Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Other Big Game => Topic started by: Kain on November 15, 2010, 12:54:21 PM

Title: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Kain on November 15, 2010, 12:54:21 PM: Billythekidrock asked about how the new cougar regs would effect the harvest numbers at the WWPHA meeting. Looks like the new regulation have really reduced the number of lions harvested. The harvest went down from and average of 199/yr to a 142 last year. That is a pretty severe drop. If we have a similar year this year we could really see a boom in cougar population.

Year Female Total cats Source
2009 72 142 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2009/reports/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2009/reports/cougar.php)
2008 106 188 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2008/reports/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2008/reports/cougar.php)
2007 100 201 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2007/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2007/cougar.php)
2006 96 200 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2006/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2006/cougar.php)
2005 78 202 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2005/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2005/cougar.php)
2004 102 208 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2004/cougar.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2004/cougar.pdf)
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Uplandbum on November 15, 2010, 01:24:22 PM: Not looking for an argument Jimmy but if you find a real source i.e. Journal Article instead of some town paper, you will find that there is a positive correlation between increased cougar hunting and increased cougar complaints. If interested PM me.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Kain on November 15, 2010, 01:47:35 PM: Quote from: Uplandbum on November 15, 2010, 01:24:22 PM
Not looking for an argument Jimmy but if you find a real source i.e. Journal Article instead of some town paper, you will find that there is a positive correlation between increased cougar hunting and increased cougar complaints. If interested PM me.

Im interested in what your sources are on that. More hunting=more complaints? :dunno: Not arguing just want to see the source for that.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: billythekidrock on November 15, 2010, 04:55:20 PM: Quote from: Kain on November 15, 2010, 12:54:21 PM
Billythekidrock asked about how the new cougar regs would effect the harvest numbers at the WWPHA meeting. Looks like the new regulation have really reduced the number of lions harvested. The harvest went down from and average of 199/yr to a 142 last year. That is a pretty severe drop. If we have a similar year this year we could really see a boom in cougar population.

Year Female Total cats Source
2009 72 142 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2009/reports/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2009/reports/cougar.php)
2008 106 188 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2008/reports/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2008/reports/cougar.php)
2007 100 201 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2007/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2007/cougar.php)
2006 96 200 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2006/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2006/cougar.php)
2005 78 202 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2005/cougar.php (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2005/cougar.php)
2004 102 208 http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2004/cougar.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/harvest/2004/cougar.pdf)

Great work Kain.
It will be interesting to see the results over the next couple years.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: bobcat on November 15, 2010, 04:59:49 PM: Do these numbers include the cats killed outside of the general seasons, with the special permits?
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Houndhunter on November 15, 2010, 05:05:32 PM: Quote from: bobcat on November 15, 2010, 04:59:49 PM
Do these numbers include the cats killed outside of the general seasons, with the special permits?
they should

i would also like to here what you have to say uplandbum, are you saying when more cats are killed theres more complaints?
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Kain on November 15, 2010, 05:50:47 PM: What do you guys think is the biggest factor in reduced harvest numbers? Weapon specific seasons, one tag, or removing four months from the general season? Or do you believe it has to do with fewer cats or fewer females? :rolleyes:

I would say its the reduced season, more specifically the last three months but that is just my guess.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: billythekidrock on November 15, 2010, 05:54:16 PM: I feel that the shorter rifle season and changing some units permit has a lot to do with it.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Special T on November 15, 2010, 06:02:58 PM: Tag specification for sure... I bet most of those harvested without special permits are on accident. :twocents: Aside from some of you dedicated predator hunters, who in the hell wants to go out cougar hunting when its bow season and you have a rifle tag? or visa verse..
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Kain on November 15, 2010, 06:13:19 PM: Quote from: billythekidrock on November 15, 2010, 05:54:16 PM
I feel that the shorter rifle season and changing some units permit has a lot to do with it.

I think you are right. The units that still have a season that goes until March 31.

Total cats taken
2009 45
2008 46
2007 48
2006 54
2005 36
2004 36

Seems like the numbers are right in line with past years. Those units didnt seem too effected by the weapon specific seasons and loosing a month off the beginning of the season. Of course this only based off one year so who knows.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Machias on November 16, 2010, 03:20:13 PM: Quote from: Uplandbum on November 15, 2010, 01:24:22 PM
Not looking for an argument Jimmy but if you find a real source i.e. Journal Article instead of some town paper, you will find that there is a positive correlation between increased cougar hunting and increased cougar complaints. If interested PM me.

I sure hope your not going to cite the paper written by the lady claiming the increase in harvest of adults cats leads to increase in complaints because the adult cats are keeping the juvenile cats in line and teaching them manners. Talk about a study bought and paid for by the environmental wack jobs. You get increase in complaints when the young have no where else to go because the mature toms do not share their territories. The young who are not efficient hunters yet get into trouble when they move into marginal areas, not because of increased hunting pressure. That study is Disney at it's worst.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Houndhunter on November 16, 2010, 03:25:44 PM: :yeah: thats where i thought he was headed
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: BushMonster on November 16, 2010, 03:54:39 PM: We surely aren't driving them into town by hunting them.
Hopefully I can add another tick mark to the harvest report this year.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: blacktailer on November 17, 2010, 08:39:55 AM: Kind of what I was thinking also Machias. I saw a show some years back where they did the same thing with a herd of elephants where they had a problem with juvenile males tormenting the locals and were killing off a lot of the white Rhinos. They had no adult supervision and were all jacked up on testosterone. They brought in some adults and most of the problem went away. They kept the sub-adults in check. Totally different than predators and establishing/protecting their home ranges. I am just wondering if that lady saw the same show and thought she could apply it to all wildlife populations???.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: quadrafire on November 17, 2010, 08:48:40 AM: It would be interesting to be able to document whether the weapons issue is affecting this. Are hunters in the field seeing them and unable to harvest b/c of weapon, ie. archery only and shot was too long. Are the folks bear hunting with rifle in the early season seeing them and can't shoot etc.
I have only seen one and it was just a glimpse. Would have no way to even had a shot with rifle if it had been legal.
I'd say if you aren't hound hunting it is just luck. Maybe everyones luck is down this year.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: MADMAX on November 17, 2010, 08:58:01 AM: I have seen 4
called one in and shot her a few years back.
The regs are not only confusing but counterproductive, we were seeing cats up in Mazama /Harts pass area while deer hunting modern and could not shoot them
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Kain on November 17, 2010, 10:02:51 AM: I think, from the numbers I posted, the reduced season has far more effect than the weapon specific seasons. Since weapon specific season didnt seem to have an effect in harvest numbers they should just get rid of it.

You guys have to remember they wanted less cats harvested. That is why they changed the regs in the first place. They are looking at these numbers and think its a good thing. Of course they are basing their opinions off bogus population numbers in the first place.
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Machias on November 17, 2010, 04:37:16 PM: Quote from: Kain on November 17, 2010, 10:02:51 AM
Of course they are basing their opinions off bogus population numbers in the first place.

AMEN!
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Ridgeratt on November 17, 2010, 07:16:11 PM: Not sure if any one has seen this link but seems intresting

http://nrs.wsu.edu/Research/Carnivore/current.html (http://nrs.wsu.edu/Research/Carnivore/current.html)
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on November 17, 2010, 07:27:20 PM: I agree with Kain. We have a real problem with cats here. Not eating kids, but sightings all the time. They're as common as house cats.
I don't know why the WDFW has taken away 5 months of hunting them here. WTF ? Most of all the houndsman, that get drawn, seem to be from the coast and can only take a few cats per year. I don't understand the liberal thinking of this. >:( >:(
Title: Re: Cougar harvest reports.
Post by: Kain on November 17, 2010, 07:31:06 PM: Just look at the link posted above. Those studies set out to prove that hunting is bad and will find the facts to back that up. The spineless WDFW will swallow it all up to.

We all know that there are more human/cougar conflicts because there are more cougars that are looking for territory not already occupied by older males.