, 04:24:57 PM
Quote from: croix on August 11, 2010, 12:27:59 PM
assuming an arrow length of 29" that arrow/broadhead combo should be about 387 grns which is well above the state minimum for 50 lb draw and should have good KE. i can't speak to the choice of 2 blade vs 3 blade, but either setup should be heavy enough.

http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_4.htm (http://www.huntersfriend.com/carbon_arrows/hunting_arrows_selection_guide_chapter_4.htm)

Thanks for the link! It's like Archery for dummies (me).

Very informative

Mike

that's why I use it :chuckle:
Title: Re: Min. lb for Elk
Post by: Shootmoore on August 13, 2010, 06:25:18 AM: I think it was well covered by others above with good tech info. I'm not a tech guy but I can say from personal experience that a 50 lb bow of any flavor with a good sharp broadhead is plenty good for elk. When I was a little shaver I was shooting 45 to 50 pounds with a old Bear (70's era). The broadheads were old bear 2 blades with a spit shine on the edge for luck. It worked well on several deer and elk. As I grew and started shooting heavier bows the only difference I noticed is the fudge factor increased a bit and the effective range for accuracy increased a bit.

Practice and proper shot choice outweigh the #'s of pull on a bow any day.

Shootmoore