Post by: dirty24d on December 09, 2010, 08:19:39 PM
I'm asking because i know quite a few individuals who always file their deer as being harvested in one area which skews the numbers. I figure if i myself know of probably 10 guys that do this there are probably a ton more.
Second part of this is what do you think this does to the management of the area? Is it extremely harmful to the game counts, do you think it has resulted in areas having tighter restrictions because so many people claim they are pulling deer out of there..
Post by: chester on December 09, 2010, 08:21:50 PM
Post by: dewandgin on December 09, 2010, 08:31:13 PM
Post by: chester on December 09, 2010, 08:36:22 PM
Post by: dirty24d on December 09, 2010, 08:42:33 PM
Post by: luvtohnt on December 09, 2010, 08:49:57 PM
As far as for their personal gain the majority of people who hunt also go out and scout so if they don't find any sign they are going to move to another area, So your friends idea of forcing crowds to a different area is just plain stupid!!
Brandon
Post by: ICEMAN on December 09, 2010, 08:58:01 PM
Shouldn't proper game management be all about being in the field and personally observing game populations and carrying capacity, because expecting hunters, many who are in a big last minute dash to post any result so they can purchase a tag, is expecting too much in my opinion. Lastly, do we really need to know how long it took someone to harvest their game?
I would rather they drop the hunter reporting and rely on good ol' fashion boot earned observation and apply their schooling to what they find in the field.
Post by: chester on December 09, 2010, 08:59:57 PM
As far as for their personal gain the majority of people who hunt also go out and scout so if they don't find any sign they are going to move to another area, So your friends idea of forcing crowds to a different area is just plain stupid!!
Brandon
If only that were true. the majority? maybe. some? yes. every year we see more people show up in the area i hunt. with campers, atvs, and cheapy little maps printed off google from up north. they have never stepped foot in there before but opening day they show up. because the internet told them it was good, on a forum like this, on go hunt , and then they look at HARVEST REPORTS. idk how they get the idea if alot of animals are taken there they can just show up and do the same. I really wish the dept would use those numbers. But not put them out there. If those were kept under wraps and not released compliance would go up.
Post by: dirty24d on December 09, 2010, 09:03:57 PM
Post by: Special T on December 09, 2010, 09:06:56 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on December 09, 2010, 09:07:12 PM
Post by: dirty24d on December 09, 2010, 09:11:47 PM
Post by: dirty24d on December 10, 2010, 11:26:25 AM
cmon we can do better than that..
Post by: boneaddict on December 10, 2010, 02:41:06 PM
Post by: Bob33 on December 10, 2010, 02:55:32 PM
Post by: chester on December 10, 2010, 03:01:15 PM
Post by: Practical Approach on December 10, 2010, 03:06:17 PM
Personally, I feel that by asking hunters to post their success results, they have an easy out to blame hunters for the declining populations.....the hunters lied and skewed the results.Harvest is a piece of the puzzle for biologists to use to help them figure out what is going on in a specific area with game populations. Proper game management isn't always about the field. Sure, you need to spend a fair amount of time in the field but that is just part of the picture. Population surveys are great for getting population trend data on overall population size and sex rations including calving or fawning rates. While this information is great to compare year to year, it is also nice to look at bull and buck survival in your populations as well. If there aren't enough bulls or bucks escaping the hunting season among other environmental factors, then adjustments need to be made to hunting seasons. With the addition of harvest information it is easier to validate any buck or bull changes you are finding in your surveys.
Shouldn't proper game management be all about being in the field and personally observing game populations and carrying capacity, because expecting hunters, many who are in a big last minute dash to post any result so they can purchase a tag, is expecting too much in my opinion. Lastly, do we really need to know how long it took someone to harvest their game?
I would rather they drop the hunter reporting and rely on good ol' fashion boot earned observation and apply their schooling to what they find in the field.
Not to mention, surveys (time in the field) is a huge expense. For one, there are not enough biologist to spend all of their time surveying all of Washingtons elk and deer populations. Shoot, helicopter time alone runs around 800 bucks an hour for flight time. It would take big bucks that WDFW doesn't have to survey every GMU the way some folks feel they should be surveyed.
I think as an environmentally conscious hunter and a stewards of the land, we should be on our toes about reporting info as soon as you can. Reporting your harvest in a timely manner is on way a hunter can actively participate and help out to better manage populations.
I know I am extreme, but in my opinion you shouldn't get a tag the following year if you don't report your harvest by the deadline.
Post by: ouchfoss on December 11, 2010, 11:51:57 AM
Post by: Gringo31 on December 11, 2010, 11:57:42 AM
Quote
The wdfw uses the harvest reports to get harvest trends. Harvest trends help with population assessment of a given area.
Yet, hard to make any good use of harvest reports with game or fish when the tribe doesn't play nice in this dept.
Post by: boneaddict on December 11, 2010, 12:28:41 PM
Post by: chester on December 11, 2010, 01:01:59 PM
Post by: Annette on December 11, 2010, 01:13:00 PM
Post by: addicted on December 11, 2010, 01:20:24 PM
Post by: Little Dave on December 11, 2010, 02:42:15 PM
Ten dollars isn't a signifcant penalty considering the value of the information for both management and keeping hunting relevant in the ongoing debate about how to manage wildlife. Compare other late fees. Late with a financial payment these days the fee will probably be at least three times higher.
There should be a more substantial penalty for late reporting. I'd like to see the penalty set up as an option between a refundable deposit in the same amount as the license or the reportable tag restricted to a specific game unit and reduced date range which excludes opening day.
Post by: Snapshot on December 11, 2010, 02:59:28 PM
Post by: Little Dave on December 12, 2010, 09:17:22 AM
Post by: Practical Approach on December 12, 2010, 09:22:05 PM
I fill mine out accurately.Westside Tribes do.QuoteThe wdfw uses the harvest reports to get harvest trends. Harvest trends help with population assessment of a given area.
Yet, hard to make any good use of harvest reports with game or fish when the tribe doesn't play nice in this dept.
Post by: Bofire on December 13, 2010, 04:01:17 PM
Carl
Post by: steen on December 13, 2010, 05:13:13 PM
Post by: Little Dave on December 13, 2010, 06:01:54 PM
A few have mentioned that the state sent out bulletins about the wolves for some hunting in Sherman or Kelly Hill. That's how it is used now. After a number of years the state may be able to have a "you may also be interested in" tempting feature which cross references your reporting pattern with others to both maximize their sustaining revenue and optimistically, hunter success. It's kind of like how targeted ads work on some of the search websites.
In computer science, there's a phrase "garbage in, garbage out" which applies to this. If we as a group send the department incorrect reports, we shouldn't be expecting much more than incorrect management as a result. Send in an accurate report if you have the time... or sit back and enjoy the ED commercial and wonder how it all went wrong.
Post by: ML_Hunter on December 13, 2010, 07:12:55 PM
Yet the funny thing is I absolutely don't use harvest reports as a guidline to where I want to hunt. I still scout using my two feet.
...and a camera lens apparently :chuckle:
Fill it out accurately. WDFW may make decisions to close areas, shorten seasons, or not have a hunting season at all if folks don't fill out the report accurately :bash:. I typically fill mine out the day of my harvest. If for any other reason, just so that I do not forget :chuckle:
Post by: danceswitharrows on December 13, 2010, 07:29:02 PM
As to unit 121, no deer there :rolleyes:
Post by: huntnnw on December 19, 2010, 10:37:18 PM
Post by: MADMAX on December 22, 2010, 02:44:20 PM
They said do you really fill that out and send it in ?
I told them I did and accurately reported the GMU, but I guess looking at their reaction to me telling them that, under or not reporting, just to skew stats, is not something I ever thought much about before this year.
Post by: dirty24d on December 22, 2010, 09:29:44 PM
I talked to a couple of guys in Raymond this year while on an elk hunt , They just started laughing about harvest reports when I talked about success percentages.
They said do you really fill that out and send it in ?
I told them I did and accurately reported the GMU, but I guess looking at their reaction to me telling them that, under or not reporting, just to skew stats, is not something I ever thought much about before this year.
Same here, that why i started this poll. I have a feeling that its a pretty darn widespread practice of not reposrting accurate info or just reporting no animal killed.
Post by: MADMAX on December 25, 2010, 09:09:11 AM
They said they don't want others to be able to see where all the animals are being taken because of overcrowding.
Trust me and I am sure you agree its no secret which units hold the majority of elk.
I'll still report accurately at least at the GMU level
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 25, 2010, 09:35:48 AM
Post by: elkslayer069 on December 28, 2010, 07:52:42 PM
Post by: granola/hippyslayer on January 01, 2011, 06:43:46 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on January 01, 2011, 07:03:12 PM
if the harvest is dropping, they assume the opposite, and restrict the harvest,
so if you report falsely stating that you hunted in a different unit, that unit will have more permits, or some other type of change in the next 3 year cycle (WDFW Rule-making)
and the one you are actually hunting in will lose permits and opportunity, if you don't want crowds, I guess it could work in your favor...........
I tell the truth, because I just cannot seem to think about lying until its too late, and I like having other hunters in my area, because I go were they don't, and try to use other hunters to my advantage.
When you are working a Bull Elk, and he wont cross an opening because of road-hunters, or guys talking, or even walking down a road..........
I actually met a guy last year that confused me by talking about all the trails in an area with few trails (other than game trails), until I realized he meant roads that were gated he was walking on.......
Post by: Practical Approach on January 03, 2011, 12:53:24 PM
Well atleast we know the special permit people have to report accuratelyNot completely, they don't have to report that they got an animal... WDFW doesn't always get a chance to follow up with the hunter if they don't voluntarily report their harvest.
Post by: Packers10 on January 03, 2011, 01:04:52 PM
Post by: Practical Approach on January 03, 2011, 01:22:07 PM
Actually there is this neat little coefficient in statistics called a confidence interval....and believe it or not, it is used to measure the accuracy of an estimate. The great thing about a confidence interval is that it can be easily determined from a smaller subset of data....basically the WDFW has pretty good data indicating how many people lie versus tell the truth on their harvest reports. The large volume of data that the WDFW gets from the harvest reports is invaluable.Ok, so where does the states data fall in this confidence interval. What data or surveys are they using to determine liars vs non liars? I agree harvest reports are helpful tools, but I would question the states accuracy in determining whether people are lying or not.
Post by: Packers10 on January 03, 2011, 01:38:09 PM
I don't know, and I don't know. All I know is a little bit about statistics, and I can tell you that by sampling a subset of data, for instance asking 10 people if they lied or not, is a rather accurate way of getting a confidence interval. It really works well, people actually tell you if they lied - just look back at the posts on here :)....think of the political polls and how accurate they are (people lie about how they voted too). They don't poll very many people to get that level of accuracy and they have developed confidence intervals by asking if people have lied or not. I'm just saying the data the state collects should be pretty darn accurate - how they use it is another thing entirely.Actually there is this neat little coefficient in statistics called a confidence interval....and believe it or not, it is used to measure the accuracy of an estimate. The great thing about a confidence interval is that it can be easily determined from a smaller subset of data....basically the WDFW has pretty good data indicating how many people lie versus tell the truth on their harvest reports. The large volume of data that the WDFW gets from the harvest reports is invaluable.Ok, so where does the states data fall in this confidence interval. What data or surveys are they using to determine liars vs non liars? I agree harvest reports are helpful tools, but I would question the states accuracy in determining whether people are lying or not.
Post by: Jack Diamond on January 03, 2011, 01:44:41 PM
Post by: mulehunter on January 03, 2011, 03:00:38 PM
Since I Email to few different Head of WDFW, and Head of Defense. NONE OF THEM REPSONSED TO ME about my Experience.
Whatever.
Mulehunter