Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bow Hunting => Topic started by: Drifterat on August 12, 2010, 05:25:42 PM

Title: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Drifterat on August 12, 2010, 05:25:42 PM: Has anyone really ever had an officer check your arrow weight while hunting in the field? What do they do break out a digital scale and weigh the arrow, then hook up a draw weight scale and check your bow? How does this go down?
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 12, 2010, 05:46:53 PM: i have not been but know 4 diffrent people that have been check. i am betting by your post you have been reading some of the other posts going on and are maybe a little worried about your setup 8) :chuckle: 3 did not get tickets 1 did. they do have pocket scales that they will use to check bow and arrow weights to make sure you are legal. the law is the law it does not matter what you or i think of the law. but it must be followed or you risk a ticket/losing license etc somthing all should be aware of. its kinda like hunting with a 22 not legal
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Lowedog on August 12, 2010, 06:03:06 PM: That is the first I have ever heard of anyone being checked. I would wager that a good number of archery hunters are clueless to this regulation.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Drifterat on August 12, 2010, 06:12:33 PM: Carp, I figured you'd poop out a post that was questioning my setup. Right out of the gate you ASSume that I shoot light arrows and am worried about getting caught. :bash: Couldn't be farther from the truth. Thanks for questioning my integrity and hunting ethics.

My set up is fine and like I asked earlier I am curious to hear from someone that has had it happen. Not second hand I had a buddy who had a buddy who got checked and yada yada yada...

Checking the draw weight is what really concerns me. Do they draw the bow? Do you? Do you/they nock an arrow? If something malfunctions and the bow dry fires and breaks is the state liable?

I hunted for years with a .44 mag revolver and not once did I ever have an officer want to know if my loads met energy minimums.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: billythekidrock on August 12, 2010, 06:22:51 PM: I have heard of a couple guys getting checked back at the rig.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Special T on August 12, 2010, 10:02:37 PM: I think it is kinda like getting fined for too much tint on your windows... Your can get the ticket but it is dam tough to prove!
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 12, 2010, 10:16:29 PM: so you know me that well and figured i would poop out a post :chuckle: man thats funny right there!

"Not second hand I had a buddy who had a buddy who got checked and yada yada yada..."

now your the one ASSume-ing :chuckle: i said i know 4 diffrent ones. you are poking in the dark with your guess of "buddy second hand yada yada yada!" i was standing next to 3 of them when it happened ;) :P
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on August 13, 2010, 08:57:18 AM: I am curious how they measure bow draw weight? Do They have one of those draw force scales that measure as you draw they bow? Do they have to be calibrated? ( like radar guns etc...). How about the arrow scale? Was it just a random check?
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 13, 2010, 09:04:19 AM: the ones i have been around have a handscale "think it was cabelas brand" it was green they draw the bow with. then they have diffrent arrow scales. one had a digital scale in a little case. the other had a hanging "traditional scale" one time was random the other was because of a phone call about us hunting "ie crazy lady" that had the people i was with checked. most times i don't think they will mess with you. but if they are looking to write a ticket. then they will check about everything they can. or if you are a a$$ and asking for it i am sure they will check ;)
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: whacker1 on August 13, 2010, 09:23:00 AM: gotten checked to make sure that we had #11 or musket caps, not 209 and that we were shooting lead bullets (prior to copper being legal), so I can only assume that they would check arrow weight and draw weight for archers if they so fealt the desire to do so.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on August 13, 2010, 09:41:06 AM: Thanks for the info Carp. It seems to me alot of guys are aware of the law, most pro shops I have been in actually inform customers if they are gonna be using the setup for hunting. But I hear alot of guys are riding right on the wire, just a couple grains over or a pound heavier on draw weight. I wonder if they have any "fudge" factor built in, it would seem contesting a ticket would be fairly easy if they have nothing to prove the scales are accurate, or calibrated on a regular basis. I personally prefer to shoot way heavy arrows to soak up bow noise and energy, increase KE and momentum, cut down on wind drift, and basically blow through their intended target.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 13, 2010, 09:51:57 AM: No prob!!! I like to help as most on here know!!! i agree with your thoughts on the heavy arrow as well. Also yes i bet there is a good chance you could get out of the ticket if you were only under by a few grains or over by a pound or 2. kinda like a radar gun i guess. f you get a ticket for going 1-2 mph over the speed limit. most times i don't think it will stick because of margin of error. but the one guy i was not with,but know very well. that got the ticket was way way under. he shoot almost the same draw weight as me. he shoots 80 i shoot 83 with my normal hunting bow. his arrow should have been 480 grains per the law. but his arrow was only like 375g so he knew it was coming and did not fight it. he got a ticket for it and just paid it from what i understand. he does not like to talk about it :chuckle:
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 13, 2010, 10:00:13 AM: Quote
Checking the draw weight is what really concerns me. Do they draw the bow? Do you? Do you/they nock an arrow? If something malfunctions and the bow dry fires and breaks is the state liable?

I hunted for years with a .44 mag revolver and not once did I ever have an officer want to know if my loads met energy minimums.

Yeah, when they had the minimum energy levels for pistol, I was told by an officer that my 44mag revolver wasn't powerful enough for Elk. Now, it wasn't scientific, but I touched one of my 300grainers off at a small stump 70yds away with iron sights. I asked him if he'd ever seen a 44mag Super Blackhawk recoil that much. He had me repeat my question because his ears were ringing too much from my worked up hot load that smashed that stump and blew out much of the backside.

He said to have a good hunt.

For Bows, I couldn't see why any ethical hunter would want to shoot light arrows on big game. The increased potential of the injured animal getting away would not be worth the risk. Yeah, I know there's been a lot of game taken with the .22 shot to the head, but you're looking at a higher potential of a precision shot with a rifle. (not that I endorse hunting big game with a .22, and not that I discount some of the accurate archers)

I sort of look at the bow draw weight and arrow weight as sort of a check like that of making sure we're not using trebble hooks in a single barbless hook river. But I think it's a valid question of 'who pulls back the string', since damage can be incurred if not done properly. If I'm on the first day of my hunt, and something happens to my equipment because of a check like this and ruins my hunt, I'm apt to go to court with the state. Anyone heard of something like this happening?

-Steve
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 13, 2010, 10:12:57 AM: good points, jackofalltrades!!! now that you said it, it is alot like a gamie making you reel in your line to check to make sure there is no bard on your hook if it is not supposed to be there. if you are legal nothing to worry about! and only takes a sec to do as well. as far as them messin up your stuff. i think you are right as well if something happened to your bow. If it was there fault and they messed up you bow because of there check. then i would be taking them to court as well. i am very touchy about my personal rifles and bows. grated i have a lot of guns that everyone shoots as well as bows that clients use. so i am use to the idea of something happening to them. but my personal bow or rifle i don't like anyone to mess with and. in the case of a bow scale. i think if you asked to use it yourself and draw the bow back. they might not mind you doing it. there is not much of a way to mess with the result when they are watching you draw it back. in my case they might thanks me. there is a few gamies around that i don't know if they could pull back my 83lb xforce :chuckle:
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: whacker1 on August 13, 2010, 10:24:22 AM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on August 13, 2010, 10:12:57 AM
good points, jackofalltrades!!! now that you said it, it is alot like a gamie making you reel in your line to check to make sure there is no bard on your hook if it is not supposed to be there. if you are legal nothing to worry about! and only takes a sec to do as well. as far as them messin up your stuff. i think you are right as well if something happened to your bow. If it was there fault and they messed up you bow because of there check. then i would be taking them to court as well. i am very touchy about my personal rifles and bows. grated i have a lot of guns that everyone shoots as well as bows that clients use. so i am use to the idea of something happening to them. but my personal bow or rifle i don't like anyone to mess with and. in the case of a bow scale. i think if you asked to use it yourself and draw the bow back. they might not mind you doing it. there is not much of a way to mess with the result when they are watching you draw it back. in my case they might thanks me. there is a few gamies around that i don't know if they could pull back my 83lb xforce :chuckle:

I am pretty sure that I would have a hard time drawing 83lb
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 13, 2010, 10:27:05 AM: :chuckle: i don't think you are the only one so don't feel bad. i have often times thought. that if i got checked and the gamie wanted to try to draw my personal bow back. i would pull out the sandwich and pop and sit back and watch them give themselves a hernia :chuckle:
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: whacker1 on August 13, 2010, 10:53:58 AM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on August 13, 2010, 10:27:05 AM
:chuckle: i don't think you are the only one so don't feel bad. i have often times thought. that if i got checked and the gamie wanted to try to draw my personal bow back. i would pull out the sandwich and pop and sit back and watch them give themselves a hernia :chuckle:

or video camera :chuckle:
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 13, 2010, 11:16:02 AM: :chuckle: youtube here i come :chuckle:
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Lowedog on August 13, 2010, 03:08:43 PM: I have one of those hand held scales. Anything over about 65lbs is a bitch to draw back with it because it puts your hand too far back from the string. Especially if the draw is too long for you. Would be funny to watch some short armed guy trying to pull back a 80lb 32" draw bow with one! :chuckle:
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 13, 2010, 03:14:07 PM: you got that right :chuckle: but i only have a 29" draw :bash: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Mtn.Ghost on August 14, 2010, 02:16:35 AM: Quote from: Drifterat on August 12, 2010, 05:25:42 PM
Has anyone really ever had an officer check your arrow weight while hunting in the field? What do they do break out a digital scale and weigh the arrow, then hook up a draw weight scale and check your bow? How does this go down?

Sure as the sun shines!! They check all your specs in the Field digi scale, bow scale, tape measure they don't have to fully draw your bow to achieve the min 40# draw weight reading. They will also take make, model, serial# and any info they ask you to provide about you setup punch it in the computer obtain factory specs were they check the let-off% of your compound to see if it is not greater than 65% They may have changed the let-off rule by now not sure, I use a crossbow now all legit special use permit. To answer your question, yes that all happened to me for some reason for about 5yrs running I got way to much game warden experience :bash: Never in trouble just always helping train the new guy or something, always getting Field stripped there for a while :dunno:
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: bigtex on August 18, 2010, 12:59:49 PM: FYI
Using illegal archery equipment such as an arrow that doesn't meet the proper weight or illegal broadheads is a $162 misdemeanor ticket.
Same fine for using illegal muzzleloader equipment.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: follow maggie on August 18, 2010, 04:49:40 PM: I just read the equipment rules in the pamphlet and there is no mention of let off requirements, only the 40 lb minimum draw weight and 300 grain arrow weight- or 6 grains/lb draw weight.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: whacker1 on August 18, 2010, 05:05:42 PM: I asked the question in a P.M. of someone else just moments ago. No let off requirements exist any more. Most states have gone to 80% or the pure removal of said let off requirement.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Todd_ID on August 18, 2010, 08:36:05 PM: I was working on my bow one day when the local officer stopped by for a chat. I'm an instructor, so it was a legit chat, before you get any ideas. I had my bow in my draw board, and he stayed and watched what I was doing to learn more about archery. He asked a ton of questions with a desire to learn about it; however, they weren't the "how can I catch people" questions; they were more the "that's interesting, I can see the challenges" questions. He knows way more about it now than he did before, and I'd like to think he respects bowhunters just a bit more now than before, not that there was ever an issue with him. He has since built a draw board and carries it with him during bow season, so that's his way around the "messing with my bow" or "try and draw this" problems. More importantly, it's professional, accurate, repeatable, and defendable in court should the need arise.

So if you get checked, and the guy uses a draw board trying to do it the right way, then it's probably my fault....sorry.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 18, 2010, 10:21:22 PM: Quote from: follow maggie on August 18, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
I just read the equipment rules in the pamphlet and there is no mention of let off requirements, only the 40 lb minimum draw weight and 300 grain arrow weight- or 6 grains/lb draw weight.

that is correct and the 40lbs is at 28" or less as well
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Instinct on August 18, 2010, 10:21:37 PM: Quote from: follow maggie on August 18, 2010, 04:49:40 PM
I just read the equipment rules in the pamphlet and there is no mention of let off requirements, only the 40 lb minimum draw weight and 300 grain arrow weight- or 6 grains/lb draw weight.

im still new to archery, 2nd year hunting. what is exactly the 6 grains/lb draw weight mean?

right now im using easton st excel 400 arrows weighing 8.6gpi, 4" fletchings, a 75grain muzzy broadhead, and are 28" long. and my instinct bow is set at 60lbs. do you guy think i am shooting illegal?
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 18, 2010, 10:24:48 PM: you need to be 360 grains per the law. 6grains per pound which you are shooting 60lbs= 360 grains best thing to do is put your arrow on a scale that measures grains. most local bow shops will have one or if you know a reloader etc that way you know for sure.
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Instinct on August 18, 2010, 10:28:15 PM: ok cool thanks, was curious 2nd year archerying hutning so the last part was wondering on
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Instinct on August 18, 2010, 10:35:39 PM: also for me to be legal i would have to prob drop my draw weight down to 52lbs then, am i correct?
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 18, 2010, 10:52:19 PM: if your arrow is 312 grains then yes. what is your arrow weight. then divide it by 6 and that will tell you the max draw weight you can have to be "legal"
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Instinct on August 18, 2010, 10:55:59 PM: awsome cool thanks, just gotta drop down the poundage to 52 and im good. currently sitting at lil over 315 grains. was worried i had to fork out more cash for arrows and broadheads haha
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 18, 2010, 11:00:35 PM: :chuckle: yep you should be o.k. with those arrows and your bow. i think if you are pretty close they will not write you a ticket. i do not know that for a fact but. but i know arrows and test equipment has variables to it. kinda like a radar is the way i look at it. are you going to get a ticket for going 1 mile over the speed limit or a few grainl, proably not. go more and then you are probably going to get it :chuckle:
Title: Re: Game Enforcement checking arrow weight?
Post by: Instinct on August 18, 2010, 11:03:29 PM: true that.. ill be barely over it so im happy wth it