Post by: kibber on December 25, 2010, 02:03:38 PM
Post by: fishcrazy on December 26, 2010, 08:50:44 AM
They do have a plan to deal with hoof rot. I don't think you will like it. WDFW is talking about planting wolves in the Willipa hills. They shouldn't have any problem finding and killing any elk with hoof rot.
Or any other game sick or not.
Kris
Post by: bobcat on December 26, 2010, 08:59:24 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "why they would shorten the season"? I wasn't aware that it had been shortened. :dunno:
Post by: runamuk on December 26, 2010, 09:04:02 AM
Post by: fishcrazy on December 26, 2010, 09:09:25 AM
I don't understand how they are going to reduce the size of the St Hellens herd when they reduce the seasons.
Kris
Post by: bobcat on December 26, 2010, 09:14:10 AM
Post by: fishcrazy on December 26, 2010, 09:28:58 AM
I read something about 1 year ago maybe more that said even though they had been harvesting all those extra elk the herd was still growing in size. We also thought we had seen fewer animals in places but in others we see just as many or more. :dunno:
I just hope this hoof rot don't get going on the other side of I-5 and end up spreading across the Cascades.
Kris
Post by: bobcat on December 26, 2010, 09:35:10 AM
Post by: jumpin on December 26, 2010, 09:38:36 AM
It seemed like there was alot of blood in the tracks. Im not sure if the cows were still in rut. I did hear a few bugles
while stirrin them up with my reed. 4 elk in camp, no rot, didnt see to many limpers up high
Post by: HntnFsh on December 26, 2010, 09:54:06 AM
Bobcat.
I read something about 1 year ago maybe more that said even though they had been harvesting all those extra elk the herd was still growing in size. We also thought we had seen fewer animals in places but in others we see just as many or more. :dunno:
I just hope this hoof rot don't get going on the other side of I-5 and end up spreading across the Cascades.
Kris
Its already on the other side of I-5.Just not as prevalent....Yet!
Post by: kibber on December 26, 2010, 10:02:14 AM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on December 26, 2010, 10:08:56 AM
Post by: bow4elk on December 26, 2010, 10:10:49 AM
Hunters will ALWAYS PAY THE STATE to reduce any game specie, for any reason assuming it is beneficial to the overall herd/ecosystem balance, or in this case, to thin or cull affected animals. To be clear, paying for hunting opportunity is money for the state's wallet. Stating the obvious here since our "leaders" are just driving our debt to new all-time levels of irresponsibility. Dare I say, idiots? Yes, that fits.
Wolves are not an appropriate solution to the targeted issue of hoof rot or any other ailment. Period. This logic is highly flawed because wolves don't operate in a way that solves this specific issue. Sure, they will kill a lot of hoof rot affected animals but so do coyotes and bears already. They are the appropriate "level" of predator for this, along with allowing hunters the additional responsibility - one they will gladly PAY for. I've not seen anything official about the further expansion of wolves in Western WA. I haven't looked either. Dale?
As for Mt. St. Helens elk, the state has a much larger emotional issue to deal with as compared to the ecosystem issue. Hunters have always stepped up and will continue to step up to fund wildlife projects that put the species best interests first, as opposed to letting bureaucrats fumble around trying to coddle the emotional ignorance of...well, every ignorant animal lover in this state and beyond. As a national monument, it's a Federal concern and as as such, the emotional tidal wave of ignorance will demolish the WDFW if handled "incorrectly" (meaning allowing hunters to PAY the state for the FREE help and EFFECTIVE reduction of elk in critical areas). Pretty simple solution if anyone had the political BALLS to enact it.
Anyone remember the Olympic Peninsula goat issues and the public battle between the USFS and WDFW (flowers vs goats)?! Meanwhile hunters were standing by with open wallets to PAY TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Well, that option didn't sit well with the public so it wasn't a viable option. Pathetic waste of money resulting in something like $9,000 per goat for relocation. Genius. Hunters spent the same money in AK, B.C., CO to hunt goats. Keep the money here or spend it out of state? Political suicide or political clout?
Post by: rock on December 26, 2010, 10:18:47 AM
Post by: kibber on December 26, 2010, 10:24:07 AM
Post by: bobcat on December 26, 2010, 10:44:46 AM
I've not seen anything official about the further expansion of wolves in Western WA. I haven't looked either.
You might read WDFW's wolf management plan if you have time. Go to this page and click on the link in the upper right: http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/mgmt_plan.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/mgmt_plan.html)
Post by: huntingfool7 on December 26, 2010, 12:39:53 PM
"Preferred Alternative"
Post by: HntnFsh on December 26, 2010, 07:00:52 PM
This leads to my other observation, I think the problem will resolve itself. Over the past couple years I have noticed less and less elk with the affliction than 2-3 years ago, yes I still see them but overall there are less of them. The biggest reason being hunter predation. The afflicted elk simply dont move as far or as fast as the healthy ones. Of the elk I have observed or seen killed with hoof rot all have appeared healthy in body size and weight, forage is plentiful and elk dont have to move alot to get adequate feed. They do to escape, or move distance in response to hunter pressure. So as the infected ( or defected) ones are harvested there is less and less spread.
I think your off the mark by a mile.Ive seen it to be more prevalent every year.Ive seen more elk than I care to count that are malnourished enough that they probably wont make it through the winter.Ive seen legal bulls with stunted horns that didnt even have the velvet rubbed off them.(also extremely malnourished)
Ive seen elk killed during hunting season that stunk so bad I wouldnt suggest anybody eat any part of it.
Ive seen it start in 1 small local area and spread for miles in every direction.I used to never see it east of I-5.Now I see a few cases every year.
Not every elk with hoof rot will be harvested.When I see herds with 40-50% infection rates.It tells me this is going to get much worse before it gets better.
Ive seen several elk that I would have shot,just to put out of their misery.If it werent for the ramifications.
Post by: huntingfool7 on December 26, 2010, 09:19:43 PM
Post by: Boss .300 winmag on December 26, 2010, 09:38:08 PM
Post by: grundy53 on December 26, 2010, 09:47:13 PM
:yeah:This leads to my other observation, I think the problem will resolve itself. Over the past couple years I have noticed less and less elk with the affliction than 2-3 years ago, yes I still see them but overall there are less of them. The biggest reason being hunter predation. The afflicted elk simply dont move as far or as fast as the healthy ones. Of the elk I have observed or seen killed with hoof rot all have appeared healthy in body size and weight, forage is plentiful and elk dont have to move alot to get adequate feed. They do to escape, or move distance in response to hunter pressure. So as the infected ( or defected) ones are harvested there is less and less spread.
I think your off the mark by a mile.Ive seen it to be more prevalent every year.Ive seen more elk than I care to count that are malnourished enough that they probably wont make it through the winter.Ive seen legal bulls with stunted horns that didnt even have the velvet rubbed off them.(also extremely malnourished)
Ive seen elk killed during hunting season that stunk so bad I wouldnt suggest anybody eat any part of it.
Ive seen it start in 1 small local area and spread for miles in every direction.I used to never see it east of I-5.Now I see a few cases every year.
Not every elk with hoof rot will be harvested.When I see herds with 40-50% infection rates.It tells me this is going to get much worse before it gets better.
Ive seen several elk that I would have shot,just to put out of their misery.If it werent for the ramifications.
Post by: Buckrub on December 27, 2010, 05:49:11 AM
Wolves are not the answer or alternative, wolves don't stop once the sick animals are culled from the herd.
The infected animals should be put down to stop the spread... easy enough with volunteers...but after watching the deer die from hair loss I doubt the wdfw will do anything but use it as an excuse to introduce wolves.
The low land elk live near people...you want to run wolves around Toledo / Winlock area?? cmon... wdfw could easily handle this with help from hunters and landowners.
I agree with bow4elk...no wolves
Post by: HntnFsh on December 27, 2010, 05:59:04 AM
where are you seeing these huge 40-50% infection rates?
Take a drive down S military rd sometime.Or check out the herds around Vader,Ryderwood.
Somebody said it was genetic.Wouldnt calves be born hoofless,with elf hoof or the like if it was genetic.Ive seen a few year old elk with it.But not calves.
I read an article last year that said there are over 40 different kinds of hoof rot.Back then they recomended not eating elk with hoof rot.A few weeks later they changed their stance and recomended removing the affected quarter.
Also if if hoof rot is a lack of minerals.How could it be contagious.A lack of minerals in their diet could make them more vulnerable but I would think thats about it.
Once again its probably one of many contributing factors.Also,if it was a lack of minerals,why didnt I ever see hoof rot 15 or 20 years ago.I wouldnt think those minerals just disapeared about the time elk stated getting hoof rot.
Ive talked to dairy,and goat farmers who had animals with it.They told me they inject antibiotics directly into the affected are.Sometimes it worked.Sometimes not.
I dont think anybody really knows what caused it.Where it came from.Or how to cure it.
Post by: Buckrub on December 27, 2010, 06:41:57 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_rot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_rot)
Post by: nontypical176 on December 27, 2010, 08:56:29 AM
I come up with questions from observing this 30+ elk herd. Why did the elk look so much healthier this fall/winter than they did during the summer? What happened to the elk feet that were long and elf like?(I seen none this winter). Do they break or rot off after they get so big? Is that why my buddys elk had one stub hoof? Somehow the elk live and thrive with this condition. The heard I have been watching is seen by many people, gets hunted pretty hard, constantly gets chased by pet dogs, has a horrible case of hoof rot, is getting pushed around by new developements and yet the number of elk in this herd is strong.
Hoof rot is a miserable condition for sure, and its just my opinion, but to me the condition and the damage doesn't look permanent. Elk are tough and infected elk can recover from what I've seen.
Post by: grundy53 on December 27, 2010, 09:13:33 AM
Couple observations I made: Last year a local Coweeman river herd had almost no hoof rot I could see, this year close to 70% had it and it was horrible in some of the elk. Later this year I seen them again, and many of the elk that had the long elf like hooves seemed to be better than they were this summer. All the cows that were infected this summer still had calves, and from what I seen this winter, the offspring look good. My buddy shot one of these elk a 2 or 3 year old rag horn and it had hoof rot. 3 of his hooves were a little longer than normal and the other was a short little stub. I helped him butcher that elk and the meat all looked and smelled good.
I come up with questions from observing this 30+ elk herd. Why did the elk look so much healthier this fall/winter than they did during the summer? What happened to the elk feet that were long and elf like?(I seen none this winter). Do they break or rot off after they get so big? Is that why my buddys elk had one stub hoof? Somehow the elk live and thrive with this condition. The heard I have been watching is seen by many people, gets hunted pretty hard, constantly gets chased by pet dogs, has a horrible case of hoof rot, is getting pushed around by new developements and yet the number of elk in this herd is strong.
Hoof rot is a miserable condition for sure, and its just my opinion, but to me the condition and the damage doesn't look permanent. Elk are tough and infected elk can recover from what I've seen.
i've seen some killed where the whole hoof was rotted off, all they had was a stump. They also had the fever pretty bad and i wouldn't touch the meat. so while some might get over it i don't think all do. as far as the meat goes... it all depends on what stage of the sickness they are in. i don't think the meat is good when they are in the worst stage of it.
Post by: nontypical176 on December 27, 2010, 10:06:35 AM
Post by: nontypical176 on December 27, 2010, 10:11:34 AM
Post by: grundy53 on December 27, 2010, 10:14:15 AM
The stubbed hoof
ya that doesn't look too bad. the really bad ones i saw didn't have any hoof left on the one leg it was nothing but a bloody nub and they were really sick looking.
Post by: AKBowman on December 27, 2010, 02:48:57 PM
That is IDIODIC. They will have to pay 100X the amount of $ to get the wolves out or even under control in less than 7 years. Everything will suffer INCLUDING eventually the wolves themselves and other predatory animals in the area. Deer and Elk will be pretty much iradicated. Hell there are enough cats in the area to take care of any culling necessary. The cats/yotes/bears are doing well enough to get it done, if that doesnt work get the master hunters out there to dispatch the effected animals.
WDFW cannot be seriously thinking about this can they?!?!?
Post by: AKBowman on December 27, 2010, 03:06:17 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01124/wdfw01124.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01124/wdfw01124.pdf)
I've been hunting the SW Corner of 506 four years straight now and have NEVER seen one single case of hoof rot. I know from reports there have been a few cases within 25 miles of where I hunt. Never heard anyone that hunts in the area of the unit even talk about seeing any cases.
Post by: grundy53 on December 27, 2010, 03:18:00 PM
Interesting info here.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01124/wdfw01124.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/01124/wdfw01124.pdf)
I've been hunting the SW Corner of 506 four years straight now and have NEVER seen one single case of hoof rot. I know from reports there have been a few cases within 25 miles of where I hunt. Never heard anyone that hunts in the area of the unit even talk about seeing any cases.
I know it's in the whole northern end of 506
Post by: AKBowman on December 27, 2010, 03:23:32 PM
Wierd deal but wolves are surely not the answer. IMHO it has to be from the cross contamination of livestock.
Post by: grundy53 on December 27, 2010, 03:30:54 PM
Post by: dlaw on December 28, 2010, 07:59:23 PM
NO Wolves, they are not the answer for any wildlife management problems.
Post by: dewandgin on December 28, 2010, 10:46:36 PM