Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: huntergreg on December 28, 2010, 03:19:32 PM

Title: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: huntergreg on December 28, 2010, 03:19:32 PM: I have been looking at these guns. I wanted to know your thoughts on the 2 and what you would prefer and why?
The 270wsm or a 270? Looking to shoot around 300-500 yards if possible. I don't own any guns at the moment as i have been bow hunting for the last 10 years. :chuckle:
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Straight Shooter on December 28, 2010, 03:26:18 PM: FYI... Cabelas has the Vanguard in .270 WSM on sale.

http://www.cabelas.com/product/Weatherby174-Vanguard-Bolt-Action-Rifles/706374.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D%26No%3D20%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3D300%2Bwsm%26Ntx%3Dmode%252Bmatchall%26WTz_stype%3DSP%26form_state%3DsearchForm%26search%3D300%2Bwsm&Ntt=300+wsm (http://www.cabelas.com/product/Weatherby174-Vanguard-Bolt-Action-Rifles/706374.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch%2F%3FN%3D%26No%3D20%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3D300%2Bwsm%26Ntx%3Dmode%252Bmatchall%26WTz_stype%3DSP%26form_state%3DsearchForm%26search%3D300%2Bwsm&Ntt=300+wsm)
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: elkslayer069 on December 28, 2010, 11:00:35 PM: normal 270 you get an extra round and they are cheaper and you dont really gain much with the wsm
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2010, 11:24:46 PM: Quote from: elkslayer069 on December 28, 2010, 11:00:35 PM
normal 270 you get an extra round and they are cheaper and you dont really gain much with the wsm

Well that's is not 100% true. Here is the run down on the 2. Say you are shooting a 130grain factory xp3 load. He said 300-500 yards.
Here is the differences.
And just so everyone knows i love both the cartridges! I own and shoot both. But the 270wsm is better when it comes to ballistics's

Both rifles sighted in at 100 yards 1.5" high

270win: 300yards -11" 1690FT-LBS/400y -25" 1433FT-LBS/500y -45.5" 1200FT-LBS

270wsm: 300 yards -8.5" 1970FT-LBS/400y -21" 1681FT-LBS/500y -38" 1426FT-LBS

So with the 270wsm you get a little better BC most of the time. The drop on the 270wsm is less 7.5" at 500yards. And about 200+ft-lbs more. I like the 270 win for less then 300 yards and the 270wsm for 300+ yards. Having one extra shell isn't to much of a gain. Shoul not take more then 3, well most of the time :chuckle:

GET THE 270WSM!
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: jdb on December 29, 2010, 06:13:03 AM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2010, 11:24:46 PM
Quote from: elkslayer069 on December 28, 2010, 11:00:35 PM
normal 270 you get an extra round and they are cheaper and you dont really gain much with the wsm

Well that's is not 100% true. Here is the run down on the 2. Say you are shooting a 130grain factory xp3 load. He said 300-500 yards.
Here is the differences.
And just so everyone knows i love both the cartridges! I own and shoot both. But the 270wsm is better when it comes to ballistics's

Both rifles sighted in at 100 yards 1.5" high

270win: 300yards -11" 1690FT-LBS/400y -25" 1433FT-LBS/500y -45.5" 1200FT-LBS

270wsm: 300 yards -8.5" 1970FT-LBS/400y -21" 1681FT-LBS/500y -38" 1426FT-LBS

So with the 270wsm you get a little better BC most of the time. The drop on the 270wsm is less 7.5" at 500yards. And about 200+ft-lbs more. I like the 270 win for less then 300 yards and the 270wsm for 300+ yards. Having one extra shell isn't to much of a gain. Shoul not take more then 3, well most of the time :chuckle:

GET THE 270WSM!
by bc do you mean ballistic coefficient?
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Straight Shooter on December 29, 2010, 07:28:37 AM: Quote from: jdb on December 29, 2010, 06:13:03 AM
Quote from: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2010, 11:24:46 PM
Quote from: elkslayer069 on December 28, 2010, 11:00:35 PM
normal 270 you get an extra round and they are cheaper and you dont really gain much with the wsm

Well that's is not 100% true. Here is the run down on the 2. Say you are shooting a 130grain factory xp3 load. He said 300-500 yards.
Here is the differences.
And just so everyone knows i love both the cartridges! I own and shoot both. But the 270wsm is better when it comes to ballistics's

Both rifles sighted in at 100 yards 1.5" high

270win: 300yards -11" 1690FT-LBS/400y -25" 1433FT-LBS/500y -45.5" 1200FT-LBS

270wsm: 300 yards -8.5" 1970FT-LBS/400y -21" 1681FT-LBS/500y -38" 1426FT-LBS

So with the 270wsm you get a little better BC most of the time. The drop on the 270wsm is less 7.5" at 500yards. And about 200+ft-lbs more. I like the 270 win for less then 300 yards and the 270wsm for 300+ yards. Having one extra shell isn't to much of a gain. Shoul not take more then 3, well most of the time :chuckle:

GET THE 270WSM!
buy bc do you mean ballistic coefficient?

Yeah, a .27 caliber bullet is a .27 caliber bullet... so, based on same bullet design/weight, they're equal. The difference is that you will get better trajectory and energy (in a short action) with the more efficient short mag.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: high country on December 29, 2010, 08:43:47 AM: so here is my take, I hunt remote 90% of the time and long shots pop up ever so often. I have a rem ti in 270win that is a shooter. I have taken many critters with it in the 300-500yd range. I love the gun because it is so light it is always in my hands, not on my shoulder. for some reason I wanted more poop, so I bought a 270wsm finnlight. aside fron a montana this is a slick a rifle as can be bought. I had trouble getting mine to shoot to my standards and I offed it, but that is besides the point. what I found is I carried exrta rounds in my pocket because the gun did not hold as many as my rem. I fretted feeding in a hurry as the short fats are not as slick as the winnie. I never had a feed issue, but know those that have. I spent days on the chrono and was just not seeing where 200fps is gonna do anything more for me. EVERY SINGLE .277 bullet made will work well at the 270 win velocity, wsm and close shots will make you wish you spent the $$ on premiums. 270 roy even more so. I have a system that allows me to shoot up to 450 yds and be within a MOA using my regular ol' 3-9 4200, the wsm will not change the fact that I will need to make corrections.....just different ones. what found was the wsm as a second gun was a total waste for me, because I know the 270 like the back of my hand. I am most deadly holding that very rifle. if you wee looking to an only rifle, eitherwould do you well, but the win is available in every hardware store in north america, should you need ammo, and it works well in a 22" gun that is lighter, handier, and carries more ammo down. really, the 270 win is as good a multi purpose round as has ever come along. I have a large selection of rifles to shoose from and I can tell you that 99% of my hero shots are taken with that gun.

but I am seriously considering a 270 or 257 roy on the next barrel.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Armadillo on December 29, 2010, 08:55:38 AM: the difference of 2.5 inches at 300 yards still puts you in the kill zone of an animal if using the 270, the rounds are cheaper and more available for the 270. The skill of the shooter is where all of the focus should be, do you plan on doing long range mostly? like for target shooting? those long range shots only pop up once in awhile
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: 400out on December 29, 2010, 09:23:01 AM: I've never seen a 270 perform anyway other than like crap! wouldn't own one myself :twocents:
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: 270Shooter on December 29, 2010, 09:36:28 AM: Quote from: 400out on December 29, 2010, 09:23:01 AM
I've never seen a 270 perform anyway other than like crap! wouldn't own one myself :twocents:
Please explain, the mule deer I shot at 475 yards in montana sure didnt think the 270 was crap
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: MuleDeerCrazy on December 29, 2010, 09:37:45 AM: My dad shot a .270 Win. for years and killed lots of critters with it, and my buddy has a .270 WSM and I have also watched him kill a number of animals with it as well. In my observations, their impact on animals is totally different, even at close range. My dad would shoot a deer and would run down the hill a hundred yards and pile up dead... and that works, not knocking that. My buddy would shoot a deer and it would flip it right over where it was standing, dead when it hit the ground. That difference in impact is even more pronounced when shooting elk.

I know it's the same bullet, but the extra fps with the .270 WSM seems to pack a lot bigger energy shock factor with it? :twocents:
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: high country on December 29, 2010, 09:38:30 AM: nor mine at similar range......with my pard bangin 3 300rums off at his, nary a scratch on that buck....lol.

when a guy gets a run of piss poor rifles, he must look beyond the rifle.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Buckrub on December 29, 2010, 09:41:31 AM: Quote from: huntergreg on December 28, 2010, 03:19:32 PM
I have been looking at these guns. I wanted to know your thoughts on the 2 and what you would prefer and why?
The 270wsm or a 270? Looking to shoot around 300-500 yards if possible. I don't own any guns at the moment as i have been bow hunting for the last 10 years. :chuckle:

Deep subject....
One must first define which game animal is being hunted before blindly comparing the calibers mentioned...
personally.. I prefer a .30 cal for range of bullet and variety of game I can hunt with it... the .270 ca. limits you to special order 165 grain bullets (reloader only) .

When purchasing a tool why not get a tool that will work for all?
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: BlackRidge on December 29, 2010, 09:44:52 AM: I picked up the TC venture in 270 and its my go-to for sure, too accurate. The ammo was a dealbreaker for me, the wsm was too spendy for me both in OTC mfg's and handloads, and I was willing to take the hit on lb/force past 350 yrds. 270 rounds seem to be more readily available than the wsm, so picking up a box if needed wouldnt be an issue

:twocents:

I'd try to go with whatever you think will best suit your needs
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Bigshooter on December 29, 2010, 09:45:55 AM: Quote from: 400out on December 29, 2010, 09:23:01 AM
I've never seen a 270 perform anyway other than like crap! wouldn't own one myself :twocents:

Jack O'Connor seemed to like the .270 just fine.

I love both cartirges. I have killed many deer and an elk with the .270 winchester. And a bunch of deer with the .270 wsm.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: high country on December 29, 2010, 09:47:31 AM: I think a lot of guys get hung up on numbers. I can honestly say the single most impressive gun I have ever killed a critter with isthe 257roy stoked with 100gr tsx's. you wanna talk bang flops.....that is your flopper. people will always look at you crosseyed when you haul a 257 into elk camp, but the ones who get to see its magic are impressed. can an elk really tell that it was hit by a 277 instead of 308 and shrug off the missing .031".....not.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Buckrub on December 29, 2010, 09:53:16 AM: Here... look at the stock ballistics between a .270 vs. a 300... 500 more ft lbs of knockdown @500 yds.

http://weatherby.com/_docs/Weatherby_catalog_ballistics.pdf (http://weatherby.com/_docs/Weatherby_catalog_ballistics.pdf)

I don't shoot rifles anymore but if I had to pick one...eh 30 cal. especially for elk.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: high country on December 29, 2010, 09:55:37 AM: like I said, untill you have seen it and done it.....numbers sell. might as well buy a 375 rum......or a chey tac
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Pathfinder101 on December 29, 2010, 09:58:33 AM: I have hunted almost exclusively with a .270 win since I was 15. I was a huge Jack O'Connor fan from reading my Grandpa's old Outdoor Life's he had stacked in his basement, so when I saved up and bought my own rifle there was no question.
That being said, I have a good buddy that I hunt with that lives in Montana that carries a .270 WSM. I have to admit, it is impressive, both at the range, and in the field. If I were to "start over", I would think real hard about that short mag. :twocents:
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Tony 270 on December 29, 2010, 10:25:53 AM: I had a 270WSM. And a 7mm and 300 WSMs. Went back to the plain 'ole 270 because I've only shot beyond 400 yards twice at game. The ammo for the standard 270 is quite a bit cheaper, has less recoil, and it simply gets the job done. The WSM is a good round and gives you some extra distance if you need it, I just didn't personally.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 29, 2010, 11:24:49 PM: Quote from: Straight Shooter on December 29, 2010, 07:28:37 AM
Quote from: jdb on December 29, 2010, 06:13:03 AM
Quote from: carpsniperg2 on December 28, 2010, 11:24:46 PM
Quote from: elkslayer069 on December 28, 2010, 11:00:35 PM
normal 270 you get an extra round and they are cheaper and you dont really gain much with the wsm

Well that's is not 100% true. Here is the run down on the 2. Say you are shooting a 130grain factory xp3 load. He said 300-500 yards.
Here is the differences.
And just so everyone knows i love both the cartridges! I own and shoot both. But the 270wsm is better when it comes to ballistics's

Both rifles sighted in at 100 yards 1.5" high

270win: 300yards -11" 1690FT-LBS/400y -25" 1433FT-LBS/500y -45.5" 1200FT-LBS

270wsm: 300 yards -8.5" 1970FT-LBS/400y -21" 1681FT-LBS/500y -38" 1426FT-LBS

So with the 270wsm you get a little better BC most of the time. The drop on the 270wsm is less 7.5" at 500yards. And about 200+ft-lbs more. I like the 270 win for less then 300 yards and the 270wsm for 300+ yards. Having one extra shell isn't to much of a gain. Shoul not take more then 3, well most of the time :chuckle:

GET THE 270WSM!
buy bc do you mean ballistic coefficient?

Yeah, a .27 caliber bullet is a .27 caliber bullet... so, based on same bullet design/weight, they're equal. The difference is that you will get better trajectory and energy (in a short action) with the more efficient short mag.

Oops don't know how that got in there :chuckle: I was thinking about my personal loads. Being with diffrent bullets, meant to say with my 270 wsm load i get a higher BC "Ballistic Coefficient" then with my 270win :chuckle: 2 late at night.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: dewandgin on December 29, 2010, 11:45:49 PM: My dad has hunted with the 270 since the early to mid 60's and when it came time to buy the three boys rifles they all got 270 so there was no question about which ammo was grabbed. Since then I have owned many a gun including the 270WSM and it is a awesome gun but I still have the 270 and the ammo is cheap and it has killed everything from a Jack Rabbit to a moose and as long as I did my job it did its job. Total personal preference is the 270 the 270WSM has more thump and a little bit less drop but shooting them and both at nearly identical ranges as Antelope and Mule deer did not see a diff on how soon they died or how they did.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Hyde on December 29, 2010, 11:47:15 PM: I love the 270 win, had several over the years. Nowadays, it falls into that category (like the '06) of being "Not Sexy". I would choose it over the WSM though, but partially because they are a dime a dozen in left hand bolts.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: elkaholic123 on December 29, 2010, 11:55:22 PM: BC would be the same,refers to the BC of the bullet not the caliber
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 30, 2010, 12:00:53 AM: Diffrent bullets have diffrent BC. My software that i am using says the bullets in my 270win is .372 and the 270wsm is .432.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: elkaholic123 on December 30, 2010, 12:16:23 AM: you have bad software my 140gr accubonds have a BC of.496,does not matter which gun you shoot them out of.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: carpsniperg2 on December 30, 2010, 12:42:51 AM: Quote from: elkaholic123 on December 30, 2010, 12:16:23 AM
you have bad software my 140gr accubonds have a BC of.496,does not matter which gun you shoot them out of.

You might want to read what i said "I was thinking about my personal loads. Being with diffrent bullets"
Thats what i said. Not shooting the same bullet in both guns :tup:

Intresting read for everyone

The Ballistic Coefficient of Rifle Bullets

By Chuck Hawks

Ballistic Coefficient (BC) is basically a measure of how streamlined a bullet is; that is, how well it cuts through the air. Mathematically, it is the ratio of a bullet's sectional density to its coefficient of form. Ballistic Coefficient is essentially a measure of air drag. The higher the number the less drag, and the more efficiently the bullet cuts through the air. So for purposes of flying through the air efficiently, the bigger the BC number the better.

BC is what determines trajectory and wind drift, other factors (velocity among them) being equal. BC changes with the shape of the bullet and the speed at which the bullet is traveling, while sectional density does not. Spitzer, which means pointed, is a more efficient shape than a round nose or a flat point. At the other end of the bullet, a boat tail (or tapered heel) reduces drag compared to a flat base. Both increase the BC of a bullet.

For example, a Hornady 100 grain round nose 6mm bullet has a BC of .216; a Hornady 100 grain spire point 6mm bullet has a BC of .357, and a Hornady 100 grain boat tail spire point 6mm bullet has a BC of .400. All three of these bullets have a sectional density (which is the ratio of a bullet's diameter to its weight) of .242, because they are all .243" in diameter and weigh 100 grains. But the more streamlined bullets have a higher ballistic coefficient. They are the ones to choose for long range shooting where a flatter trajectory is important.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: addicted on December 30, 2010, 01:48:49 AM: MBPR

Maximum point blank range.

.270 is at 305 yards. the magnums are around 315-325. not a huge difference.

I think this article has been on here before.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/ultra-long-range.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/ultra-long-range.htm)
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: 700xcr on December 30, 2010, 06:31:33 AM: Either one you would be happy with. I own a Remington 700xcr in 270wsm. The only thing I have done to it is adjust the trigger down to 2Ibs. Change the factory box magazine with a Watts single stack magazine and a barrel break-in proceedure. I am getting 1/2" groups with it with no feeding problems. Very accurate gun and puts the hammer down on mule deer from 85yds to 550yds for me.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: high country on December 30, 2010, 07:49:22 AM: guys that need to buy a round based on energy figures have not killed enough stuff in their lives. velocity kills, no doubt, but nary does a critter walk off with a hole in the lungs/heart. I get a kick out of the "must kill better cause it hits with more energy" scratch your head on this;

a 277 bullet is only slightly larger then 1/4 of an inch, I am sure most of you own a drill, so go grab a 9/32" drill bit and see how much force is required to push it through a piece of meat. now do the same with a 1/2" which is about the size of a mushroomed bullet. it does not take 2000 lbs to do it. contrary to popular belief, higher velocity does not always mean increased penetration. your bullet maker can give you the velo range of their bullets. most game animals killed with good bullets at sane ranges regardless of headstamp fail to stop bullets, some do, most do not......so the extra energy/velocity is only there to help with the trajectory and self confidence.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: Bob33 on December 30, 2010, 08:23:20 AM: Quote from: huntergreg on December 28, 2010, 03:19:32 PM
The 270wsm or a 270? Looking to shoot around 300-500 yards if possible.
Get the WSM. Why not? The primary advantages listed about the 270 are ammo cost and recoil. The 270 WSM has a bit more recoil, but an average sized shooter should not have a problem. Ammo cost: how much are you really planning to shoot? If you buy factory ammo and the WSM costs $1 more per round, that's $100 more for 100 rounds. Add up your hunting trip expenses, and ammo cost will be very low on the list. I'd gladly pay a few extra dollars to have a few less inches of drop and wind drift at 300 to 500 yards.

There's nothing wrong with the standard 270, but if you're starting out I'd get the WSM without hesitation.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: C-Money on December 30, 2010, 08:48:43 AM: I use the 270win and never had a problem. My best good friend shoots a 270wsm, deer/elk die just as dead with it. I like both. If you truly want to shoot lots of 500 yard shots, the WSM has a slight advantage. If I wanted a long range 270, I would buy a 270 Weatherby.
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: gadwall on December 30, 2010, 09:27:46 PM: The WSM has a little edge over the old reliable Jack O'Connor favorite. But to shoot with regular precision beyond 350 yards you have to shoot alot once you find a load your rifle likes. If you shoot enough, either rifle should do just fine. :twocents: :twocents:
Title: Re: 270 wsm or a regular 270????
Post by: yorketransport on December 31, 2010, 08:39:44 AM: I say, let the rifle pick the cartridge. If I wanted a wood stocked, blued steel, "classic" rifle, I'd get the 270 Win. If I'm getting a Stainless synthetic rifle, I'll get the WSM. I like to match the cartridge to the gun. :twocents:

Andrew