Post by: HntnFsh on August 26, 2010, 05:24:12 PM
Its been running great.Last night I shut it off.All was fine.This morning it started to run terrible.And still is.
I borrowed an OBD 2 code reader.Its putting out a P 0174 pd code. Right bank lean.
If I'm reading right.That means the code is ongoing.So I think it has been there since before the engine started acting up.
I honestly dont know much about code readers.But it looks like it has a monitor system.To leave plugged in for awhile when driving the truck.
There are a few things I'm wondering about. Am I correct about the code?
What would cause that particular code?
Do you think its related to my engine miss?
One thing I noticed.The right bank catalytic converter is significantly hotter than the left bank.I'm wondering if its getting plugged,causing that bank to run lean and throw the code I mentioned above.
Can you advise me on how to use the reader to moniter the system? Or should I?
I'm headed out to check plugs etc.Supposedly they havent been in for long.I bought the truck a few months ago and the previous owner had tuned it up.He is a mechanic.But I know plugs can go bad anytime.
All wires look good.
If its a sensor of some sort it seems like it should throw a code.Is that right?
Sure do appreciate any help you have to offer.
Thank You,
HntnFsh
Post by: Woodchuck on August 26, 2010, 05:33:28 PM
Post by: FC on August 26, 2010, 05:44:09 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on August 26, 2010, 05:44:21 PM
Post by: the1rod on August 26, 2010, 06:46:05 PM
o2 censor could have gone bad
dosent an o2 sensor usually throw its own specific code?
Post by: lee on August 27, 2010, 08:36:33 AM
A right bank lean condition could also be caused by a failed Fuel Injector on that side. This would also account for the bad idle and hot cat.
Checking the plugs is a good idea. When checking look to see if one of the plugs is "whiter/asher/drier" than the rest on that bank. If so, swap that plug to the left bank and see if the code follows. Also, you can swap that injector to the left side to see if the code follows. Troubleshooting can be a PIA!!!!
As stated a vac leak is also possible. The Intake gasket on this engine is problematic.
Does yer truck have an O2 sensor for each bank? If so, swap them and see if the code follows.
Most code readers only take a "snap-shot" of the reported code. They are not "live" insturments. After you do any repair activity, clear the old code and run it to see what code re-appears.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Lee
Post by: jeepster on August 27, 2010, 08:58:36 AM
Hi,
A right bank lean condition could also be caused by a failed Fuel Injector on that side. \
thats what i was gonna say. ive monkeyed enough on a suburban that the owner insisted keeping running past 350k miles...
did the truck sit for a long time/allow varnish to build up?
injectors can be a beyatch to do if you havent done them before, ive never done gas, but diesel injectors i have.
try the brake kleen on the vaccuum lines, check "distributer" make sure everything is plugged in.... what about the MAF sensor?
i had an old s10 that ran like crap, i dumped 1 bottle of marvel in the oil, 1/2 a can of seafoam down the carb w the truck running and the other 1/2 in the gas tank, then dumped an octane booster in the gas tank at about 1/2 a tank.... needless to say it fixed itself...
Post by: jackelope on August 27, 2010, 09:18:27 AM
Post by: FC on August 27, 2010, 09:30:42 AM
o2 sensors only throw a specific code for actual part failure, a lean bank is not an o2 problem.
The engine in question uses a central fuel injection system...You cannot switch and ditch injectors. Being as o2 sensors have a nasty habit of seizing into their mounting bung I recommend NOT switching and ditching them around, aside from that they use different harness lengths and highly likely won't reach. The problem the intake gaskets are known for on this engine is coolant leaks due to the caustic dex-cool eating the nitrile sealing rings at the ends of the cylinder heads where the cooling jackets are located. Vacuum leaks at the intake manifold itself on this engine are rare. "Code readers" don't take a snap-shot, the vehicles ECU does and the code reader (scan tool) merely downloads it, if you could actually read live data would you have any idea of what you were seeing? The manufacturers of such tools knew that too and left live readings out of it to keep the cost of (making) the tool down. A driveability tech needs that info and an actual scan tool that will show it costs a hell of a lot more than a simple code reader.
@ the OP, if any of the magic tricks listed in this thread sounded like a good idea, take it to a shop before you break something! Once you get past looking for obvious vacuum leaks a shop is your best bet here.
All of you using brake clean on to find vacuum leaks are destroying o2 sensors...use propane, it will have a greater effect, a much safer flash point and won't ruin sensors.
Rofl Jackelope...Now you will just confuse the poor guy with a generic OBDII test!
Post by: lee on August 27, 2010, 10:27:41 AM
Hum, ..... which "stealership" do you work at? :chuckle:
Post by: FC on August 27, 2010, 10:54:23 AM
FC, so you flame everyone's suggestions for this poor fella, then all you can recommend is that after a vac leak check he take it to a shop.
Hum, ..... which "stealership" do you work at? :chuckle:
I flamed no one sir but I did lay out the facts that I have learned by working my ass off for years as a driveability tech and no I don't work for a dealership nor did I suggest the OP visit one. I have seen many people who went off of apparent myths and magic to "fix" a car or truck and end up costing themselves thousands either to repair the damage they caused or by the wheelbarrow loads of parts they dumped into the thing before they lucked into fixing it. I have literally seen this type of thing happen thousands of times and if the problem in this instance is anything more severe than an external vacuum leak the owner will almost certainly be better off going to a shop. They will have all the tools necessary to work on this problem....Do you? I know I've spent over 100k on tools to be able to efficiently and effectively work on cars with the right tool for the job as opposed to using incorrect tools that damage parts or fasteners and end up costing time and money as well as ultimately requiring the purchase of the correct tool for the job.
So yeah...I recommend taking it to a shop, not because the owner isn't smart enough to fix the car or w/e other reason a person might think up but because I highly doubt he has the necessary tools and obviously doesn't have the knowledge...Why? Because he isn't a mechanic....
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 27, 2010, 11:15:59 AM
-Steve
Post by: runamuk on August 27, 2010, 11:22:17 AM
I sure miss carburated non emissions non computer controled engines! :rolleyes:
-Steve
me too my old 70's rigs I could not only add and change oil I could also change plugs and wires and I could actually identify the majority of components.....
My Jeep I can almost find the oil and have no idea exactly where much else is under the hood...pretty sure there is an engine in there somewhere :dunno:
most the guys replying on this thread work in "shops" I find it funny how the shop guys are often the first to respond and then blamed for trying to get business :dunno:
Post by: jackelope on August 27, 2010, 11:26:10 AM
FC, so you flame everyone's suggestions for this poor fella, then all you can recommend is that after a vac leak check he take it to a shop.
Hum, ..... which "stealership" do you work at? :chuckle:
FC doesn't work at a dealership...but I do.
I posted the diagnostic flow chart for the code. That is the proper way to diagnose it. That is why the shops charge people to diagnose their problems and why they do not throw parts at cars till they fix 'em or diagnose them for free...that and the other part FC posted about having $100k in tools to properly diagnose and fix cars.
Do you know the difference between a technician and a mechanic?
A mechanic changes parts on a car, a technician knows why the parts are getting changed.
Have a nice day.
Post by: jackelope on August 27, 2010, 11:31:58 AM
Post by: wadu1 on August 27, 2010, 11:33:50 AM
Good Luck; :twocents:
Post by: Alchase on August 27, 2010, 11:44:02 AM
I sure miss carburated non emissions non computer controled engines! :rolleyes:
-Steve
Not me, after trying to keep the timing right on a 71, Challenger, 383 6 pack! :o
I can't kick myself for selling that one so I will :beatdeadhorse:
I love the people who are broke down on the side of the freeway getting jump starts.
:chuckle:
Those are the same people you see adding a quart of oil :rolleyes:
Post by: FC on August 27, 2010, 12:37:13 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 27, 2010, 12:46:07 PM
:dunno:
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on August 27, 2010, 12:48:55 PM
It leaked coolant like a bitch from the water pump though..LOL
Oh now that's funny/stupid!
I walked out to the shop the other day to 'think about starting the lift kit install with my son on his Ranger'... What's that slimy chit wet patch on the floor? :dunno: I crawled under the front of the truck to see that the water pump shaft seal had given up. :'( Drip, drip, drip. Dang it! :bash:
-Steve
Post by: lee on August 27, 2010, 03:10:37 PM
There's another Auto shop guy on here who informed me the other week he had a lady call and complain that her A/C was too cold.:chuckle:
:dunno:
Post by: runamuk on August 27, 2010, 03:11:49 PM
There's another Auto shop guy on here who informed me the other week he had a lady call and complain that her A/C was too cold.:chuckle:
:dunno:
I heard about this as well...still waiting to hear if she was BLONDE :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Woodchuck on August 27, 2010, 03:18:27 PM
Post by: FC on August 27, 2010, 03:19:01 PM
There's another Auto shop guy on here who informed me the other week he had a lady call and complain that her A/C was too cold.
:dunno:
Believe it or not that is actually a complaint that I have heard numerous times, I've had to instruct people in how to properly use their thermostat...Makes me wonder if its always 110 or subzero in their houses too...
Post by: FC on August 27, 2010, 03:23:29 PM
no as a matter of fact she was not but she sure fit the stereotype. nearly as bad as the guy i had to explain that universal transmission fluid does not mean it will work as brake fluid and yes it really does cost that much :bash:
I had a guy come in once for an oil burning problem as well as noise after changing his own oil, it took a hell of a lot of prying to get anything other than "The Right Kind of Oil of course!" out of him. Turned out it was the high performance stuff alright...High performance TWO CYCLE oil...The guy actually bitched when I told him I had gone ahead and changed his oil too being as he had just changed it an' all.
Post by: ICEMAN on August 27, 2010, 03:35:00 PM
Post by: FC on August 27, 2010, 03:38:54 PM
I sent my brother out to check his radiator fluid in his mid 70's VW bug... :chuckle:
Meanie..I had a guy hunting for muffler bearings for about a half hour at a parts house once...It was worth the wait and his boss almost pissed his pants when the kid finally admitted defeat.
Post by: runamuk on August 27, 2010, 03:42:59 PM
I sent my brother out to check his radiator fluid in his mid 70's VW bug... :chuckle:
Meanie..I had a guy hunting for muffler bearings for about a half hour at a parts house once...It was worth the wait and his boss almost pissed his pants when the kid finally admitted defeat.
you all are mean... mean I tell you..... :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: wadu1 on August 27, 2010, 05:46:19 PM
I had a young lady at work that lost all her oil out the top end because she lost her cap, when I drove her to the parts store I asked for a 710 cap. She or the young guy behind the counter got it (write it down 710 then turn the paper over)I sent my brother out to check his radiator fluid in his mid 70's VW bug... :chuckle:
Meanie..I had a guy hunting for muffler bearings for about a half hour at a parts house once...It was worth the wait and his boss almost pissed his pants when the kid finally admitted defeat.
you all are mean... mean I tell you..... :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: HntnFsh on August 27, 2010, 07:08:47 PM
I did a little googling last night and read that the Distributer cap on these have been a bit of a problem.Especially non AC Delco ones.
So that reinforced my plans for the plugs,cap,rotor,changeout.
Did that today.And although I cant see a thing wrong with the cap.Its bad.Put it back in just to verify that was it. Runs terrible with the old.great with the new. :IBCOOL:
I'll keep an eye on the catalytic converter issue,just in case its not related. :dunno:
The code that I pulled yesterday.Was a pending code.So if I understand correctly,that could have been in the system from before I bought the truck.I'll keep an eye out to see if it comes back.
Ive always worked on my own rigs.So its more than a little frustrating for me when working on the newer stuff. :bash:
AS was said by one of the guys on here.Do the simple stuff and if that doesnt fix it.Bring it to a shop.That is good advice.And I may have done that.But I'm pretty dam stubborn so I may have battled it for awhile before conceding defeat. :bdid:But thats just me.
Fortunately I won this battle and my ego can live on for awhile.
Thanks again
Hntnfsh
Post by: timberghost72 on August 27, 2010, 11:06:21 PM
I had a young lady at work that lost all her oil out the top end because she lost her cap, when I drove her to the parts store I asked for a 710 cap. She or the young guy behind the counter got it (write it down 710 then turn the paper over)I sent my brother out to check his radiator fluid in his mid 70's VW bug... :chuckle:
Meanie..I had a guy hunting for muffler bearings for about a half hour at a parts house once...It was worth the wait and his boss almost pissed his pants when the kid finally admitted defeat.
you all are mean... mean I tell you..... :chuckle: :chuckle:
Its funny the jokes we techs do to people. 5 years ago this could have been used as a joke but now its real. Diesel exhaust fluid. Who would have thought there would be a day where one would have to fill up a tank with diesel exhaust fluid. For those who haven't heard about this Ford and I think Chevy now require this in their vehicles. Ford has a 5 gallon tank that takes a urea based fluid used for reducing NOx in exhaust emissions. That 5 gallons lasts for approx. 100 miles. So now you have to fill 2 tanks. And when on a long trip you have to carry extra.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 27, 2010, 11:08:32 PM
Post by: jackelope on August 29, 2010, 11:41:54 AM
I had a young lady at work that lost all her oil out the top end because she lost her cap, when I drove her to the parts store I asked for a 710 cap. She or the young guy behind the counter got it (write it down 710 then turn the paper over)I sent my brother out to check his radiator fluid in his mid 70's VW bug... :chuckle:
Meanie..I had a guy hunting for muffler bearings for about a half hour at a parts house once...It was worth the wait and his boss almost pissed his pants when the kid finally admitted defeat.
you all are mean... mean I tell you..... :chuckle: :chuckle:
Its funny the jokes we techs do to people. 5 years ago this could have been used as a joke but now its real. Diesel exhaust fluid. Who would have thought there would be a day where one would have to fill up a tank with diesel exhaust fluid. For those who haven't heard about this Ford and I think Chevy now require this in their vehicles. Ford has a 5 gallon tank that takes a urea based fluid used for reducing NOx in exhaust emissions. That 5 gallons lasts for approx. 100 miles. So now you have to fill 2 tanks. And when on a long trip you have to carry extra.
The Diesel Exhaust Fluid will be in all 2011 medium/heavy duty Dodge trucks but will only need to be topped off at every oil change interval. It is a 5 gallon tank I believe. We will be including it with the oil changes on those trucks. You might want to recheck your stats. I think you'll find it lasts a lot longer than 100 miles. I just finished the Dodge training on it.
Maybe Chev and Ford are different, who knows.
Post by: jackelope on August 29, 2010, 11:45:56 AM
Quote
Arvan says diesel exhaust fluid refill intervals will vary depending on duty cycle. Some customers will only have to refill during routing maintenance, such as when the oil is changed, while others will have to top off the tank sooner. “If they’re towing frequently, they’ll [likely] have to fill up with DEF again sooner,” Arvan said.
To ensure that the exhaust fluid tank is refilled, Duramax-equipped trucks will warn the driver when the fluid is down to a 1,000-mile range. A series of start-up warnings -- including lights, chimes and messages -- will become more frequent until the tank is empty. If the driver continues to operate the truck with a dry tank, after a final warning and restart the truck will only operate in a “limp-home” mode that limits speed to just 5 mph until the tank is refilled.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/08/first-look-2011-duramax-diesel-v8-engine.html (http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2009/08/first-look-2011-duramax-diesel-v8-engine.html)
Post by: ICEMAN on August 29, 2010, 07:21:26 PM
Post by: FC on August 29, 2010, 07:48:58 PM