Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: Ray on March 30, 2008, 01:32:36 PM

Title: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on March 30, 2008, 01:32:36 PM: They don't seat into my cartridge necks. They're sometimes loose and won't stay put. Someone on another forum suggested I get a Lee Factory Crimping Die to settle them in. Just wondering if you have experienced this with these bullets.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: boneaddict on March 30, 2008, 01:37:39 PM: I've never shot Barnes.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on March 30, 2008, 01:38:59 PM: Someone else also gave me the impression that the expanding ball in my brand new die set might be off. I measured it at .257 for the .25-06 Sounds about right to me. He said the one he was using was .247
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: boneaddict on March 30, 2008, 01:40:28 PM: I was thinking .257 for the 25 :dunno:
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on March 30, 2008, 01:43:19 PM: I didn't think I was nutty. :dunno:
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: bobcat on March 30, 2008, 01:44:03 PM: I've loaded 140 TSX bullets in my 270 Win. They shoot nice, consistently small groups. I never had any problem like you are having. Have you tried any other bullets?
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on March 30, 2008, 01:45:09 PM: Quote
Have you tried any other bullets?
Not yet. But am considering it just to rule one thing out or another. Just didn't like the idea of spending *more* money before I understood the problem.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: boneaddict on March 30, 2008, 01:49:59 PM: How big of a hurry are you in. I can probably talk Idabooner into sending you a Speer and Nosler your way if he has any to try to run through it. Would be there Wed probably if he has them.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: boneaddict on March 30, 2008, 01:50:30 PM: Is this new brass or previously fired?
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on March 30, 2008, 01:52:13 PM: This was new Remington brass. I am going to the store to pick out some lead bullets.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: boneaddict on March 30, 2008, 01:56:02 PM: K. I imagine it has to do with the new brass. We used to previosuly fire all brass before working up a regular shooting load. I wish I knew more to tell you the mechanics of it. Good luck.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: bobcat on March 30, 2008, 01:59:49 PM: The new brass shouldn't be like that as long as you ran it through your sizer die first, and it sounds as if you did.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Slenk on March 30, 2008, 03:21:35 PM: Expanding ball sound a little large.
It should be a little under sized.
Have you mick-ed your bullets.
Slenk
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Idabooner on March 30, 2008, 03:58:43 PM: Just checked my RCBS expanding ball for 25-06. .255
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on March 30, 2008, 04:13:23 PM: I believe it has to do with the bullets being copper more than anything else; and that it is less malleable a metal than lead which I am used to using. I was able to fix it but I would say that it requires more attention than lead bullets for sure..

When putting in the first bullets I was attempting to figure out the overall length in order to make a fit into the chamber of my new rifle. The first two attempts were too long. So I put them back into the die and tried to shorten them. When I did that it was just close enough to the edge on one of the 3 grooves which are on the side of the bullet that it was stripping the copper. So I had to shorten them even more. I figured out an overall length that works but the general rule seems to be that any time I run them through the die more than once it seems as if this "loose" issue occurs. If you are even close to the edge of one of the grooves and it strips the bullet then you have to shorten or lengthen them more. When I was making minor adjustments to the overall length it seems as if it was more prone to this oddity.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: boneaddict on March 30, 2008, 04:35:27 PM: Intresting. I wonder how long it will be before we have to use all copper.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on March 30, 2008, 05:10:09 PM: Most of my rifles have only ever had Barnes bullets in them. I think your problem has to do with your sizing die rather than the one you use to seat the bullets. Im talking about RCBS dies. The triple shox bullet is the best bullet period end of story.

:twocents:
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on March 30, 2008, 05:16:21 PM: This did not have anything to do with the expanding ball on the sizing die as much is it does have to do with reworking the overall length on copper bullets with grooves on the side. Mystery was solved about 2 posts ago.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: jackelope on March 30, 2008, 09:32:15 PM: i don't reload, and don't have a clue what most of you guys are talking about, but barnes tsx is all i shoot in my deer/elk/yote rifles too. good stuff for sure.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: high country on March 31, 2008, 09:15:27 PM: are you de burring your necks? the barnes are pretty soft and do gall if the neck is not chamfered. I have loaded at least 2k barnes x in .257 in my 2bit and roy.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on March 31, 2008, 09:22:24 PM: I was not deburring the necks. I figured brand new brass would be fine. I've found that the copper bullets are high maintenace in this regard. Although people swear by them I am not sure I will reuse them based purely upon the extra amount of care I have to take to get these done right.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: boneaddict on March 31, 2008, 09:25:06 PM: I don't think you would have to de-burr factory brass. People swear by them. I'm shooting lead until the fat lady sings, or Hillary gets elected, whichever comes first.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Intruder on April 02, 2008, 01:46:18 PM: No problems w/ TSX in my 300. Been loading them for 3+ years.... Hornady dies.

I've never done this but I've heard some guys put a slight crimp on their reloads to prevent recoil from moving the bullets when the cartridges are loaded in the magazine. Not sure what I think about that but it seems like it may be feasible... may be worth looking into. :dunno:
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Slenk on April 02, 2008, 04:23:17 PM: Quote from: boneaddict on March 31, 2008, 09:25:06 PM
I don't think you would have to de-burr factory brass. People swear by them. I'm shooting lead until the fat lady sings, or Hillary gets elected, whichever comes first.

New factory brass needs to be de-burred. I hope the fat lady never sings in Washington. And also that Hillary never gets elected.
Slenk
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on April 02, 2008, 05:57:43 PM: I'm not convinced by any stretch the deburring brass has anything to do with the matter here. I would agree that what intruder is probably a lot closer to what needs to be done if you ask me. Hence my original post talking about the Lee Factory Crimping Die...
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: AWS on April 03, 2008, 10:30:31 PM: I justed checked a .25 cal expander ball (Redding) and it to was .255 and my Barnes and Sierra .25 cal bullets both miced .257. If your expander ball is actually .257 that leaves you with zero neck tension on the bullet and they will be loose.

AWS
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on April 03, 2008, 10:32:23 PM: I'm not sure if some of you fellows have read my response earlier. I said that this only happens when I resize it more than once and thus seems to strip the copper off by scraping the side of the brass. So therefore it doesn't happen on every round. Making sure you see that again. :hello:
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: AWS on April 03, 2008, 10:48:52 PM: If your stripping copper off one side of the bullet then you do need to chamfer the inside edge of your neck mouth, done durring the deburring process. It will allow the bullet to slide into the case with out scraping copper off the side of the bullet. RCBS makes a VLD deburring tool with a 22degree angle to ease the entry into the case even more and cause less dammage to the bullet.

AWS
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on April 03, 2008, 10:53:51 PM: Well I did have a deburring tool and used it last night but it didn't seem to fix the problem for me in that situation. I tested it just to see. Maybe I don't have the exact one you speak of. I'll check it out next week. Thanks AWS.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Guy on April 05, 2008, 03:19:19 AM: Ray - I just read the post. Have been happily loading and shooting 100 gr Barnes TSX bullets from my .25-06 Rem 700 for three years now. They've proven to be accurate, deadly on mule deer, and easy to load. I'm running them at 3340 fps, over a reasonable charge of H4350.

Let me know if you're having any trouble getting them to shoot well - I may have be able to help. They're quite a bullet, and they ought to be for the price!

Regards, Guy
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: coonhound on April 05, 2008, 08:31:59 AM: I would suspect the expander ball, if it's .257 you don't have any press fit. Did you measure the ball with calipers or a micrometer? Calipers are not a reliable means of measuring close tolerance they are heavily effected by measuring pressure. If you use a caliper to take your measurement work deep into the jaws. My expander ball is .002 smaller than the bullet. I've never had any issues loading the Barnes.

I will contradict what most have said on here about performance. I think they have great terminal performance but I have never got them to shoot anywhere near as good as the other premium bullets out there. I spend much more time cleaning the copper fouling out of my barrel than I do loading and shooting. I only get a small window of good grouping before the fouling becomes an issue. I have a 270 that consistently shoots sub .750" groups, even when I shoot cheap hornady spire points. When I shoot the Barnes TSX my groups grow to 1.5" - 2".

Coon
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 05, 2008, 05:34:48 PM: I agree coon, I do lots of killin with the plain Jane Hornady interloks. Your story is not new, from what I've found, barnes either shoot awesome, or like *censored*, no in between. Guess if I ever hunt dangerous game, I might find out if the triple shocks are any better...
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on April 05, 2008, 06:36:51 PM: I ordered me the Lee Collet crimp die and also some nosler partition bullets. I'll take both to the range in a couple of weeks after loading them up. I didn't measure with a micrometer so I did understand that it wasn't an exact measurement. At any rate I highly doubt I got a brand new die set that was bad. I think my first suspicion is true. I understand that some of you fellows have loaded thousands of these without this issue but you are welcome to come right in and prove me wrong on this load in my office. I am sure none of you will take me up on anyway :rolleyes: and neither would I. However I did get another fellow to fess up he had the same exact problem as I did and he just ended up switching bullets because they shot so bad anyway.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 05, 2008, 06:48:11 PM: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on April 05, 2008, 06:50:49 PM: Quote from: Passion on April 05, 2008, 06:48:11 PM
:chuckle:
No *censored*. Talk about a waste of time and money. Oh well. I do this more for fun than anything else.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 05, 2008, 06:59:26 PM: I had the issue 7 years ago I adjusted my sizing die on some of the barnes blue bullets and it fixed it.

If your rifle is not clean the barnes bullets wont shoot, or if the finish inside the barrel is ruff. (I have experienced both) Hornady spire points are my second favorite bullets.

Using a chamfer on new brass is mandatory even the best nosler and Norma stuff need it at least once, and I usually have to redo it after I trim the case.

For what its worth I have never used a LEE die only RCBS sets. A series if I can get em.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on April 05, 2008, 07:02:39 PM: I have not even got to the point where I feel comfortable with what I have as reloaded ammo to shoot. 8)

When those nosler partitions arrive; if they slide into home base like champions I plan on canning barnes tsx and returning the collet die.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 05, 2008, 07:07:16 PM: Noslers are nice did you get partitions of Ballistic tips? I like swift A frames and Scroccios too.... Hornady is the best value I have found.......and I cant stand Molly coated bullets.........Its very satisfying to kill an Animal with a load that you developed and a cartridge that you honed yourself. :twocents:

I was at Kenmore last year and a guy blew up his gun and got taken out of the range on a back board because of a bad load............the fiberglass Winchester stock splintered and pummeled his face the bolt broke his nose :o Pieces of the action hit me in the back and the barrel broke the lights above us...............

Definitely find someone to help you if your not comfortable and dont drink while your reloading :chuckle:
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on April 05, 2008, 07:10:06 PM: I didn't get the ballistic tips. Just the standard issue ones. My .223 loves the hornady bullets and so does my .30

The whole reason I was asking some second opinion is because I don't intend to end up hurt like that fellow. I reload for everything but my shotgun and .22 and I have not ever encountered this although I have heard of finecky bullet loading before...
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 05, 2008, 07:33:55 PM: I have a friend that reloaded a batch of 7mm and didnt do it right he pulled the trigger one time on a new rifle and the gun had to be sent back to the factory so the bolt would open again.... :chuckle:

Old powder is the devil.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: coonhound on April 05, 2008, 09:49:15 PM: I have used the Lee Factory crimp die. It does a great job of making an effective crimp but it also decreases the life of your brass. Unlike the RCBS dies that just slightly closes the top of the neck the Lee squeezes the top edge of the case to the point of deforming the brass. If you're shooting a mag it is good insurance, you definitely won't have to worry about a bullet slipping in the magazine.

Coon
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on April 06, 2008, 05:41:19 PM: Thanks for all the advice fellas. Gosh this is a true drama queen topic for me :chuckle:

Anyway I got out to the range just now and tried out the bullets on my new rifle. The first 6 shots were all over the place. Then I cleaned out the barrel with a few rings of the brush and then kept shooting. It turns out that this was a good idea because then I got real tight shot groups with two loads. Although one load was somewhat better than the other. Anybody looking for a can of IMR 4350?

The second fired brass was easier to work with by far...
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: WDFW-SUX on April 07, 2008, 07:46:50 PM: Save your powder for the 4th of july....
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Big Stick on April 08, 2008, 10:22:45 PM: I shoot the X//XFB/XBT/XLC/TSX fairly expressly..in .224,.243,.257,.284,.308.,.338 and .375.

Drop a weight,kiss lands,opt a high load density and Rule the World.

Crimping is the worst thing you can do to any bullet and I've only shot the X to 378Wby...............
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Ray on April 08, 2008, 10:25:22 PM: Quote
Crimping is the worst thing you can do to any bullet

The other option is to throw them away and not use the deformed ones. I will stick with crimping the odd ones instead as I think it is the lesser of the two evils.
Title: Re: Anybody reloading the Barnes TSX Bullets?
Post by: Big Stick on April 08, 2008, 10:32:46 PM: Compelling testimony.

Give or take..................