Post by: Gutpile on December 16, 2010, 07:27:31 AM
Quote
Hunt for 703-pound bear attracts amazement, criticism
By Dave Buchanan
Wednesday, December 15, 2010
When hunter Richard Kendall crawled into the darkness of a bear den in late November, he was prepared to face the largest black bear he had ever tracked.
What he wasn’t prepared for was the 703-pound bear waiting for him or the firestorm that erupted after he left that den.
Kendall, 55, of Craig, said he’s had years of experience hunting black bears in Colorado and after seeing the 8-inch-wide tracks left by this bear, knew he had a potential record on his hands.
“I’ve been hunting bears all my life and that’s the biggest track I’ve ever seen,” Kendall said earlier this week.
The black bear season, which begins in September and runs through the deer and elk season, was in its final weekend when Kendall tracked the bear to its den in the Danforth Hills near Wilson Creek north of Meeker.
Kendall and a friend rushed into Meeker for a license and the next morning they were at the den.
Not knowing exactly how big the as-yet unseen bear was, “I really didn’t want to go in there so I sat on the den for five hours, hoping he’d come out or maybe already was out,” Kendall said.
Finally, Kendall decided the bear was home and cautiously squeezed into the den.
“I went in about 6 feet, and I could just see the tip of his nose without a flashlight,” Kendall said. “He was growling and snapping his jaws at me.”
Kendall said that after he shined his flashlight on the bear, the bear laid back its ears.
“A buddy told me when they lay back their ears they’re usually going to charge, so I decided I better shoot while I have the chance,” said Kendall, who was carrying a .45-70 caliber lever-action rifle.
It took Kendall and several of his friends most of an hour to drag the bear out of its den and another 30 minutes to get it to Kendall’s truck.
The bear weighed 703 pounds. That is about 50 percent more than most large black bears, which usually top out at 450–500 pounds.
The bear’s skull, which is how official scorers from the Boone & Crockett Club determine record-worthy animals, measured prior to drying at 22 and 5/8 inches. The state record bear, killed in Mesa County in 2007, measured 22 and 9/16th inches.
Kendall’s bear, which stretched 9-foot, 6-inches from nose to toes, will be remeasured after a 60-day drying period.
Kendall said once the word got out about the immense bear, people stopped him on the street to congratulate him.
“People I don’t even know would stop and talk about that bear,” said Kendall, a native of Craig who teaches rifle and handgun shooting skills.
But Kendall soon discovered some reactions weren’t quite so positive.
After the Craig Daily Press ran a story on its website about the bear, most of the reader comments, nearly all of which were anonymous, were harshly critical of Kendall’s actions.
One anonymous reader said, “This article & mentality behind the hunter makes me truly sick. How is shooting a bear in a cave ‘hunting’ ... ?”
Another reader wrote, “My family has been hunting for generations in Colorado, and I can tell you that this is not sportsmanship, it is just a plain case of cowardness.”
One of the few signed letters came from James Mense (no hometown given), who wrote he was a lifelong hunter but “the idea of shooting a bear after it has entered its den to begin hibernation is repulsive to me.”
The killing “may be legal, but it is definitely not ethical,” Mense wrote.
Kendall’s actions, while a bit unusual, were legal, said Division of Wildlife spokesman Randy Hampton.
“Currently, there are no regulations prohibiting someone from crawling into a den after a hibernating bear,” Hampton said. “This is the first instance we are aware of a bear being taken in this manner.”
Hampton said no one from the Division of Wildlife, other than the local officer who checked the bear as required by regulations, has spoken to Kendall about the bear incident.
“We are aware the bear was taken and we have heard from a number of concerned people regarding the manner in which this bear was harvested,” Hampton said.
While Kendall’s actions were legal, “the idea of shooting a hibernating animal certainly raises some ethical issues,” Hampton said.
Emphasizing there now are no regulations regarding hunting a denned animal, Hampton said division officials “are discussing” possible changes to the current rules.
Kendall, for his part, is dismayed and a bit angry over the continued rain of criticism.
“I think these (critics) are just jealous of what I did,” Kendall said. “It was something that was positive at first but then you get all these e-mails and letters and stuff.”
Kendall said he wanted no more publicity about his bear.
“I’m tired of people coming up to me and saying things that aren’t true to me and my wife,” Kendall said. “People are making more of it than what it was and I’m tired of dealing with all the (stuff).”
Post by: dirty24d on December 16, 2010, 07:34:35 AM
It's not for me, i wouldnt do it but I'm not terribly up in arms about it either. Theres a signifigant amount of risk this fellow took going into that den like being mauled and eaten in a confined space. So yeah is it ethical ehhh not really but to each their own i suppose..
Post by: krout81 on December 16, 2010, 07:35:41 AM
Post by: Gutpile on December 16, 2010, 07:36:12 AM
I dunno I really dont see how it's any different then shooting a spring bear... Most spring bears I've seen are oblivious to everything except gorging on anything they can find to get their strength and metabolism going again. It wasnt sleeping based on the story this guys tells. In its den yes but sleeping no. It's not really my cup of tea to crawl in an animals den to shoot it, but that doesnt make him a coward in my opinion.
Well for one thing a spring bear can run away. A denned up bear is trapped. The more I think about this the more I dislike it. Coward? Not quite the word I'd use. Not to many "cowards" are going to crawl into a den that has 7"-8" tracks leading to it. :chuckle:
Post by: boneaddict on December 16, 2010, 07:37:18 AM
Post by: Big10gauge on December 16, 2010, 07:40:51 AM
Post by: high country on December 16, 2010, 07:41:26 AM
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on December 16, 2010, 07:42:29 AM
Joe
Post by: krout81 on December 16, 2010, 07:45:38 AM
Use artificial light to hunt wildlife. (Having a firearm with cartridges in the chamber or magazine, or loaded with powder or a ball, or a strung, uncased bow while trying to project artificial light into an area where wildlife can be found is prima facie evidence of a violation.)
He should be fined and the bear taken away he told the story and had it published if its not true tough *censored*
Post by: runamuk on December 16, 2010, 07:48:52 AM
if that bear had been simply snoozing in a clearcut how many here would have passed :dunno: I sure as hell wouldnt.
Post by: high country on December 16, 2010, 07:50:39 AM
Post by: krout81 on December 16, 2010, 07:54:04 AM
Post by: bobcat on December 16, 2010, 07:54:35 AM
Post by: RAMSFAN on December 16, 2010, 08:02:32 AM
Post by: cmiller85 on December 16, 2010, 08:25:47 AM
According to the article the bear was not sleeping. Following the biggest bear track you have ever seen into a den and shooting him is a whole hell of a lot more impressive to me than having 10 dogs run him up a tree. He was no less "trapped" in this den than he would have been up a tree.
The only issue I saw reading the article was the whole flashlight incident.
Post by: high country on December 16, 2010, 08:29:37 AM
I'm not quite sure what the big deal is? This bear was in a hole? So what?
According to the article the bear was not sleeping. Following the biggest bear track you have ever seen into a den and shooting him is a whole hell of a lot more impressive to me than having 10 dogs run him up a tree. He was no less "trapped" in this den than he would have been up a tree.
The only issue I saw reading the article was the whole flashlight incident.
I am in your camp. I have trouble with the light, and the fact that guys might read this and go poking their heads into a den.....all that aside, he did track and kill a bear
Post by: runamuk on December 16, 2010, 08:35:57 AM
Quote
Kendall’s actions, while a bit unusual, were legal, said Division of Wildlife spokesman Randy Hampton.
“Currently, there are no regulations prohibiting someone from crawling into a den after a hibernating bear,” Hampton said. “This is the first instance we are aware of a bear being taken in this manner.”
Post by: Ray on December 16, 2010, 08:40:46 AM
Post by: Houndhunter on December 16, 2010, 08:42:34 AM
. Following the biggest bear track you have ever seen into a den and shooting him is a whole hell of a lot more impressive to me than having 10 dogs run him up a tree. He was no less "trapped" in this den than he would have been up a tree.
dogs are way more impresive, but thats just me :chuckle:
i would shoot it, be quite a rush i think. not as cool as seeing 10 dogs run one up a tree, but that bear wouldnt tree anyways
Post by: uplandhunter870 on December 16, 2010, 08:45:04 AM
you want to crawl into the den of a 6.5 foot bear while hes in it, head first, you go right ahead ill be sitting on a large rock a ways away writting your application to the darwin awards comittee
Post by: Gutpile on December 16, 2010, 08:46:09 AM
i dont have a problem with this at all, well the flashlight part a little. the dude is a crazy moron he lucky a bear that sized gave him some warning gestures instead of simply just swinging for the fences at the idiots head
you want to crawl into the den of a 6.5 foot bear while hes in it, head first, you go right ahead ill be sitting on a large rock a ways away writting your application to the darwin awards comittee
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Ray on December 16, 2010, 08:47:05 AM
Post by: Woodchuck on December 16, 2010, 08:47:44 AM
Post by: Hornseeker on December 16, 2010, 08:55:29 AM
The guys got sack...if you say he doesn't, you've probably never tried crawling into a dark cave with a bear...
I'm also with Houndhunter... Much more exciting and fun having the dogs run him. But that bear would have never treed, which would have been more exciting yet, getting in and killing a bear that big on the ground would be the ULTIMATE!!! DAM!
Post by: cmiller85 on December 16, 2010, 08:57:09 AM
. Following the biggest bear track you have ever seen into a den and shooting him is a whole hell of a lot more impressive to me than having 10 dogs run him up a tree. He was no less "trapped" in this den than he would have been up a tree.
dogs are way more impresive, but thats just me :chuckle:
i would shoot it, be quite a rush i think. not as cool as seeing 10 dogs run one up a tree, but that bear wouldnt tree anyways
Well I must admit i've never actually witnessed first hand 10 dogs tree a bear. Being that your handle is Houndhunter, I will take your word for it. :)
My point was that some hunting methods are more harshly scrutinized than others for reasons that sometimes don't make much sense. Well, at least to me. :chuckle:
Post by: BlackRidge on December 16, 2010, 09:00:57 AM
Post by: the1rod on December 16, 2010, 09:36:57 AM
Post by: Tony 270 on December 16, 2010, 09:44:50 AM
:chuckle: the argument for when you have no argument, throw out the jealousy card :chuckle:
Post by: YellowDog on December 16, 2010, 09:58:40 AM
Again, I wouldn't have done what he did but we all make our own decisions on ethics when we go into the woods and as long as it is legal we should stand behind this individual as a legal hunter. At the same time we are supporting him, if we disagree with the law, we can push for a change so it doesn't happen again.
As we know, there are people who believe that hunting with hounds or over bait is unethical and look how easy it was for the antis to take that right away. We need to stand together more often in my mind. For the record, if I lived in that state, I would want the law changed so that you can't take a hibernating bear but if he was able to track the bear, crawl inside the cave, see it awake, growling, jaw popping, etc. in my mind it wasn't hibernating. Like someone else said, if this is outlawed, I think you would have to outlaw shooting a bear when running hounds and they run them into a cave.
Post by: grundy53 on December 16, 2010, 10:26:59 AM
Who cares where it was killed he broke the law to do it. If he went in without a flashlight it would have been legal, stupid but legal. HE broke the law according colorado state
maybe but the law might have been taken out of context. it seems to me that after all the public copmlaints to the game department they looked into it and said he didn't do anything illegal. I think that the game department in Colorado probably knows their laws better then us.
Post by: boneaddict on December 16, 2010, 10:38:00 AM
Post by: TheHunt on December 16, 2010, 10:43:39 AM
Post by: BLUEBULLS on December 16, 2010, 11:25:07 AM
I don't have a problem with what he did. Sounds like an exciting hunt, and took a lot of skill in tracking that bear to its den. It's just a bear. Not like there's a shortage of them, and not only that, but it was a huge bear, and probably very old, and may not have lived much longer anyway.
my thoughts as well.
Post by: croix on December 16, 2010, 11:43:10 AM
Crawl into a hole with one in Spetember and see how it turns out.:chuckle:
Post by: Machias on December 16, 2010, 11:58:30 AM
Post by: Kain on December 16, 2010, 12:00:04 PM
We dont have to worry about hibernating bears here since the season only runs into Nov and they dont really do much hibernating here anyways. I would try to stay away from a den though just because a denning bear is more likely to be a Sow with cubs and I would not like to be forced to shoot a bear because I put myself in a dangerous spot. That is not self defense in my book that is carelessness.
Post by: wsucowboy on December 16, 2010, 12:09:18 PM
Post by: Curly on December 16, 2010, 12:20:18 PM
I don't have a problem with what he did. Sounds like an exciting hunt, and took a lot of skill in tracking that bear to its den. It's just a bear. Not like there's a shortage of them, and not only that, but it was a huge bear, and probably very old, and may not have lived much longer anyway.
my thoughts as well.
+2
Post by: Ray on December 16, 2010, 12:33:44 PM
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The folks that are critical, what would you have the guy do?I wouldn't have that guy do a thing. He can do whatever he wants. But I can also state without having to hide in a corner that I don't hunt animals that way. It doesn't mean I am going to write hate mails, am jealous or the like.
Quote
Try and spook it out and then shoot it?
Again, he is welcome to do as he pleases. But since people are talking about it openly I offered up my thoughts. There is a difference between what I would do and what he did. I thought that was what we were talking about. Not what we would have someone else do. People who hunt within the law are no problem for me.
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Wait for it to come out? Wait till spring and then shoot it?I don't see why not.
Quote
It's in a hole so it's safe?I didn't see a person make that claim that an animal is completely safe in a hole. Probably no more safe than I am in a building I suppose. Not sure where you were going with that one.
Quote
So would you shoot a bedded deer/elk?Yes, Why not? It's not the same as being contained by earthen walls I suppose. I think the example is an attempt at drawing parallels between two examples, but it just doesn't seem to work out to me.
Quote
I know you'll say well they could get up and run away. Trust me if that bear wanted out of that hole there wasn't much going to stop him...except the .45-.70. I have seen bears and cats on video unass a cave, lickty split! They have an avenue of escape, might be over you or through you, but if you don't think a 703 pound animal could leave if it wanted to, your wrong.
I think the for most part you want to silence criticism. I think if the bear wanted to get up and run away he would have ate that guy for breakfast. Seems like he would rather have taken a nap. Well, he certainly took a dirt nap.
My criticism isn't meant to be translated as any sort of outrage. On the contrary. I think it's a fine bear. I also think it's fine to openly state I don't hunt that way and there's no shame in saying that and there's no bush I have to hide behind any more than this guy who killed the bear has to. 8)
Post by: flinger on December 16, 2010, 01:05:14 PM
Should of done it like this though
Skin Grizz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcsXC2xFis4#)
Post by: grundy53 on December 16, 2010, 01:11:55 PM
Been in a bear den head first that is some spooky chit never with anything that big though.Killed a big bear cool for him
Should of done it like this though
Skin Grizz (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcsXC2xFis4#)
Thats too funny me and my buddies were quoting that scene the whole week we were hunting in Idaho this year. " can ya skin griz" "skin that one and i will get ya another one" :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Ray on December 16, 2010, 01:14:33 PM
Post by: Kain on December 16, 2010, 01:27:07 PM
Post by: Houndhunter on December 16, 2010, 01:34:52 PM
Post by: FC on December 16, 2010, 02:02:31 PM
I would totally shoot a sleeping bear. I dont see any difference between that and a bear up a tree, over bait or a five hundred yard shot. All ethical IMO. If I saw one snoozing in a clear cut that is just that much less chance of it jumping the string/gun.
Same here but I don't think I would be crawling into a big bear's den to see if he was home, that takes either huge balls, a lack of brain cells or some combination of the two.
Post by: steeleywhopper on December 16, 2010, 02:07:48 PM
Post by: Machias on December 16, 2010, 02:10:56 PM
I'll bite :)QuoteThe folks that are critical, what would you have the guy do?I wouldn't have that guy do a thing. He can do whatever he wants. But I can also state without having to hide in a corner that I don't hunt animals that way. It doesn't mean I am going to write hate mails, am jealous or the like.QuoteTry and spook it out and then shoot it?
Again, he is welcome to do as he pleases. But since people are talking about it openly I offered up my thoughts. There is a difference between what I would do and what he did. I thought that was what we were talking about. Not what we would have someone else do. People who hunt within the law are no problem for me.QuoteWait for it to come out? Wait till spring and then shoot it?I don't see why not.QuoteIt's in a hole so it's safe?I didn't see a person make that claim that an animal is completely safe in a hole. Probably no more safe than I am in a building I suppose. Not sure where you were going with that one.QuoteSo would you shoot a bedded deer/elk?Yes, Why not? It's not the same as being contained by earthen walls I suppose. I think the example is an attempt at drawing parallels between two examples, but it just doesn't seem to work out to me.QuoteI know you'll say well they could get up and run away. Trust me if that bear wanted out of that hole there wasn't much going to stop him...except the .45-.70. I have seen bears and cats on video unass a cave, lickty split! They have an avenue of escape, might be over you or through you, but if you don't think a 703 pound animal could leave if it wanted to, your wrong.
I think the for most part you want to silence criticism. I think if the bear wanted to get up and run away he would have ate that guy for breakfast. Seems like he would rather have taken a nap. Well, he certainly took a dirt nap.
My criticism isn't meant to be translated as any sort of outrage. On the contrary. I think it's a fine bear. I also think it's fine to openly state I don't hunt that way and there's no shame in saying that and there's no bush I have to hide behind any more than this guy who killed the bear has to. 8)
I think you may have put a little more emphasis in my questions then what I was intending. I wasn't trying to "silence" anyone, I was trying to understand why the folks who were critical...were critical. I totally understand it's not everyones idea of how they want to harvest a bear, lion or any animal for that matter. Just wondering, for those that found themselves in the same situation what you thought the guy should do. I totally get the guys and gals who say nope, don't seem fair to me, I applaud you, I also applaud this guy, that's all my post was about. heck this whole site is about the discussion and giving our points of view....maybe sway an opinion or change a person's mind along the way. It's actually happen to me a time or two. :) The reference to being safe in the hole is me wondering why you wouldn't shoot a bear in a cave, obviously, maybe not so obviously, if he's in the hole/cave you deem him off limits...err safe? ;)
Post by: boneaddict on December 16, 2010, 02:21:26 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on December 16, 2010, 02:26:13 PM
Post by: steen on December 16, 2010, 02:28:53 PM
Post by: BIGINNER on December 16, 2010, 02:32:34 PM
I am along the lines as Ray. I'm not sure anyone was even being critical of him. Just it wasn't their cup of tea. i don't think there was even any divide or conquer. I've seen alot of bear in the middle of the winter and their bodies have basically shutdown do to natural causes. I don't think I'd enjoy killing an animal that is not at its finest. I didn't say crawling into a hole after one was either not sporting or briliiant. Theres a badger hole up the road. Anyone want to go in head first and see if badgers sleep in the winter or not. It is very possible to disagree with someone without having to be considered critical. half the people that will weigh in on this thread probably don't even understand hibernation, or have ever even seen a bear den, let alone with one in it. If its legal, then he was well within his rights to do so.
THATS BECAUSE THERE IS NO BEARS IN WASHINGTON TO MAKE BEAR DENS, SO ALL YOUR ARGUEMENTS ARE INVALID :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Machias on December 16, 2010, 02:46:18 PM
Post by: boneaddict on December 16, 2010, 02:47:51 PM
Post by: Machias on December 16, 2010, 02:53:11 PM
Post by: rasbo on December 16, 2010, 03:08:39 PM
Post by: Ray on December 16, 2010, 03:43:26 PM
Post by: d-rock on December 16, 2010, 04:07:51 PM
1. There will undoubtedly be a law against it next year or shortly thereafter.
2. That is how our hunting rules and regs become so restrictive and confusing. (i.e. u can shoot an animal but only if ALL the following criteria is met...)
3. I imagine that through excessive legislation we will slowly loose more and more hunting rights. >:(
&
4. Should be a non-issue because how many people can say they could track a bear to its den AND THEN have the guts or lack of brains (don't really know which) to go in after him? Can't be a large % of the hunter population.
Post by: Austrian Hunter on December 16, 2010, 04:20:07 PM
Crawl into a hole with one in Spetember and see how it turns out.
:yeah: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: krout81 on December 16, 2010, 08:31:38 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on December 17, 2010, 11:19:23 AM
Could you shoot this?? Awwwwwwwww......
I didn't...well...except with my Olympus!
Post by: Gutpile on December 17, 2010, 11:25:02 AM
Post by: BlackRidge on December 17, 2010, 11:34:35 AM
So...maybe its best to take a SSS-type approach to most situations NOT covered in the regs... or the grey areas that Libs will sh*t triangle bricks over :rolleyes:
Post by: 7mmfan on December 17, 2010, 11:35:17 AM
Post by: Kain on December 17, 2010, 11:42:11 AM
Post by: 724wd on December 17, 2010, 11:44:34 AM
Could you shoot this??
YOU BET! :chuckle:
Post by: KillBilly on December 17, 2010, 11:45:56 AM
I was thinking Rasbo would be the first guy I'd send in. Meanwhile I'd man the camera.
Rasbo would be the logical choice since he is the epitomy of YAR
Post by: grundy53 on December 17, 2010, 11:46:39 AM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fv351%2Fhornseeker%2FSleepybearx.jpg&hash=c0eefe5dbadde6e84cc3b608f0a4b18dcc08cb8b)
Could you shoot this?? Awwwwwwwww......
I didn't...well...except with my Olympus!
in aheart beat.
Post by: runamuk on December 17, 2010, 11:49:40 AM
I was thinking Rasbo would be the first guy I'd send in. Meanwhile I'd man the camera.
Rasbo would be the logical choice since he is the epitomy of YAR
OK see when I first read the story the person I thought of was also Rasbo :dunno: seems we have a consesus :chuckle:
and that is a cool pic of the bear however that bear looks kinda pissed off :dunno:
Post by: Buckmark on December 17, 2010, 11:50:46 AM
Post by: BIGINNER on December 17, 2010, 11:53:59 AM
I was thinking Rasbo would be the first guy I'd send in. Meanwhile I'd man the camera.
Rasbo would be the logical choice since he is the epitomy of YAR
OK see when I first read the story the person I thought of was also Rasbo :dunno: seems we have a consesus :chuckle:
and that is a cool pic of the bear however that bear looks kinda pissed off :dunno:
WE COULD SEND HIM IN WITH HIS FUR THING ON, THEN MAYBE THE BEAR WILL EVEN WANT TO CUDDLE A LITTLE :yike: :bdid:
Post by: Kain on December 17, 2010, 11:55:22 AM
Is it just me, but my ears are ringing just at the thought of letting a 45/70 go inside a cave... :bdid:
I thought the same thing when I watched that video I posted. :chuckle:
Post by: Hornseeker on December 17, 2010, 12:14:11 PM
Post by: krout81 on December 17, 2010, 08:42:51 PM
Quote
Could you shoot this?? Awwwwwwwww......YUPPPERS
Post by: boneaddict on December 17, 2010, 09:00:20 PM
Post by: Huntbear on December 17, 2010, 09:31:18 PM
I was thinking Rasbo would be the first guy I'd send in. Meanwhile I'd man the camera.
Rasbo would be the logical choice since he is the epitomy of YAR
OK see when I first read the story the person I thought of was also Rasbo :dunno: seems we have a consesus :chuckle:
and that is a cool pic of the bear however that bear looks kinda pissed off :dunno:
WE COULD SEND HIM IN WITH HIS FUR THING ON, THEN MAYBE THE BEAR WILL EVEN WANT TO CUDDLE A LITTLE :yike: :bdid:
:yike: :yike:
My thought exactly as I read this.. :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: ser300wsm on December 17, 2010, 09:44:35 PM
Post by: saylean on December 19, 2010, 11:28:10 AM
whats the fun in that!?
Post by: alecvg on December 25, 2010, 11:43:00 PM
Post by: ICEMAN on December 26, 2010, 08:09:36 AM
I dont see where it says he used a flashlight. It said he could see the nose WITHOUT a flashlight.
Next line is where we read about the flashlight...
“I went in about 6 feet, and I could just see the tip of his nose without a flashlight,” Kendall said. “He was growling and snapping his jaws at me.”
Kendall said that after he shined his flashlight on the bear, the bear laid back its ears.
Alecvg, I was going to rib you and tell you to "pay attention now..." but I am famous for missing a few lines too.... :chuckle:
Post by: sakoshooter on December 27, 2010, 09:52:07 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 27, 2010, 09:57:16 PM
As far as the actual shooting goes: Is it really different than shooting one out of a tree? I understand the hunt and following the hounds but as far as a treed bear goes, where can it go? Not really any different. Matter of fact, to make a fair comparison, the guy shooting the treed bear would need to climb the tree and get right in that bears face to be even with the guy that crawled into a den with a fully awake, jaw popping, ears laid back bear. After all, he did track it to it's den. Different only because we're not used to hearing about it in this way.I shot one out of a tree once kinda easy, the bad part was I treed him that was scary. He was sleeping next to a creek and I woke him up, he didn't know what I was I think, and he was cornered. :yike:
Post by: tritt007 on December 27, 2010, 10:11:23 PM
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on December 28, 2010, 12:54:36 AM
My :twocents:
Who cares? Do you really think that guy in the enterance was going to stop that bear from making an exit if it wanted to? Sounds like the guy tracked it to it's den. Kudos to him not a lot of people know how to follow a trail.
I see no real difference in shooting a bear in a den or watching a hill side packed with berries? or a bait site? or a carcass? river bank during salmon run? beach? Eventually a Bear is going to show up or you wouldn't be sitting there in the first place.
I believe hound hunting is a great way to hunt Bear and Cougar. For starters if the animal is a small one or a female than you have a great opertunity to look the animal over before pulling the trigger or letting it walk.
Post by: bearpaw on December 28, 2010, 01:16:28 AM
Many hunters aren't even savvy enough to track the bear to his den and get it. Now that his hunt has been published everyone that's holier than him says its unfair, but before he killed a bigger bear than anyone else had, no one even cared if that method should be legal or not. I am amazed at the jealousy and the holier-than-thou-attitiudes in the hunting world.
Do none of you think that has not happened in Washington! Man get a grip, season goes until mid November, why do you think bear are hard to find in November. Now that this method has been publisized half the hunters will be looking all over trying to find a den and the other half will be trying to outlaw shooting in a den, or asking for an earlier season which the WDFW s currently trying to get away from...LOL :chuckle: :bash:
My congrats goes to the hunter.... ;)
Post by: Kain on December 28, 2010, 10:15:23 AM
I say good for the guy getting a huge bear, he did it by legal means during established hunting season. :twocents:
Many hunters aren't even savvy enough to track the bear to his den and get it. Now that his hunt has been published everyone that's holier than him says its unfair, but before he killed a bigger bear than anyone else had, no one even cared if that method should be legal or not. I am amazed at the jealousy and the holier-than-thou-attitiudes in the hunting world.
Do none of you think that has not happened in Washington! Man get a grip, season goes until mid November, why do you think bear are hard to find in November. Now that this method has been publisized half the hunters will be looking all over trying to find a den and the other half will be trying to outlaw shooting in a den, or asking for an earlier season which the WDFW s currently trying to get away from...LOL :chuckle: :bash:
My congrats goes to the hunter.... ;)
Yep I would reference my post on the other thread. "Hunters spend more time fighting each other than fighting FOR each other". :chuckle:
Post by: L8NITE on December 28, 2010, 10:38:42 AM
Post by: Alan K on December 28, 2010, 10:39:37 AM
I don't think I'd enjoy killing an animal that is not at its finest.
Wow, that line kind of caught my eye. . . That's like saying you'd never enjoy taking a trophy mule deer buck or bull pushed down during a late hunt. . . They're certainly not at their finest in comparison to when there isn't any snow and not consumed with feeding. :dunno:
I really don't see any problem with this guys kill, like many have said, because in comparison to other hunting methods this is no less ethical to me (hounds & baiting). I think it's actually pretty awesome to do that tracking and talk about a pair of nuts to go in after it!!! Congrats to the hunter.
Can't believe I missed this when it was originally posted!
Post by: boneaddict on December 28, 2010, 10:46:37 AM
Post by: boneaddict on December 28, 2010, 10:50:48 AM
Quote
I am along the lines as Ray. I'm not sure anyone was even being critical of him. Just it wasn't their cup of tea. i don't think there was even any divide or conquer. I've seen alot of bear in the middle of the winter and their bodies have basically shutdown do to natural causes. I don't think I'd enjoy killing an animal that is not at its finest. I didn't say crawling into a hole after one was either not sporting or briliiant. Theres a badger hole up the road. Anyone want to go in head first and see if badgers sleep in the winter or not. It is very possible to disagree with someone without having to be considered critical. half the people that will weigh in on this thread probably don't even understand hibernation, or have ever even seen a bear den, let alone with one in it. If its legal, then he was well within his rights to do so.
Question for you. Have you ever hound hunted, hunted over bait, or have you seen a bear while in its den or watched or follow when when they come out. Just curious.
Post by: Alan K on December 28, 2010, 10:53:37 AM
And that wasn't necessarily related to the bear story at all, just the comment.
And I haven't hunted with hounds, over bait, or seen them in or coming out of their dens in the flesh, only on video.
Post by: Alan K on December 28, 2010, 11:16:26 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on January 06, 2011, 05:50:26 AM
January 6, 2011.
The Wildlife Commission will consider a new regulation to prohibit the take of bears in their dens during its January meeting.
During the morning session, the Wildlife Commission will get a first look at a new den-hunting regulation drafted by Division of Wildlife staff following an incident this fall in which a potential state record black bear was taken by a licensed hunter while in its den.
The incident has prompted a discussion about whether taking hibernating black bears in their dens is ethical, safe, or adheres to the concept of fair chase.
According to the 2010-2020 Strategic Plan adopted by the Wildlife Commission, the Division should look to maintain and increase support for wildlife management activities by emphasizing ethics, safety and fair chase in hunting, fishing and other wildlife programs. Although no regulations currently prohibit den hunting in Colorado, other states such as Pennsylvania and Michigan have adopted regulations to ban the practice.
The proposed regulation is scheduled to receive a three-step review by Commissioners, who could approve a final rule in May.
Post by: ICEMAN on January 06, 2011, 06:00:42 AM
Better shut the season down as the denning approaches just to be sure... :bash:
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 06, 2011, 06:04:54 AM
I'm not quite sure what the big deal is? This bear was in a hole? So what?My thoughts exactly. I question the artificial light thing too, but I don't trust reporters to get hunting details right, and DOW can make the call on whether or not a violation occurred. That said, the guy is a flippin' idiot for publicizing his feat and not expecting a bunch of criticism.
According to the article the bear was not sleeping. Following the biggest bear track you have ever seen into a den and shooting him is a whole hell of a lot more impressive to me than having 10 dogs run him up a tree. He was no less "trapped" in this den than he would have been up a tree.
The only issue I saw reading the article was the whole flashlight incident.
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 06, 2011, 06:23:14 AM
Post by: bearpaw on January 06, 2011, 11:36:21 AM
I certainly hope the DOW turns down the proposed regulation. The only way to tell for sure whether a bear is simply sleeping in a hole, or has entered hibernation, is to take a rectal temperature and see if the core temperature is suppressed.
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: seth30 on January 06, 2011, 11:40:39 AM
Post by: woodywsu on January 06, 2011, 11:44:20 AM
I certainly hope the DOW turns down the proposed regulation. The only way to tell for sure whether a bear is simply sleeping in a hole, or has entered hibernation, is to take a rectal temperature and see if the core temperature is suppressed.
:chuckle: There is always the heartbeat to check.
Post by: boneaddict on January 06, 2011, 02:36:20 PM
Quote
I certainly hope the DOW turns down the proposed regulation. The only way to tell for sure whether a bear is simply sleeping in a hole, or has entered hibernation, is to take a rectal temperature and see if the core temperature is suppressed.
I nominate Rasbo.
Post by: gaddy on January 06, 2011, 02:56:18 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on January 06, 2011, 03:16:02 PM
if after entering a bears den and checking the rectal internal temp,then determining weather the temp is suppressed or not, would you then ask the sleeping bear to wake up & step out side or would you take picts and consider this a new extreme sport?If, after taking these steps, you have determined the bear is sleeping and not hibernating, the most ethical harvest technique is to b*tch-slap it awake and kill it MMA style.
Post by: gaddy on January 06, 2011, 03:36:21 PM