Post by: DoubleJ on August 24, 2010, 08:41:56 PM
Post by: buglebrush on August 24, 2010, 08:45:05 PM
Post by: nontypical176 on August 24, 2010, 09:14:06 PM
Post by: JCClement on August 24, 2010, 10:58:57 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 24, 2010, 11:09:10 PM
Post by: inmysights on August 24, 2010, 11:34:22 PM
Post by: Crunchy on August 25, 2010, 12:05:42 AM
Post by: Elkhound on August 25, 2010, 06:00:17 AM
Post by: DoubleJ on August 25, 2010, 06:14:45 AM
Post by: Elkhound on August 25, 2010, 06:29:54 AM
Post by: brianmtsinc on August 25, 2010, 06:50:20 AM
I NEVER go into the woods without a call in my mouth now!
Keep trying and you will get it!
Post by: DoubleJ on August 25, 2010, 06:52:32 AM
Post by: Elknut1 on August 25, 2010, 06:53:46 AM
I agree, do not give up so easily it's worth the time & effort to master the mouth diaphragm! Here's some instruction for use!--------
Learning to use a mouth reed takes persistent practice, do not give up too easily, even if it seems a bit difficult at first! Make sure you're using the right tool for the job here. You want to start with a light tensioned single reed latex mouth reed or a very light tensioned 1 1/2 layered latex reed as a beginner, no double reeds here or very tight stretched latex reeds, they're not user friendly & are for more experienced calling. You want to start with cow sounds first, soft ones at that, then you will graduate to louder & longer tones as you master the small ones. Bugles will come or stem from your cow sounds. A bugle is no more than a lengthened out cow mew where you would add more air & a bit more tension on the latex reed itself with your tongue. These bugles are reserved for AFTER you master cow sounds. You want to achieve one goal before you move on to the next one!
Do Not Over Blow! This is very common for new ones to do so, do your best to control your air output as if you were just breathing the air out past the diaphragm. Make sure you have a 100% seal where the tag of the call is up against the roof of your mouth, you must dam the air up. If tag is stiff, then chew/nibble on the tag & saliva it up a bit, to soften it with your front teeth, as you hold the main frame in your right hand. This will make the tag pliable & will now mold easily to your palate. The open end part of the latex reed of the call itself should be where back of top teeth on the inside meet gum line, you do no want it too far back, It is not held with your teeth in a biting motion at all, it merely will fit snugly into place against back of top teeth & loose tag part of reed sealed in roof of mouth, the call will be in a 30-35 deg angle. Adjust front or back from there for best position per individual, make sure you have it sealed or you'll get a hissing sound, that shows air is getting over the top of mouth reed tag & escaping just under your pallet! Now take the tip portion of your tongue & drop it down to where it touches in the area of the inside of your bottom teeth & gum line, now use the middle portion of your tongue to contact mouth reed in the middle portion of the latex not the end of the latex. Some find that using the front portion back of tongue & shaping it like a bicep then using that small part of the arch in contact with the latex works best for them for some bugling such as the location bugle. To start getting a sound out of your call, say shhhh as you apply light pressure on latex with flat part or center of tongue. For more elk like sounds, now put a bit more tension on the latex & slowly increase airflow in a controlled manner. For cow sounds only light tongue pressure is needed with controlled air flow such as breathing type air. Don't push the air or force it out, avoid quick bursts of air for these starter sounds! Play with tongue tension for best sound quality, & make sure your tongue is salivated for slickness & you'll notice less tickling! Do your best to keep solid contact with tongue on reed when making sounds, this can change a bit for more nasally cow sounds, then you would slide tongue just off latex or near end of it to flutter latex & create the needed vibration of latex to get the nasal effect that a cow will use at times! For all bugles & screams you do not want your tongue slipping off front of reed, you will lose major volume there if you do! See how this info works for you! But, perfect your cow sounds first before moving on, or being concerned with bugling!
ElkNut1
Post by: DoubleJ on August 25, 2010, 07:06:37 AM
Post by: DoubleJ on August 25, 2010, 07:13:37 AM
I agree, do not give up so easily it's worth the time & effort to master the mouth diaphragm! Here's some instruction for use!--------
Learning to use a mouth reed takes persistent practice, do not give up too easily, even if it seems a bit difficult at first! Make sure you're using the right tool for the job here. You want to start with a light tensioned single reed latex mouth reed or a very light tensioned 1 1/2 layered latex reed as a beginner, no double reeds here or very tight stretched latex reeds, they're not user friendly & are for more experienced calling. You want to start with cow sounds first, soft ones at that, then you will graduate to louder & longer tones as you master the small ones. Bugles will come or stem from your cow sounds. A bugle is no more than a lengthened out cow mew where you would add more air & a bit more tension on the latex reed itself with your tongue. These bugles are reserved for AFTER you master cow sounds. You want to achieve one goal before you move on to the next one!
Do Not Over Blow! This is very common for new ones to do so, do your best to control your air output as if you were just breathing the air out past the diaphragm. Make sure you have a 100% seal where the tag of the call is up against the roof of your mouth, you must dam the air up. If tag is stiff, then chew/nibble on the tag & saliva it up a bit, to soften it with your front teeth, as you hold the main frame in your right hand. This will make the tag pliable & will now mold easily to your palate. The open end part of the latex reed of the call itself should be where back of top teeth on the inside meet gum line, you do no want it too far back, It is not held with your teeth in a biting motion at all, it merely will fit snugly into place against back of top teeth & loose tag part of reed sealed in roof of mouth, the call will be in a 30-35 deg angle. Adjust front or back from there for best position per individual, make sure you have it sealed or you'll get a hissing sound, that shows air is getting over the top of mouth reed tag & escaping just under your pallet! Now take the tip portion of your tongue & drop it down to where it touches in the area of the inside of your bottom teeth & gum line, now use the middle portion of your tongue to contact mouth reed in the middle portion of the latex not the end of the latex. Some find that using the front portion back of tongue & shaping it like a bicep then using that small part of the arch in contact with the latex works best for them for some bugling such as the location bugle. To start getting a sound out of your call, say shhhh as you apply light pressure on latex with flat part or center of tongue. For more elk like sounds, now put a bit more tension on the latex & slowly increase airflow in a controlled manner. For cow sounds only light tongue pressure is needed with controlled air flow such as breathing type air. Don't push the air or force it out, avoid quick bursts of air for these starter sounds! Play with tongue tension for best sound quality, & make sure your tongue is salivated for slickness & you'll notice less tickling! Do your best to keep solid contact with tongue on reed when making sounds, this can change a bit for more nasally cow sounds, then you would slide tongue just off latex or near end of it to flutter latex & create the needed vibration of latex to get the nasal effect that a cow will use at times! For all bugles & screams you do not want your tongue slipping off front of reed, you will lose major volume there if you do! See how this info works for you! But, perfect your cow sounds first before moving on, or being concerned with bugling!
ElkNut1
Best advice I've seen so far. Makes it sound better. I'm comparing it to my imaka da bull crazy external cow call. The sound is getting close to matching but it is MUCH quieter with the diaphram.
Post by: Little Fish on August 25, 2010, 08:57:16 AM
FYI....Elknut provided me a lot of guideance when I first started calling. Its worth a visit to his site to see what calls and DVDs/CDs he has that will help you. Personally I am a fan of the the Rocky Jacobson calls which in my opinion are more forgiving/easier to call with that Primos and other brands.
Post by: mtbiker on August 25, 2010, 09:43:14 AM
Also, one of the big hurdles I got over is when I trimmed the diaphram to get that nice fit in the top of my mouth. Until I did that, I was floundering and at best sounded like a sick duck.
Post by: mtbiker on August 25, 2010, 09:46:32 AM
Personally I am a fan of the the Rocky Jacobson calls which in my opinion are more forgiving/easier to call with that Primos and other brands.:yeah: I also use the Carlton double reed. It fits differently in my mouth than the Rocky Jacobson calls, but I like the sound I can get out of it. Also, I had to trim all of them to get them to fit right in my mouth.
Post by: Elkhound on August 25, 2010, 03:27:17 PM
Post by: Ridgeratt on August 25, 2010, 04:04:23 PM
Is to find an old 35 MM film canister and then keep them in it in a solution of half water and half of your favorite mouth wash.
If you can find the old advatanix cans they are oval. the snap lid gives you a leak proof seal as well.
Post by: DoubleJ on August 25, 2010, 04:42:18 PM
Post by: Elkhound on August 25, 2010, 05:00:34 PM
It feels sealed in the back, I just don't know. Seems like I get better sound when air goes over the top and bottom. I know this is wrong and I'm trying not to do it that way.
Just watch yourself in the mirror when you call with it in. You don't want your lips to be pierced for a cow mew sound. Tip of tongue should be on the back of the lower front teeth and the middle of the tongue placing pressure against the latex reed of the diaphragm. A lot of people pierce their lips when making a cow mew and you should have an open mouth as much as possible. I hope this helps!
Post by: DoubleJ on August 25, 2010, 05:16:07 PM
Post by: Elkhound on August 25, 2010, 05:27:48 PM
How can my tongue put pressure on the latex when that plate thingy is in the way?
It must be upside down....the plate must go toward the roof of the mouth.
Post by: DoubleJ on August 25, 2010, 08:05:12 PM
How can my tongue put pressure on the latex when that plate thingy is in the way?
It must be upside down....the plate must go toward the roof of the mouth.
Holy crap!! That explains a lot. It's a lot better now. Almost sounds good. Now I'll practice instead of throwing them out.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 25, 2010, 08:08:16 PM
Post by: blk_tmbr_archery on August 26, 2010, 12:47:09 AM
Post by: Instinct on August 26, 2010, 02:05:59 AM
Post by: roadhuntking on August 26, 2010, 03:12:52 PM
Post by: Whippersnapper on August 28, 2010, 11:57:07 AM
I recently got a big surprise last season when I encountered a herd bull. We had him in a timber stand in a small drainage surrounded by high desert. We split him off from 5 of his 12 cows and needless to say he was pissed. We engaged in a bugleing war at 50 yards for 45 minutes. However, early on I found that because the adrenaline flowing through my veins, my mouth went very dry and my diaphragm call wouldn't make any sounds that sounded even close to an elk. After licking my arm for salt I was able to get enough saliva to squeak out some chuckles. Try ado might, I wasn't able to get a big challenge bugle out. This was total call failure. I wished to the stars that I would have had a non diaphragm call as backup. If you tend to dry out when you get amped up, then definitely have a backup system.
Post by: PA BEN on August 28, 2010, 04:02:34 PM
Post by: canyelk48 on August 28, 2010, 05:02:06 PM
Post by: blk_tmbr_archery on September 05, 2010, 10:42:53 AM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on September 05, 2010, 10:59:04 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on September 05, 2010, 11:07:56 AM
Practice, practice, practice.... :bash:
Post by: Cylvertip on September 05, 2010, 12:45:47 PM
I'd love to master the use of a diaphragm, but always ended up slobbering all over myself trying to figure the dang things out!
We're still talking about calls here right :dunno: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Sorry, had to be done.
For the taste and smell issue with the diaphragm call, try a little mouth wash with the call in or the dead down wind breath spray. Either will make life a lot better.