Post by: shorthair15 on October 26, 2010, 09:28:36 PM
Post by: 700xcr on October 26, 2010, 09:50:32 PM
Post by: Bob33 on October 26, 2010, 09:53:41 PM
Post by: bobcat on October 26, 2010, 10:21:42 PM
Post by: 509er on October 27, 2010, 04:58:06 AM
Post by: C-Money on October 27, 2010, 07:50:45 AM
Post by: HUNT on October 27, 2010, 07:50:58 AM
Post by: Bofire on October 27, 2010, 10:38:23 AM
Carl
Post by: C-Money on October 27, 2010, 05:39:20 PM
I never feel under gunned or inferior to the "mag" shooters when I have the 30-06.
You might after 600 yards if you want to shoot that far. :chuckle:
I do not wish to shoot 600 yards. Hats off to those that can accurately! I will stick to a 270win or a 30-06. I killed my buck at 274 yards this year and that was probably the longest shot I have ever taken. If I can't figure out how to cut the distance (600 yards) at least in half, I will just watch him and learn how to kill him another day.
Post by: Bigtine96 on October 27, 2010, 05:42:04 PM
Post by: markts on October 27, 2010, 05:46:06 PM
Post by: Bofire on October 27, 2010, 06:03:30 PM
:)
Carl
Post by: D-Rock425 on October 27, 2010, 08:21:28 PM
Post by: Hyde on October 27, 2010, 09:28:45 PM
Post by: Jamieb on October 27, 2010, 09:36:25 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on October 27, 2010, 09:37:44 PM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on October 28, 2010, 11:57:59 AM
30-06 will work for just about anything though.
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 12:04:02 PM
the 7mag is about "100 yards better" for lack of better words.
No way is it '100 yards better.' I'd say 25 yards, at best.
Post by: Curly on October 28, 2010, 12:16:31 PM
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 01:26:46 PM
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 01:37:58 PM
Speed and energy is what puts your game in the dirt.
No, a hole in one side and out the other is what does that. Energy is just a number based on the velocity and weight of the bullet. It means nothing. If the bullet has sufficient velocity to go through an animal, it will die. Doesn't matter what the foot-pounds of energy happens to be. A 7mm mag or 30-06 both have more than enough velocity to kill as far as most people are able to hit their target. And while the trajectory of a 7 mag might be slightly better, as with either one when you get beyond about 400 yards you're going to have to know the distance and the drop of your bullet at that range. That's what rangefinders are for...
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 01:41:03 PM
Both the 7mm Magnum and the 30-06 are basically 400 yard rifles.
Seriously? 400 yards? That is just the begining of what a 7mm is capable. They are a 1000 yard gun no problem!
Depends on the shooter. But if a 7 mag is good for 1000 yards, then so is the 30-06.
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 01:51:10 PM
Post by: Antlerking on October 28, 2010, 01:57:06 PM
Both cartridges are so close ballistically you're just splitting hairs when comparing them. And remember, we're talking about an out of the box, lightweight, Tikka here, not a custom built, long range, 15 pound rifle. You'd really be stretching the capabilities of such a rifle in either caliber, at anything beyond 400 yards.
I disagree. 400 yards is a chip shot with my Tikka 7mm.
Ditto. I agree with stickslinger for the 1st time
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 01:57:10 PM
Post by: Curly on October 28, 2010, 02:14:22 PM
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 02:18:23 PM
We all know the 243 is not a good elk cartridge. But by the numbers, you could actually show it to be a great elk cartridge, if you just go by the energy numbers. As I have said, the calculated foot-pounds of energy is nothing more than a number. If a particular load out of a 7 mag shows it has 200 foot pounds more than a 30-06 load, it doesn't mean it will kill better. No animal can tell the difference between 200 foot pounds.
I used to believe in the numbers too. Over the years I came to the realization that all you need is a hole in, and a hole out, and you've got a dead animal.
30-06 = 7mm Rem. Mag.
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 02:20:23 PM
Too bad there isn't a moderator around here to get rid of these thread jacking posts.......... ;)
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Hey, we're still 100% on topic! The question was which should he get in a Tikka- 7 mag or 30-06. I don't see a thread jack here.
Post by: Curly on October 28, 2010, 02:26:13 PM
Too bad there isn't a moderator around here to get rid of these thread jacking posts.......... ;)
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Hey, we're still 100% on topic! The question was which should he get in a Tikka- 7 mag or 30-06. I don't see a thread jack here.
You are right. Keep at it, it is entertaining.
Oh, and if 30-06 = 7mm mag.....than 270 win = 300 win mag
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 02:30:00 PM
Oh, and if 30-06 = 7mm mag.....than 270 win = 300 win mag
No, not quite. There's enough discernable difference between those two that I wouldn't call them equals.
Post by: Curly on October 28, 2010, 02:32:32 PM
Post by: Curly on October 28, 2010, 02:33:11 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on October 28, 2010, 02:34:51 PM
Post by: 509er on October 28, 2010, 02:37:48 PM
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 02:40:17 PM
I wasn't replying to your post about the 243. It was in reply to you saying 400 yards was a "chip shot."
We all know the 243 is not a good elk cartridge. But by the numbers, you could actually show it to be a great elk cartridge, if you just go by the energy numbers. As I have said, the calculated foot-pounds of energy is nothing more than a number. If a particular load out of a 7 mag shows it has 200 foot pounds more than a 30-06 load, it doesn't mean it will kill better. No animal can tell the difference between 200 foot pounds.
I used to believe in the numbers too. Over the years I came to the realization that all you need is a hole in, and a hole out, and you've got a dead animal.
30-06 = 7mm Rem. Mag.
By the numbers a .243 is NOT a good elk round as it ony has 1200 ft lbs of energy at 200 yards and a 7mm has 2400. That is why, twice the energy, twice the knockdown. Energy is why a .243 is not a good elk gun. Beleive it or not.
Your theory that energy does not matter goes against what has been proven and been taught. If your gun cannot supply enough energy behind the bullet you have to upgrage.
Like upgrade from a 30-06 to a 7mm. :chuckle:
You're talking about two vastly different cartridges when you're comparing the 243 to the 7mm Remington Magnum. Quite different than comparing two cartridges as close in performance as the 7 mag and 30-06.
Post by: Curly on October 28, 2010, 02:45:27 PM
If you have 175gr 7mm ammo and 180 gr 30-06 ammo in cheap Core-lokt or Win Powerpoints, I'd probably go with the 30-06 since the bullets will be going slower and have a better chance of holding together.
Post by: bobcat on October 28, 2010, 02:46:26 PM
Quote
I was making an exaggeration with .243 to show that energy does matter. Thats all!
I understand, and I also realize it's tough to admit that the guy with the 30-06 can kill an elk just as far as you can with your 7 mag. :chuckle:
Post by: Bofire on October 28, 2010, 04:16:44 PM
Carl
Post by: Jellymon on October 28, 2010, 06:17:10 PM
Post by: coachcw on October 28, 2010, 06:25:40 PM
Post by: Bofire on October 28, 2010, 06:53:22 PM
Post by: jdb on October 28, 2010, 06:59:04 PM
Post by: shorthair15 on October 28, 2010, 07:38:16 PM
Post by: Phantom Gobbler on October 28, 2010, 07:39:19 PM
Post by: Curly on October 28, 2010, 08:01:26 PM
for the 7mm .i have 150 grain core lokt,150 and 175 grain federals the classics,150 grain nosler partition federal premuims and 165 grain sierra game king federal premuims. was looking at them cant believe how cheap i bought them for. some were asking what time of ammo i have this it. im leaning towards the 7mm mag i have a custom 300 ultra mag just dont want to spend 1500.00 on customizing a gun again. for the 30-06 i have 180 grain core lokts,2 boxes of 165 grain nosler partitions federal premuims,180 grain soft point winchesters, 180 grain eldorado's made by pmc dont think they make them anymore.
Sounds to me like you need both....... :twocents:
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on October 28, 2010, 08:26:25 PM
The entire benefit of a bigger calibre is always (it seems to me) the ability to shoot a heavier bullet.
How about we compair a 30-06 180 gr against the 7mm 165 gr and see how they stack up at long range.
If bullet weight is always equal and initial speed is also similar, then the smaller cal is always going to have better down range stats.
:twocents:
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on October 28, 2010, 09:26:15 PM
Post by: Bofire on October 29, 2010, 08:51:00 AM
one side of the equation promotes penetration- the other side resists. Impact is the energy transfered on impact.
to try to keep it very simple.
"then the smaller cal is always going to have better down range stats" if it is the same weight or heavier than the larger diameter projectile.
Post by: king on October 30, 2010, 02:30:27 PM
Post by: Bob33 on October 30, 2010, 02:38:02 PM
[7mm has better down range stats even comparing a 165 to a 180. That 165 will penetrate better than the 180 in the 06 especially at long range.The benifit is that the 7mm is not droping like a rock past 500 yards. I am not saying that a 30-06 is not a good round. But the question is which performs better. The 7mm has been proven to perform better and shoot flatter. How many long range hunters use a 30-06 vs. 7mm. No comparasin.No comparison? The 7mm is proven to perform better? Says who?
See for yourself if there is "no comparison". These are straight off Federal's site: a 7mm 160 grain Accubond, and a 30-06 180 grain Accubond.
[smg id=9918]
Post by: 300UltraMagShooter on October 30, 2010, 02:42:48 PM
Not true. Heavier bullet (given same bullet construction) will out penetrate a lighter bullet give the same speed. We just need to see if the extra weight is more efficient than the lesser amount of wind drag the 7mm has.Everyone is making a big mistake when comparing the 30-06 and 7mm.
The entire benefit of a bigger calibre is always (it seems to me) the ability to shoot a heavier bullet.
How about we compair a 30-06 180 gr against the 7mm 165 gr and see how they stack up at long range.
If bullet weight is always equal and initial speed is also similar, then the smaller cal is always going to have better down range stats.
:twocents:
7mm has better down range stats even comparing a 165 to a 180. That 165 will penetrate better than the 180 in the 06 especially at long range.The benifit is that the 7mm is not droping like a rock past 500 yards. I am not saying that a 30-06 is not a good round. But the question is which performs better. The 7mm has been proven to perform better and shoot flatter. How many long range hunters use a 30-06 vs. 7mm. No comparasin.
Post by: Wanttohuntmore on October 30, 2010, 07:35:08 PM
Post by: bobcat on October 30, 2010, 07:39:12 PM
Statistics dont lie. Just look it up. Sorry 30-06 guys you cant perform like a 7mm. The 30-06 is a great all purpose caliber and ammo is cheaper your right, but to say it is the same as a 7mm is justr not true.
That's right, statistics don't lie. Did you look at what Bob33 posted? Apparently not. It shows the 30-06 and 7 Mag virtually the same out to 500 yards. To me the energy figures are meaningless, but you seem to think it's important- well... look at the energy of each one. Practically the same all the way out to 500 yards. Where is it that you're seeing a big difference between the two ???
Look at the trajectory tables. Only 7 inches less drop at 500 yards for the 7 mag. That's nothing! With either one you have to hold high at 500 yards. With the 30-06 you hold 7 inches higher! Big deal! 99% of hunters should never attempt a shot that far anyway. At 400 yards it's a measly 4 inch advantage to the 7 mag. Again, big deal!
It's a good thing to have confidence in your rifle, but don't think that having a 7 mag gives you any advantage over someone with a 30-06. What one will do the other will do the same, no better, no worse.
Post by: C-Money on October 31, 2010, 09:13:07 AM
Post by: birdwacker on October 31, 2010, 09:39:22 AM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on October 31, 2010, 09:48:10 AM
Im done shooting stuff at hypersonic speeds.
Post by: coachcw on November 07, 2010, 11:32:23 AM
Post by: FC on November 07, 2010, 12:31:25 PM
Talking up a mag cartridge as something better for a guy who isn't as good of a shot?!?!?! Are you really serious? You want an easy to shoot, non-flinch inducing gun for someone who doesn't shoot much...The old idea of "I'm not that good of a shot so I need a OMGWTFBBQ MAGNUM just in case I only hit Bambi's toe cause' it will skin and quarter him on the spot anyway" is completely retarded.
btw I use MAGNUM condoms :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on November 07, 2010, 12:40:58 PM