Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Deer Hunting => Topic started by: CP on April 14, 2008, 02:45:14 PM

Title: Black Tail
Post by: CP on April 14, 2008, 02:45:14 PM: I’ve taken mule deer and I’ve taken whitetail but I’ve never hunted black tail. Mules and WT are very different animals and require different strategies. Are BT similar to one or the other, or are they something completely different?
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: saylean on April 14, 2008, 02:48:08 PM: I personally think they are similar to Whiteys...in that they like the thick stuff.....

and over on the wet side...we gots plenty of that. They seem to be active after a nasty storm...just after it quits raining...check the clearings, etc....I am no expert however.

They dont taste as good to me as a Muley or a whitey though....they seem real gamey....
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Gobble on April 14, 2008, 02:55:28 PM: I think they are the hardest Deer species to hunt PERIOD. Way harder than WT. They hide in the nastiest cover. How many trophy BT do you see on the Posts? Not many. Not that they don't exist but they are extremely wary game and can disapear in a flash. Most Trophy BT are completly nocturnal
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: boneaddict on April 14, 2008, 03:35:15 PM: Closer to acting like a whitetail than muley in tactics to hunt.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: MountainWalk on April 14, 2008, 03:43:15 PM: i would say a mature buck bt is the hardest deer to come by. i have taken nice bucks of both whitetail and mule deer pesuasion. not afraid to say i have never taken a nice bt buck.

i feel that while they do use trails, they do not use the same ones everyday. i may be wrong.

some biologist feel that mule deer are the offspring of wtx bt, not wtxmd as always thought of.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Dman on April 14, 2008, 03:49:11 PM: A similarity between whitetail and blacktail is that you'll often find them in clearcut's, but even more so with blacktail. Blacktail will bed and feed in clearcuts, going into timber only occasionally, particularly when hunting pressure hits high levels. There are blacktail in the Monroe area to hunt, they do get some toads up there in the NF. The one drawback to some of the north-Sound units is that many of them have no late season.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 14, 2008, 04:41:51 PM: Quote from: boneaddict on April 14, 2008, 03:35:15 PM
Closer to acting like a whitetail than muley in tactics to hunt.

well *censored* then ive got this hands down....... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Houndhunter on April 14, 2008, 04:43:58 PM: shooting a bt is as easy as the rest, IMO. i have no problem getting a decent bt buck every year, you can see a pic of mine i got this year in my gallery and i classify that as a decent bt buck. now getting a big bt, 120-130 or above class, is harder. but is it harder than gettin a 150-160 or higher mulie?? not IMO. i have had chances at real nice bt, and one i shot and never found, and i've only been hunting deer 4years. or then again maybe im just an outstanding hunter, who knows? :chuckle:?
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 14, 2008, 05:27:23 PM: Quote from: Houndhunter on April 14, 2008, 04:43:58 PM
or then again maybe im just an outstanding hunter, who knows? :chuckle:?

not if you cant find them........ :chuckle: ....lol.... :chuckle:
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: bucklucky on April 14, 2008, 05:51:00 PM: Blacktails are tough to hunt especially mature bucks. I think the whitetails are alot more easy to pattern where a mature blackie is much harder. Mulies, they are not easy by no means, none of them are. Put your time in and you will better your chances . Still think blacktails have the edge though.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Red Dawg on April 14, 2008, 06:40:41 PM: black tail in my experience are the hardest to hunt. No questions asked. They are the ghosts of the forest.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: PolarBear on April 14, 2008, 06:47:18 PM: Blacktails are genetically much closer to whities. Actually mulies are a result of blacktail and whitetail cross breeding. Blackies have many of the same traits but like was said, whitetails are easier to pattern. It is really tough to pattern a mature blacktail buck. As far as which is tougher to hunt a mature buck I would put blacktails first, mulies second and whities the easiest. In my experience, whitetails are too damn predictable. If they werent I wouldnt have a half dozen+ P&Y whitie bucks. Whitetails are harder to sneak up on but they will often let their curiosity get them into trouble. I'll take a big, mature blacktail buck over any other deer any day.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: bucklucky on April 14, 2008, 11:41:53 PM: Right on Polarbear.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Bigshooter on April 15, 2008, 07:12:49 AM: I agree with Polarbear 100%.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: BlackTail on April 15, 2008, 10:31:13 AM: Not sure about the genetics (not disagreeing, I just don't know) but otherwise totally agree with PolarBear!
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: boneaddict on April 15, 2008, 10:52:47 AM: Not sure I agree with the biologists or not, but thats the stance of the leading biologists in the field.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: coonhound on April 16, 2008, 06:58:46 PM: I think the Blacktails are definitely the toughest, of course I don't have a ton of WT experience. If it's just a legal buck you're looking for not so tough, but if your really looking for a trophy 100" + you're going to have to do your homework and put your time in. My preference for hunting mature bucks is finding the largest tracks of roadless oldgrowth timber you can find and still hunting it extremely slow using your bino's often. I've been pretty fortunate to take my fair share of respectable Blacktails and almost all of them have been taken far from the crowds in some pretty dark timber.

Of course like everything else, lots of trophy blacktails get taken by "slob" hunters but if you want to be consistent you really need to work at it.

I also agree, of all the trophy's I prefer the Blacktail over all others.

As far as tactics, I really think blacktails are truly unique, they have some similarities to both the WT & MD but not enough to focus your efforts in either of those styles.

I say if you haven't you really need to, it can become addicting,
Coon
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: bucklucky on April 16, 2008, 11:16:47 PM: Nice reply Coon , I agree with ya man. Blacktails are tuff and addicting. I've killed 7 over 100. Gota put your time in for sure. Locked gates are your freind when looking for good blacktail country!
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Skyvalhunter on April 17, 2008, 05:45:13 AM: So you have killed 107 BT's?
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 17, 2008, 07:40:34 AM: I think Charlie means he has killed 7 bucks over 100'' SkyVal.

Nicely put coonhound, I love it when guys throw stones at 100'' blacktails, they obviously haven't hunted western wash very much. I will also lower the standard another 10'', as I have killed some ripper 2 points that were big ol mature bucks, just didn't have the genetics. Blacktails is where its at for me too. I love hunting whiteys due to high strung, come to the call "horns" nature, seems like they are always moving. I love the country muleys inhabit. I'll take bucks, any flavor over bulls anyday...
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: MountainWalk on April 17, 2008, 07:45:01 AM: coon, you are spot on.
having hunted and guided for mulies and whities, with succsess.
im not afraid to say that i have never killed a bt buck. my own personal min size is 3x3..
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Houndhunter on April 17, 2008, 08:30:43 AM: thats what i do, 3 point min. unless i see a big'ol forked horn, i would take that too
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Dman on April 17, 2008, 01:42:37 PM: Quote from: 257 Wby Mag on April 17, 2008, 07:40:34 AM
I think Charlie means he has killed 7 bucks over 100'' SkyVal.

Nicely put coonhound, I love it when guys throw stones at 100'' blacktails, they obviously haven't hunted western wash very much. I will also lower the standard another 10'', as I have killed some ripper 2 points that were big ol mature bucks, just didn't have the genetics. Blacktails is where its at for me too. I love hunting whiteys due to high strung, come to the call "horns" nature, seems like they are always moving. I love the country muleys inhabit. I'll take bucks, any flavor over bulls anyday...

There are some really nice regressed old blacktail out there. I killed a buck with worn teeth, pic was posted a while back from a PLWMA in '96, he was only 2x3, but weighed 160 gutted on Verne's scale (King Creek).
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: SkookumHntr on April 17, 2008, 01:53:10 PM: ---I'm 3pt min on blacktail as well, I've only shot two 2points and both were about 16" wide and I thought they were bigger. I wish they would turn the Skook into 3pt min.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Dman on April 17, 2008, 02:16:58 PM: Quote from: SkookumHntr on April 17, 2008, 01:53:10 PM
---I'm 3pt min on blacktail as well, I've only shot two 2points and both were about 16" wide and I thought they were bigger. I wish they would turn the Skook into 3pt min.

I don't, for one reason. After talking one on one with the former State big game manager, he didn't feel that 3 point or better for blacktail would ever be a good thing, or necessary on the West side. Blacktails just don't have the winter kill, or lack of escapement enough to warrant a 3 point or better, though there are a few 2 point or better units in Western Wa..
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Dman on April 17, 2008, 02:22:50 PM: If you are after the rack only, the harvest of some of those genetically maxed out two points is a good thing anyways.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 17, 2008, 02:29:58 PM: I wish they would put a point restriction on as well, but it will never happen, 667 is the #1 proiducer on the westside? Ithink?

Darrell, I remember Vern well, when I worked in the brush, we would stop by and BS him, even bought/traded several shootin irons from him. I'm not sure if they are re-verted, or just geneticlly inferrior? I have 3 2 points that are 18'' wide, that I think most guys would smoke, 6-7 year old type bucks. Never have weighed one, never really got into that, but I've killed some big bodied critters. Here's my avatar buck with the pard holdin it, I think he's abot 185, the pics don't do it ANY justice. Killed in 05, 667, 116 5/8, gross.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: MountainWalk on April 17, 2008, 02:34:49 PM: 257, what a dandy buck. you'd be a fool to pass him up.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 17, 2008, 02:38:26 PM: Thanks, I don't think ANYBODY would pass up a buck that in Wa, maybe down on Arrow 5 in Cali, but thats apples and oranges.IMO....
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: SkookumHntr on April 17, 2008, 02:42:11 PM: ---Ya, thats a shooter!
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Dman on April 17, 2008, 02:49:55 PM: Really nice looking buck, heavy and dark. I think a little of both. Sometimes even a injury during the growth season can stunt the horns for that year, but definitely also some bucks that will always be 2 points genetically.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: BC CHASER on April 17, 2008, 06:59:21 PM: Nice buck in the photo! I have grown up chasing these timber ghosts all my life and must say they are the smartest deer I have hunted. They do have both md and wt habits but many of their own as well. I have spent many seasons chasing specific bucks only to be one step behind or just out of range. Some I harvested and some died of old age.(the latter of the two seems to be the most common) As far as a trophy buck I believe any buck is a trophy if you really hunt. I have harvested several "book bucks" (100-135) and was on hunt with my bud in one of my spots and he ended up harvesting a buck I chased for two years who scored 157. (what a hog) Some of my most memorable deer are just average or unique bucks that dont even come close to book. There are 170 -190's still out their you just have to out smart them.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: RubblesPH on April 17, 2008, 07:16:06 PM: Wow 257...that thing has a huge body compared to this Columbia Blacktail I shot down in Roseburg OR a couple years ago.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: robodad on April 17, 2008, 07:21:26 PM: Not sure which category this will fall into but it is a Goldendale buck (GMU588) before it was an eastside unit !!

(https://hunting-washington.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10689/Goldendale_buck.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: bucklucky on April 17, 2008, 07:45:21 PM: Here is a big bodied buck, 120lbs of boned meat.(weighed)
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Houndhunter on April 17, 2008, 07:46:55 PM: rubbles
do you always get behind your deer like that when there dead? :nono:
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: mossback91 on April 17, 2008, 07:48:36 PM: Quote from: Houndhunter on April 17, 2008, 07:46:55 PM
do you always get behind your deer like that when there dead? :nono:
He likes to get the dieing quivers and they are no good once cold. got get em when warm and stilling twitchin.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: RubblesPH on April 17, 2008, 07:55:20 PM: Take em' how you can get em'

Got to get your moneys worth out of those expensive out of state tags!

Just kidding for you sensitive types...Rubbles
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: BC CHASER on April 17, 2008, 09:17:37 PM: 130 P&Y blacktail
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Coasthunterjay on April 17, 2008, 09:24:56 PM: Quote from: BC CHASER on April 17, 2008, 06:59:21 PM
There are 170 -190's still out their you just have to out smart them.

My eyes are peeled open and i am searching!
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: BC CHASER on April 17, 2008, 09:49:05 PM: Heard of a 204" out of anacortes a couple years back but the kid was too affraid to have it scored. A friend saw pictures and met the kid on a jobsite. Something didnt make sense on how he shot it.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 17, 2008, 10:19:15 PM: Here's a couple more honkers I've collected over the years, killed these 2 back to back years, out by Bucklucky's place. Grin....
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: BC CHASER on April 17, 2008, 10:21:39 PM: Beautiful buck 257
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on April 17, 2008, 10:21:57 PM: These last 2 are the same buck. 120 B&C, first one was 110''.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: BC CHASER on April 17, 2008, 10:26:22 PM: Thats an extremely light cap on that last one. Almost like a wt. Great buck though!
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: MasterTracker on April 18, 2008, 12:52:57 AM: O man you are talking to a black-tail crazed hunter! They are the ghosts of the northwest thats for sure! And they are the hardest deer to hunt! They are very hard to hunt if you don't know what in the hell your doing! they like to stick close to thick stuff and hang to the edges of clear cut's! but black tail deer have very small home ranges even for migratory blackies. Low land black tail's keep a half mile to quarter mile home range. And they know all the in's and out's such as were the escape routes are and where the big boy's are and stupid hunters are! since they have small home ranges that means a mature buck can bread with up 5 to 6 does a year and runs all the spikes outta town to be killed by hunter or other. So mature buck black tails may cover up to a 2 mile range and thats why they are hard to find! but common to see spikes together or buy them selves being stupid. I'm not going to tell the tricks of the trade but they are easy to kill once you know what to do. hint's for finding mature blackies be a master tracker!
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: bucklucky on April 18, 2008, 07:50:13 AM: Nice 257! I think that last one was in my yard wasnt it :chuckle: Just playin. I gota get my other bucks on here, just to lazy .
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: coastalghost on April 18, 2008, 10:10:40 AM: Nice bucks gents....We dont get near the hornage out in my neck of the woods. Big ol' white face and its go time....although my stepsons buck is exceptional for grays harbor county.

(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi135.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq155%2Fcovrlovr%2F2007blacktails004-1.jpg&hash=6847a8346875ff77347bfb7eb879437bb50f3578)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi135.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fq155%2Fcovrlovr%2F100_0167-1.jpg&hash=6e5592cbc181c97f9e0f03efb1686ed44177a14f)
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Dman on April 18, 2008, 10:35:38 AM: Remember that photo from F&H News, nice buck.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: bucklucky on April 18, 2008, 03:09:27 PM: Figure I will add a couple pics too.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Black Ghost on April 19, 2008, 05:15:31 PM: Well I don't have anything too profound to include, I am probably more lucky than skill. So my two cents is the more time you spend outdoors, and the more bucks you pass up increases the odds everyday.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl18%2Fbullbugle%2FBlacktail%2520Field%2520Photos%2F2001crissdeerB.jpg&hash=b93e87090fee32983ecef1cbd274e7659cd8ef52)
This is my 01 buck
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl18%2Fbullbugle%2FBlacktail%2520Field%2520Photos%2FDSCN10631.jpg&hash=8a2a2e6eb9f8f9692dc4bd3e03ab6358bf75162f)
my huntin partner's buck from 04? Field photos were on the throw away camera and didn't turn out :'(
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi92.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fl18%2Fbullbugle%2FBlacktail%2520Field%2520Photos%2Fdsc_023.jpg&hash=8ede8c2da706da6d26d6f2315267e22e3ac161a0)
My other huntin partners 01 buck. These are our best bucks.
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: G.R.K on April 21, 2008, 11:17:58 PM: Quote from: 257 Wby Mag on April 17, 2008, 02:38:26 PM
Thanks, I don't think ANYBODY would pass up a buck that in Wa, maybe down on Arrow 5 in Cali, but thats apples and oranges.IMO....
I would!!! :yike:
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: Kent Hunter on April 26, 2008, 01:11:54 PM: I think that they are the toughest of the three species to hunt. It,s just that their habits are so much different than either MD or WT. Like was stated before, most BIG blacktails become very nocturnal. Harvesting any BIG deer is thrilling and satisfying. But I think that I am more thrilled and proud of this buck that I harvested in 06 than any other big buck that I have taken. Plus I was able to harvest him less than 45 mins drive from my home here in Kent, WA. ;)
(https://hunting-washington.com/cpg/albums/userpics/10102/DSC02110.jpg)
Title: Re: Black Tail
Post by: DeKuma on April 26, 2008, 03:45:48 PM: I grew up in Kent/Covington area. Hunted all around there. Big bucks are there, just in little pockets and hard to get to.