Post by: BAR C3 on November 03, 2010, 08:09:39 PM
If your to big of a puss, then road hunt like all the others and quit ruining it for others. I know of two spikes and one four point that was recovered by trucks.
And they sure weren't NATIVES doing this!
Post by: elkbuster on November 03, 2010, 08:15:39 PM
If the guys that are driving behind the gates in there truck and a seperate group on four wheelers, are on this board and happen to read this, I will have you plates ran by this weekend and I will expose you. :mor: Pretty sad that I'm walking with a limp recovering from achilles surgery and I'm able to hike in 3 miles behind a gate. I won't say what gates but all will know who it is soon.
If your to big of a puss, then road hunt like all the others and quit ruining it for others. I know of two spikes and one four point that was recovered by trucks.
And they sure weren't NATIVES doing this!
Stick it to 'em where the sun don't shine BAR C3!!!!! >:(
Post by: shedcrazy on November 03, 2010, 08:16:33 PM
Post by: BENCHLEG on November 03, 2010, 08:17:00 PM
Post by: fishwhackin on November 03, 2010, 08:18:48 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on November 03, 2010, 08:19:21 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on November 03, 2010, 08:20:36 PM
:'( :'(
:dunno:
Post by: elkhuntindad on November 03, 2010, 08:35:20 PM
Post by: gasman on November 03, 2010, 08:42:41 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on November 03, 2010, 08:44:12 PM
The guys on the four wheelers, just zipped by him. He hunted is a$$ off today four miles in.
Not sure what :'( :'( means Shed Crazy?? You okay with that?
Post by: BAR C3 on November 03, 2010, 08:45:10 PM
Are you refering to the gates up Bear creek/Cub creek? (1911 road)That would be them since you brought it up Gasman.
Post by: Wazukie on November 03, 2010, 08:46:30 PM
The one group have keys to the gates. I'm assuming they have copies from someone that worked up there in the woods. Of course they told my brother not to say anything and they would help him get his elk out. We don't play that way. He also mentioned they are good Christian people.
The guys on the four wheelers, just zipped by him. He hunted is a$$ off today four miles in.
Not sure what :'( :'( means Shed Crazy?? You okay with that?
Most who ARE good Christian folks, dont have to tell ya, you can just tell!
Post by: royalbull on November 03, 2010, 08:49:09 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on November 03, 2010, 08:56:18 PM
Post by: gasman on November 03, 2010, 08:57:31 PM
Are you referring to the gates up Bear creek/Cub creek? (1911 road)That would be them since you brought it up Gasman.
Spent some time up there before bear season and know exactly what and where you are talking about. I was up there this summer with my bike (took the trail up) and parked and walked around. there were no tracks on any of those roads except for elk track.
Hiked the trail a few times with the wife and back packed in with the daughter for a weekend bear hunt. (it is amuch shorter hike up the trail then the road, but it is VERY STEEP the last 1/3 of a mile to the top :bash: )
There are always guys going around the gates up there during MF season. One year they lower gate was left unlocked for the whole season. i hike up there and had a rig come driving by me >:( but it was a "Disabled Hunter" that has hunted the area for many, many years, so it did not bother me, but if it was any one else, I would have been a little ticked off >:( >:( >:( >:(
Seen a few bulls and spike up there this summer, I even know where a dead cow is (or was) in the creek. She fell down the hill and broke her neck, died rite in the creek, and the yotes or bears never touched her, only the ravens.
There were a few trees blocking the road up towards the top, the last time i was in there.
But, if it was me. and some one got an elk up there and went back to get a rig to help pull it out. It would not piss me off.
I guess i am just easy going :dunno:
Post by: BAR C3 on November 03, 2010, 09:03:27 PM
That use to be the Disabled Unit up there until everyone started riding motorcycles around the gate. These guys are the ones screwing the disabled guys that deserve to hunt up there.
Post by: royalbull on November 03, 2010, 09:06:17 PM
Post by: Wazukie on November 03, 2010, 09:09:01 PM
Post by: royalbull on November 03, 2010, 09:17:11 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on November 03, 2010, 09:23:23 PM
Post by: Wazukie on November 03, 2010, 09:24:11 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on November 03, 2010, 09:40:25 PM
Post by: shedcrazy on November 03, 2010, 09:45:00 PM
Post by: royalbull on November 03, 2010, 09:52:25 PM
So the camp with the Red Dodge, motorcycles, and wall tent is gone? I left Friday and they looked like they were there for the long haul. Maybe I heard my brother wrong where they are camped. I know there was another camp further up where there are several camp spots. I don't care at this point because like I said, I will have there info soon enough.
Red Dodge and 2 wall tents still there quad hunters came from the 1906 wapiti camp green ford superduty is also camped down on the 1906
Post by: woodrat on November 03, 2010, 10:27:47 PM
it's not like this corner of the state isn't full of un-gated areas that people who want to truck hunt can drive around in. Heck, I can't even hunt off the back of my own land because there is an ungated road through there that turns into a freeway during rifle season. I can't even count the number of times this year I was up before dawn hiking in and was passed by a truck driving in or out. I finally gave up on that spot, there was just so much pressure on it.
Post by: BAR C3 on November 04, 2010, 06:37:25 AM
Post by: Hannibal on November 04, 2010, 06:59:37 AM
Post by: bear on November 04, 2010, 07:10:12 AM
If someone would take down the gates....they would not have to drive around them,,,,,,,,*censored* now a days everything is locked on the west side and I don't blame em a bit for wanting in,,,,, why should a horse be legal and not my quad?Because of their impact on the land and others. I don't think quad hunting should be allowed anywhere. :twocents:
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on November 04, 2010, 07:13:49 AM
Cause its the law Hannibal! Duhhhh...
Post by: FSTaxidermy on November 04, 2010, 07:46:43 AM
Post by: Skillet on November 04, 2010, 07:53:51 AM
why should a horse be legal and not my quad?
Because the game that I'm hunting doesn't get spooked by the sound of a horse doing donuts while tearing up a mountain meadow on the other side of a draw.
Or because hunting with horses is the culmination of a year long committment to care for, train and feed them. They're family members - not machinery that sits in the garage unthought of until needed to make hunting easier for you than the next guy who chooses to follow the rules.
Or because the tracks of a horse aren't nearly as destructive as the tracks of a quad.
Or because I don't want to hear the sound of your quad buzzing up and down trails while I'm trying to enjoy my limited time hunting in the woods. I like to hunt behind gates/in wilderness to avoid the intrusion of the modern world (yes, I even get little irritated when in the wilderness areas and I can hear an aircraft buzzing above).
Just a couple of reasons to add to the ones above. I could go on... serious pet peeve of mine.
Post by: grundy53 on November 04, 2010, 08:00:00 AM
About 8 years ago I was hunting out of state in Idaho and had a rutting bull screaming in with a rifle. Hiked in about four miles and parked at the gate. All of a sudden the bull shut up and disappeared. About the same time, I hear two 4 wheelers coming up. My hunting partner and I let them know how pist we were. The worse part was the came up the road knowing we were up there walking in. I will throw down with someone over it.
You can legally take quads behind most of the gates in Idaho.... so your going to throw down with someone for doing something perfectly legal?
Post by: woodrat on November 04, 2010, 08:12:13 AM
On a brighter note, though, one of the days during deer season this year, I hiked way around up over a ridge to get to a roaded clearcut the back way, quietly, hoping to have a better chance at catching a deer in the open at dusk. I was sitting up on the top of the cut by my trail, glassing the cut, when here comes a truck coming in on the road. The guy caught sight of me up there, stopped the truck, checked me out with the binocs, and actually backed out and left! That was the first and only time I've ever had a truck hunter actually yield to me when I was on foot. I wanted to give the guy an award or something.
Post by: grundy53 on November 04, 2010, 08:24:14 AM
You spoil someone's hard earned hunt that he hiked in for, because you're too lazy to walk in yourself, and that person is going to be PO'd at you, whether you're breaking the law or not. Lots of things are legal that are still rude and disrespectful. As far as horses vs quads goes, horses are quiet, and usually the people with them are going to be quiet and respectful as well. Quads are noisy and loud. And it's not like there's not tons of places for people to truck and quad hunt if they want to. Why can't quad owners leave some places quiet and undisturbed for people who want to hike? Does every single acre of public land have to be open to the internal combustion engine?
On a brighter note, though, one of the days during deer season this year, I hiked way around up over a ridge to get to a roaded clearcut the back way, quietly, hoping to have a better chance at catching a deer in the open at dusk. I was sitting up on the top of the cut by my trail, glassing the cut, when here comes a truck coming in on the road. The guy caught sight of me up there, stopped the truck, checked me out with the binocs, and actually backed out and left! That was the first and only time I've ever had a truck hunter actually yield to me when I was on foot. I wanted to give the guy an award or something.
I totally understand where you are coming from and for the most part I hike in too. Also if I was riding and saw you I would turn around too. I've done it many times. But I feel if you knowingly walk behind a gate that allows quads you should expect quads to be back there so don't think you have a right to get pissed let alone confrontational. You knew the deal going in. It was your choice. If you don't like it then do what I do.... hit the brush and get off the road.
Post by: Raul Duke on November 04, 2010, 08:32:07 AM
yes, hang 'em high.
x2
Post by: woodrat on November 04, 2010, 08:33:29 AM
That said, I'm not about to confront armed jerks on quads over their bad manners. And calling the sheriff around here will get you exactly nothing, which is probably why these guys feel free to ride quads behind signs that prohibit it.
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 04, 2010, 08:35:30 AM
We were hiking in about 10 miles past where he was. Where there is first a decommissioned road, to a trail, up the mountain and down into a hole. I understand the frustration with to much road traffic. But, that is why we get (far) off the road. In Idaho locked gates keeps out most trucks but not ATV's.
Post by: grundy53 on November 04, 2010, 08:37:45 AM
the area I was scouting that now has quads and trucks in it specifically has big signs way back on the first part of the road system that say that off road vehicles are prohibited. people don't seem to think that applies to them.
That said, I'm not about to confront armed jerks on quads over their bad manners. And calling the sheriff around here will get you exactly nothing, which is probably why these guys feel free to ride quads behind signs that prohibit it.
And if there is a sign saying they are prohibited then they shouldn't be there and they are in the wrong I was commenting on the gates in Idaho that usually allow quads behind them. Like I said if its LEGAL then you can't bitch.
Post by: grundy53 on November 04, 2010, 08:40:00 AM
Grundy, if you are walking where it is legal to ride quads it is kind of like being mad at a car for driving on the Highway. I would not be to hot to "throw down." Most gated roads are still legal for ATV's in Idaho. On the Gate there is a little sign that says what type of traffic is legal. I had a guy go bannans on a friend of mine when we were driving up the main road that led to a major forest road and, they were logging heavy on anyway. He felt that since he parked on the road everyone must park and walk in behind him. (On the main road.) He said, "Have some respect for the walking man." (Mind you it would be illegal to even start to hunt yet because we were not off the main road.) His walking on the road, if he were to shoot at something would be a crime. I told him, "Hey man, have some respect for the lazy road hunter. Get off the road and stir something up for us would you?" Oh God, he was pissed.
We were hiking in about 10 miles past where he was. Where there is first a decommissioned road, to a trail, up the mountain and down into a hole. I understand the frustration with to much road traffic. But, that is why we get (far) off the road. In Idaho locked gates keeps out most trucks but not ATV's.
Couldn't have said it any better. :tup: :tup:
Post by: bushmaster on November 04, 2010, 09:01:41 AM
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 04, 2010, 09:43:34 AM
We need to turn every punk hunter in for breaking laws and rules! It does everyone a favor by getting these losers out of the woods. Take their guns,trucks and fine them, strip them of their rights for life!! when this *censored* happens, call the cops asap. Game wardens are a part of wsp. If there is no warden available they will send out a trooper. Turn them in, help me and you and all the other REAL hunters out there. We dont need these dicks in the woods! I have turned in a few people for poaching, all of whom cant hunt in this state anymore! I sleep great at night knowing I helped get people like this out of the woods. The practice of turning in law breakers is your civic duty, would you watch your local bank get robbed? Or would you call the cops? Oh yeah, and the state gives you incentives for turning in losers, they give you a lot of points and cash. It might be the cash from the perps bank account, or the sale of their *censored*, so when I put in for a special hunt with 15 points given to me by turning in a puke, it makes me feel good, I get to hunt again, and they dont!!! :twocents:
Agreed.
And; imho
Eyes In The Woods is a good program. Take information plates, & descriptions; Be careful about direct confrontation. We are not Law Enforcement, if you contact/confront someone armed it can end badly for you in more ways than one. Seriously, leave confrontation of armed law breakers to the Professionals. And, when a person does, enjoy the additional preference points! :twocents:
Post by: bigtex on November 04, 2010, 10:25:45 AM
Game wardens are a part of wsp. If there is no warden available they will send out a trooper.
WDFW Officers are not a part of WSP. They are just simply dispatched by WSP. All state and some federal agencies are dispatched by WSP, but only troopers work for WSP.
Post by: bushmaster on November 04, 2010, 11:03:21 AM
Post by: buckmaster_wa on November 04, 2010, 11:04:42 AM
Post by: bigtex on November 04, 2010, 11:09:28 AM
Post by: bushmaster on November 04, 2010, 11:28:21 AM
Post by: woodswalker on November 04, 2010, 12:07:01 PM
Only had two days to hunt and both were tainted by motorcycles riding the trails and chasing the elk away from wherever we were. :bash: >:(
Post by: FullDraw on November 04, 2010, 12:11:27 PM
Post by: gasman on November 04, 2010, 12:28:15 PM
If you don't wan to see or hear motor vehicle, i suggest you hunt in roadless areas. You are going to find with the new travel management plan, they there my be gated roads open for OHV use weather you like it or not.
Hunters are not the only ones in the woods so get over it, there are many user groups out there, and i am sure that there are hikers that want to stop you from hunting on or around hiking trails.
If someone is breaking the law, take down the information and turn it in, period. Confrontation with a law breaker that does not occur against your person, is stupid. You can be looked as the aggressor and could be the one in jail or on the slab at the morgue.
Think with you head, not you feelings.
:con:
Go ahead and flame on. I am nutreal on this, and support both hunting and OHV use and i am not afraid to say it, and I do believe there should be more areas to ride OHV's in this state for recreation and hunting :P
Post by: woodswalker on November 04, 2010, 01:07:51 PM
I KNOW that there are other user groups out there.
WATCHING for game and scaring it back down is harrassment. Watching for hunters and running through near them is harrassment...and posting a spotter to WATCH FOR GAME AND HUNTERS is interfering, which IS a crime. Glass works both ways....so do Radios. When we hove into the LOS from Quartz, I watched carefully, saw watcher aquire partner, raise radio and less than 5 minutes later, here come bikes....when have been gone for HOURS (while we were out of sight), no bikes.
Yeah its all circumstancial..but it stinks to high heavens. Especially the watcher departing when WDFW came up Quartz in response to my call after i got LOS with the repeater on Peoh Point. and re-appearing after the WDFW left.
Post by: gasman on November 04, 2010, 01:28:01 PM
This is not a new discussion and many times i have seen guys post that OHV's should not be used durring hunting season. hell, i use those trails durringhuntingseason, it makes for easyier acces to some areas, in cluding teh area refered to in the first post.
So, I wounder what people would say if someone road in to an area, parked and hunted from there. There are many areas that have motorctcle trails that lead back to remote areas, and if someone rode a bike in, camped or just hunted for the day by foot.
What would other say to that :dunno:
Post by: woodswalker on November 04, 2010, 02:03:03 PM
[smg id=9940]
Post by: Wenatcheejay on November 04, 2010, 04:16:07 PM
Post by: dscubame on November 04, 2010, 04:21:59 PM
Post by: woodswalker on November 04, 2010, 04:28:46 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on November 04, 2010, 05:25:26 PM
Not this road! Big sign saying so. I have a quad, don't you think I would use it if I could? Found where they snuck in on the way out.About 8 years ago I was hunting out of state in Idaho and had a rutting bull screaming in with a rifle. Hiked in about four miles and parked at the gate. All of a sudden the bull shut up and disappeared. About the same time, I hear two 4 wheelers coming up. My hunting partner and I let them know how pist we were. The worse part was the came up the road knowing we were up there walking in. I will throw down with someone over it.
You can legally take quads behind most of the gates in Idaho.... so your going to throw down with someone for doing something perfectly legal?
As far as this situation, it's the blame game! Forest Service blames Plum Creek and Plum Creek blames Forest Service. Kind of surprises me because I worked in the woods and grew up in a logging communtiy and I know that the Forest Service is FULL of granola eating tree huggers. Neither could care less. So we may as well all start taking four wheelers around the gates up there! :yike:
I know that the good Christian guys live on Whidbey Island that have the keys to the gates that Plum Creek swears nobody have copies of. I guess I must be having visions of vehicles driving around.
Some crooked crap!
Post by: grundy53 on November 04, 2010, 05:33:56 PM
Not this road! Big sign saying so. I have a quad, don't you think I would use it if I could? Found where they snuck in on the way out.About 8 years ago I was hunting out of state in Idaho and had a rutting bull screaming in with a rifle. Hiked in about four miles and parked at the gate. All of a sudden the bull shut up and disappeared. About the same time, I hear two 4 wheelers coming up. My hunting partner and I let them know how pist we were. The worse part was the came up the road knowing we were up there walking in. I will throw down with someone over it.
You can legally take quads behind most of the gates in Idaho.... so your going to throw down with someone for doing something perfectly legal?
As far as this situation, it's the blame game! Forest Service blames Plum Creek and Plum Creek blames Forest Service. Kind of surprises me because I worked in the woods and grew up in a logging communtiy and I know that the Forest Service is FULL of granola eating tree huggers. Neither could care less. So we may as well all start taking four wheelers around the gates up there! :yike:
I know that the good Christian guys live on Whidbey Island that have the keys to the gates that Plum Creek swears nobody have copies of. I guess I must be having visions of vehicles driving around.
Some crooked crap!
In that case I agree with you. Just wanted to double check. I know when I first went over there I was very surprised, totally opposite of Washington.
Post by: gasman on November 04, 2010, 05:40:52 PM
The sign reads (as I remember) "Gate may be locked at any time".
I know where they get in at also, it dont take a rocket scientist to follow the tire tracks. The FS only put up a small plastic sign that says "No Vehicles", where the guys cross the creek. They made no attempt to block it, just a small sign.
Plum Creek abandoned that are years ago after they logged teh crap out of it. I believe they logged all tah tis possible on that of Peaches Ridge. I know they took every thing off teh top from teh 1914 eastward. Just a bunch of repods growing up.
Now when they were logging area, they kept a close eye on it and teh gates, but those roads beyond the gates have not been used in years. Legally that is.
Post by: BAR C3 on November 04, 2010, 06:05:53 PM
Now that i think about it, those gates are locke and no where does it say NO Vehicles Allowed.
The sign reads (as I remember) "Gate may be locked at any time".
I know where they get in at also, it dont take a rocket scientist to follow the tire tracks. The FS only put up a small plastic sign that says "No Vehicles", where the guys cross the creek. They made no attempt to block it, just a small sign.
Plum Creek abandoned that are years ago after they logged teh crap out of it. I believe they logged all tah tis possible on that of Peaches Ridge. I know they took every thing off teh top from teh 1914 eastward. Just a bunch of repods growing up.
Now when they were logging area, they kept a close eye on it and teh gates, but those roads beyond the gates have not been used in years. Legally that is.
It says authorized vehicles only. Gate can be shut (locked) at anytime.
As far as logging the crap out of it up there. Your right, but guess what theose elk have been all over those clearcuts. That is why your seeing a decrease in "seeing" elk in that unit. I have hunted it for some time and the units are all grown up. I logged and don't believe in raping the land, but logging is where these animals get feed.
I grew up hunting on the Olympic Peninsula and the hunting has went to crap because of the lack of logging. I also grew up hunting behind gates on bicycles and never violated that! And Surprise Surprise I had keys to the gates due to logging. Got pictures to prove that I bicycled my 5x5 Blacktail out five miles and had keys to the gate ;) Bottomline it is unethical and/or hunters code as far as I'm concerned.
And before anyone says how did the game eat before clearcuts? It's called Wildfires that were not put out!
Post by: gasman on November 04, 2010, 06:24:16 PM
The Wenatchee NF is no where near as bad as the Gifford Pinchot or Mt Baker/ Snoqualmie NF.
Every year I wait for a wild fire here on the west side to devour a butt load of NF forest land, and then maybe people will open there eyes, especially if it happens neer Seattle.
Post by: dscubame on November 04, 2010, 06:38:52 PM
Post by: bigtex on November 04, 2010, 06:48:19 PM
Post by: woodswalker on November 04, 2010, 06:52:18 PM
Great point on the wildfire comment. That is a true point that is often overlooked.
as a former Penninsula dweller...I can attest that the logging DID serve much the same purpose RE: food as fires did. Same with where i live now, less logging, less deer...due to less FOOD for them.
Watched a formerly PRODUCTIVE area slide into oblivion...tho in the last 2-3 years there has been more cutting, so I'm hopefull. Now to adjust the cougar population...found sign of 3 different cats up there and LOTS of kills that have been gnawed on.
Post by: BAR C3 on November 04, 2010, 06:54:10 PM
Great point on the wildfire comment. That is a true point that is often overlooked.Yeah I pull that one out whenever a tree hugger argues with me about clearcutting. These idiots are letting the beattles eat them all up now. :yike:
Post by: EDT on November 04, 2010, 07:26:01 PM
Post by: Missing on November 04, 2010, 09:04:16 PM
Post by: gasman on November 04, 2010, 09:07:01 PM
I carry a tub of Rapid set JB weld in my pack it sets in just under an hour for the trucks that go through the gate. it takes that sh1t eating grin right off their face when their key won't go in the lock to get back through the gate.
Vandalism, that works :bash:
Some time I can't believe the crap people post on here :bdid:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 04, 2010, 09:14:08 PM
Post by: Missing on November 04, 2010, 09:47:08 PM
Post by: norsepeak on November 04, 2010, 10:02:25 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 04, 2010, 10:03:29 PM
Post by: grundy53 on November 04, 2010, 10:32:14 PM
Sorry, maybe I should feel ashamed but I don't. I used to work for plum creek timber and it happens all the time. When you are issued a key or you issue a key to any contractor doing work, you have to sign an agreement that you WILL not make copy's or allow anyone else to use your key and in big bold letters you will ONLY use your key for work. and if you or an employee of yours are caught behind a scheduled locked gate with a firearm while working or not your employment or contract will be terminated. For the several years that I worked with them you very rarely had to fix a glued lock because the gate offender has to get the lock off to get out. It pisses off the timber company as much as it does the hunters. Once they are stuck behind a locked gate they will rarely try it again.
Well if you going to do stupid *censored* like that and use your justification then I hope you stay on plum creek land because a lot of other gates you can legitimately get keys to. Like Weyerhouser employees can drive behind a lot of their gates to hunt. Plus some other logging companies. Also there is smaller family owned tree farms like my families. Plus dnr.
:bash: :stup:
Post by: logger on November 05, 2010, 05:37:07 AM
Post by: WDFW Hates ME!!! on November 05, 2010, 06:21:11 AM
Post by: ICEMAN on November 05, 2010, 06:36:18 AM
Sorry, maybe I should feel ashamed but I don't. I used to work for plum creek timber and it happens all the time. When you are issued a key or you issue a key to any contractor doing work, you have to sign an agreement that you WILL not make copy's or allow anyone else to use your key and in big bold letters you will ONLY use your key for work. and if you or an employee of yours are caught behind a scheduled locked gate with a firearm while working or not your employment or contract will be terminated. For the several years that I worked with them you very rarely had to fix a glued lock because the gate offender has to get the lock off to get out. It pisses off the timber company as much as it does the hunters. Once they are stuck behind a locked gate they will rarely try it again.
Holy crap, talk about an immature move.
So if some legitmate user of the land gets injured and is driving out of the area to get to a hospital and finds he is locked in, this is OK with you?
Grow up.
Post by: rasbo on November 05, 2010, 06:52:48 AM
Post by: DuckDr.Duke on November 05, 2010, 10:27:02 AM
Post by: woodrat on November 05, 2010, 01:26:26 PM
Most areas in this state need some major cearcutting. Only about 1% of teh NF is logged any more due to the greenies filing alaw suit every time they try to do any logging
you look at google satellite photos of my neighborhood and it is very, very much more than 1% brown at any given time. I can assure you that we are not in "need" of more and bigger clearcuts. And what is wrong with 1%, anyway? That represents a 100 year rotation, which might actually be enough time to grow some quality timber instead of the pulp grade crap they are milling 2x4s out of these days. Have you tried to buy a 2x12 lately? Not too easy to find one that doesn't have the pith and two bark edges in the same board, and yet that's what the floor of new houses are framed with. It's shameful. A 30 year rotation on a tree species that can live for 1000 years is ridiculous.
Not only that, but the immense mud runoff from big clearcuts clogs up salmon spawning grounds, too. During the last big rainstorm the Gray's was practically straight mud, due to some very large clearcuts from this summer that you can see from the highway, and a huge ongoing job further upriver. I'm not against all clearcutting, but the size and scale and steepness of the slopes they're doing it on is really over the top.
I don't know about all areas of the state, but the SW corner has never been a big wildfire region, and yet it seemed to have plenty of deer and elk at the time of first white people contact. I don't think we need to have 25-30 year rotations and 200 acre clearcuts all over the place in order to have game animals.
:twocents:
Post by: gasman on November 05, 2010, 01:41:31 PM
Have you been to the NF lately, there are not fresh clearcuts :bash:
Much of the area in SW WA is private timber company and most of your NF will found along the cascade's. There is so little clearing going on the NF land the animals are pushed to where the food is. You wan to see a more even spread of animals, "Checker Board Clear cut", not put it all in one area.
I do agree that land rape is not necessary, but to nearly stop cutting is reckless. The trees grow, they block the sunlight from hitting the grown, the plant growth on the ground (food source for most animals) dies off. The animals have to seek better food else where. pushing all the animals in to one area and causing food shortage for the winter and there starts the starvation. Just like we have every winter in the St Helens area.
Sorry for the random thoughts and going all over the board. Be back later, gotta go. :bash:
Post by: Skillet on November 05, 2010, 01:49:05 PM
The local ATV club as been encouraged by the Ranger district to ride behind the gates to "put tracks up there to show use" so that those roads can be included in the travel management plan.
That will land the some Ranger district in a lot of hot water if it's true... you sure the ATV club isn't just saying that to justify their toys and blowing by the guys that hoof it in?
Post by: woodrat on November 05, 2010, 01:54:38 PM
I don't spend a lot of time on NF land, and I haven't spent much time in the eastern part of the state, either. But I know what abusive logging practices look like, and I know what causes rivers to turn to mud whenever it rains hard. I know what crappy quality logs and lumber look like, too. There's no reason on earth besides the lack of fast, short term profit that land in my corner of the state could not be managed a LOT better, for better quality salmon streams AND better quality lumber, too. 100 year rotations would be a great place to start.
Post by: woodswalker on November 05, 2010, 02:04:05 PM
As one who was run out of the forest products industry in the early 1990s (along with 2 brothers and out father), "treehuggers" are not my fav sort...
Simpson Timber HAD a 99 year Sustained-Yield agreement with the Forest Circus until they (FS) abrogated it in the 1990s. That nearly DESTROYED my home town and a LOT of livelihoods. I spent a LOT of time as young teen planting those clearcuts that Simpson worked. Then spent time making them.
I have had friends killed and maimed by the :tree1: bastids who spiked trees and sabotaged equipment...I'd sooner see them go under a Cat into the roadbed.
Post by: JackOfAllTrades on November 05, 2010, 02:11:43 PM
-Steve
Post by: woodrat on November 05, 2010, 04:27:24 PM
There's always going to be people on both extreme ends of this issue: the radical, " we should never log anything" people, and the "every single acre of forest land should eventually be clearcut and turned into a mega tree farm" people. I'm neither. If you think I should be thrown under a Cat for not sharing exactly your views on forestry, well, gosh, I guess there's nothing more to say on the subject, then.
Not everyone who likes forests and better logging practices spikes trees.
But I'm afraid I've contributed to a massive thread de-railment here. I'll shut up now.
Post by: Missing on November 05, 2010, 04:39:40 PM
Post by: gasman on November 05, 2010, 05:18:13 PM
If we all would have an open mind and look at both sides of the issues and not demand that our is teh one and only, then thing swill be better for all, BUT we know that is not going to happen. Some people are just to stubburn to see through anothers eyes.
Confertation is never good, for either party....
Don't assume......
If you believe there is wrong doing going on, document it and share it with the propper athorities........
Foresty is good, but to extreme, can be damaging..........
Lack of foresty is also damaging to wildlife...........
Just my :twocents: on this thread.
Post by: logger on November 05, 2010, 06:21:50 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on November 05, 2010, 07:08:43 PM
If anyone thinks the way were doing things now with limited logging, you need your head examined!
Post by: spikehunter on November 05, 2010, 07:23:56 PM
Post by: Missing on November 05, 2010, 07:36:44 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on November 05, 2010, 07:43:07 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on November 05, 2010, 08:02:27 PM
There is no consistency in this country! There is another thread were some guys got arrested on the Westside for this same offense.
Post by: SemperFidelis97 on November 05, 2010, 08:07:48 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on November 05, 2010, 08:11:20 PM
Allot of us like the gates so we can seperate ourselves from the other lazy ass hunters who refuse to get out of their trucks. Also many of us own quads guess where they stay during hunting season IN THE GARAGE get off your ass!!! some people are just sad excuses for sportsman. Many of us have experienced this myself included it never ceases to really piss me off.:yeah:
Won't be hunting behind those gates anymore when Nobody gives a crap. I guess I'll head to the Wilderness again.
Post by: logger on November 05, 2010, 10:30:05 PM
Post by: FullDraw on November 06, 2010, 12:31:31 PM
Post by: BAR C3 on November 06, 2010, 07:38:36 PM
I don't know how we got so off topic, but I logged a piece in the little naches about 7 yrs. ago and most of that timber appeared good on the stump but once it hit the ground it was rotten as hell, I would venture to say we lost 35% to defect, had it been managed from the get go it would have gone close to 15% loss.I think most of the old growth might as well stand, mills can't cut it anyway's.I know the thread started heading toward logging but the thread was started because of the morons violating the law. Can't do anything about the lack of logging. But I can sure hit someone's pocketbook for being a D!CK.
Post by: wildbill100 on November 07, 2010, 04:07:01 PM