Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 26, 2010, 06:19:26 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on December 26, 2010, 06:38:34 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 26, 2010, 06:47:04 PM
Post by: turkey slayer on December 26, 2010, 07:00:05 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 26, 2010, 07:15:14 PM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on December 26, 2010, 09:09:26 PM
Post by: husky270 on December 26, 2010, 11:48:08 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 27, 2010, 10:09:31 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 27, 2010, 10:56:42 AM
Post by: halflife65 on December 27, 2010, 11:25:40 AM
It's usually a case of mistaken identity - it does happen but very, very infrequently. The bio that wrote the article mentioned that he had tested 200 "crosses" and none of them were actually crosses - although antler configuration may have made it seem that they were. Also, they don't tend to live very long. Evidently, they get their survival strategies screwed up between beelining out of there and stotting (mule deer.) They don't effectively get away from predators, I guess.
I dunno - just going off what I read and, of course, I believe everything I read because it's on the internet. The survival strategy thing seemed wonky to me but maybe it's true...
However, everything has an exception and maybe you really did see a cross...certainly not saying you didn't because it does happen and maybe you were lucky enough to see one. Pretty cool, anyway.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 27, 2010, 11:34:44 AM
I dunno - just going off what I read and, of course, I believe everything I read because it's on the internet. The survival strategy thing seemed wonky to me but maybe it's true...
Maybe it's just the opposite. Maybe they're survival stragegy geniuses and they never get killed and that's why the bios hardly ever get to test a real harvested one... :dunno: :dunno: :chuckle:
Post by: bearpaw on December 27, 2010, 11:35:30 AM
http://www.facebook.com/BearpawOutfitters#!/DaleDenney (http://www.facebook.com/BearpawOutfitters#!/DaleDenney)
Post by: Shed Stud on December 29, 2010, 09:00:02 AM
Post by: PolarBear on December 29, 2010, 09:05:05 AM
Post by: NoBark on December 29, 2010, 09:50:41 AM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 29, 2010, 10:00:49 AM
We had a whitetail doe over at our place in Republic a couple of years ago that had 2 mulie fawns on her. That also was the same doe with the candle shaped antlers so she was all goofed up to begin with. :chuckle:
This one actually sounds legit... that is what I would expect if they successfully crossed; some f%#ed up Dr Moreau $hit... :dunno:
Post by: grundy53 on December 29, 2010, 10:24:06 AM
2 posters mentioned crosses with 'bigger' bodies. Why would a cross make a muley bigger than other muleys? An average muley is bigger than an average whitey? I would suppose the cross would be somewhere inbetween? An biologists around???
Look up Ligers. They are Way bigger then tigers or lions.
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 29, 2010, 10:49:04 AM
2 posters mentioned crosses with 'bigger' bodies. Why would a cross make a muley bigger than other muleys? An average muley is bigger than an average whitey? I would suppose the cross would be somewhere inbetween? An biologists around???
Look up Ligers. They are Way bigger then tigers or lions.
And that's Way with a capital "W"... :chuckle:
Post by: grundy53 on December 29, 2010, 10:51:08 AM
2 posters mentioned crosses with 'bigger' bodies. Why would a cross make a muley bigger than other muleys? An average muley is bigger than an average whitey? I would suppose the cross would be somewhere inbetween? An biologists around???
Look up Ligers. They are Way bigger then tigers or lions.
And that's Way with a capital "W"... :chuckle:
:chuckle: :chuckle: That's just for emphasis... :P
Post by: undertoad on December 29, 2010, 11:04:19 AM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on December 29, 2010, 11:20:32 AM
There's a concept known as "hybrid vigor," whereby genetically insular stocks are cross-bred, and the resulting offspring grow larger than either of the insular stocks. It is possible that this mechanism would take hold in a muley-whitetail cross.
:yeah: Like when a horse and a donkey cross and make a mule? The mule is usually bigger than both parents. Also sterile, which might be why there are so few crosses in the deer populations. They can only come from 2 fertile species?
Post by: alwinearcher on December 29, 2010, 11:25:06 AM
This is off my buddy Garrys (wildcountry guide service) trail cam...
Antlers look mulie but definitely a whitey.
Post by: Ray on December 29, 2010, 11:27:46 AM
Post by: NoBark on December 29, 2010, 04:30:17 PM
Post by: halflife65 on December 29, 2010, 04:52:07 PM
2 posters mentioned crosses with 'bigger' bodies. Why would a cross make a muley bigger than other muleys? An average muley is bigger than an average whitey? I would suppose the cross would be somewhere inbetween? An biologists around???
Look up Ligers. They are Way bigger then tigers or lions.
Ligers are pretty much my favorite animal. And I'm pretty good with a bow staff. That's why gangs keep trying to get me to join.
Post by: KillerMiller on December 29, 2010, 05:19:32 PM
http://gf.nd.gov/multimedia/ndoutdoors/issues/2003/feb/docs/hybrid.pdf (http://gf.nd.gov/multimedia/ndoutdoors/issues/2003/feb/docs/hybrid.pdf)
https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/ojs/index.php/wnan/article/viewFile/276/1373 (https://ojs.lib.byu.edu/ojs/index.php/wnan/article/viewFile/276/1373)
Post by: huntergreg on December 29, 2010, 05:28:07 PM
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 30, 2010, 09:18:48 AM
2 posters mentioned crosses with 'bigger' bodies. Why would a cross make a muley bigger than other muleys? An average muley is bigger than an average whitey? I would suppose the cross would be somewhere inbetween? An biologists around???
Look up Ligers. They are Way bigger then tigers or lions.
Ligers are pretty much my favorite animal. And I'm pretty good with a bow staff. That's why gangs keep trying to get me to join.
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Tina, you fat lard. Eat your ham!
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 02, 2011, 02:20:20 PM
They have a picture of a verified hybrid that I guy killed in AZ.
Hybrids generally look more like whitetail and are almost always the result of a Whitetail buck/Muley Doe cross. Their survival in the wild is very difficult. They usually have a unique awkward gait that is neither whitetail or muley. As a result they rarely mature before being taken by a predator.
Post by: grundy53 on January 02, 2011, 02:27:06 PM
http://www.coueswhitetail.com/coues_biology/hybrids.htm (http://www.coueswhitetail.com/coues_biology/hybrids.htm)
They have a picture of a verified hybrid that I guy killed in AZ.
Hybrids generally look more like whitetail and are almost always the result of a Whitetail buck/Muley Doe cross. Their survival in the wild is very difficult. They usually have a unique awkward gait that is neither whitetail or muley. As a result they rarely mature before being taken by a predator.
I would take their information with a grain of salt though. They say on that site that Blacktail deer are a sub species of Mule deer when Blacktails have been around longer. Infact scientist say mule deer were actually created through a Blacktail-Whitetail mix.
Post by: PolarBear on January 02, 2011, 02:45:19 PM
http://www.coueswhitetail.com/coues_biology/hybrids.htm (http://www.coueswhitetail.com/coues_biology/hybrids.htm):yeah:
They have a picture of a verified hybrid that I guy killed in AZ.
Hybrids generally look more like whitetail and are almost always the result of a Whitetail buck/Muley Doe cross. Their survival in the wild is very difficult. They usually have a unique awkward gait that is neither whitetail or muley. As a result they rarely mature before being taken by a predator.
I would take their information with a grain of salt though. They say on that site that Blacktail deer are a sub species of Mule deer when Blacktails have been around longer. Infact scientist say mule deer were actually created through a Blacktail-Whitetail mix.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 02, 2011, 02:52:52 PM
http://www.coueswhitetail.com/coues_biology/hybrids.htm (http://www.coueswhitetail.com/coues_biology/hybrids.htm)
They have a picture of a verified hybrid that I guy killed in AZ.
Hybrids generally look more like whitetail and are almost always the result of a Whitetail buck/Muley Doe cross. Their survival in the wild is very difficult. They usually have a unique awkward gait that is neither whitetail or muley. As a result they rarely mature before being taken by a predator.
I would take their information with a grain of salt though. They say on that site that Blacktail deer are a sub species of Mule deer when Blacktails have been around longer. Infact scientist say mule deer were actually created through a Blacktail-Whitetail mix.
Did you read the whole thing? Why take it with a grain of salt when they do say there are theories that mule deer were created by a Blacktail-Whitetail cross and then go on to explain what you just did? Additionally there is a chance this article was written around the time that info was coming out....98/99 if I remember correctly. Just reading it that is the way it appears. Kind of hard to state something with the authority if they didn't have the science to prove it at the time. I think it is pretty well written considering the info they probably had.
" This relatively close relationship between whitetail and mule deer and their genetic differences from blacktails has spawned a new theory that the mule deer itself is actually a hybrid form; the result of a mixing of genes from coastal blacktail bucks mating with whitetails does when the glaciers of the last Ice Age receded, bringing the two species together. The resulting offspring then changed drastically over the last 10,000 years in response to environmental conditions. This would explain the similarities between whitetail and mule deer mtDNA. Analysis of the rest of the DNA (nuclear DNA) with Polymerase Chain Reaction-based microsatellites or any of the other rapidly developing techniques will add much to our knowledge of the origin of deer. "
Post by: grundy53 on January 02, 2011, 02:55:08 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 02, 2011, 02:56:10 PM
sorry didn't realize how old it was. thought it was recent... :sry:
I more or less posted it for the pic of the verified mulie/whitetail cross.. I looked hard and it was the only one I found that had been verified.
Post by: Hangfire on January 02, 2011, 10:58:09 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on January 02, 2011, 11:14:35 PM
It takes more than antler shape to identify a cross. You can have white tail with the one set of tines forked and you can see mule deer with white tail appearing antlers. You have to look at the whole package, head, ears, tail etc.
A lot of the stuff I read say that even that doesn't give it away. They mentioned that nothing short of genetic testing can tell often times.