Hunting Washington Forum
Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: grundy53 on January 06, 2011, 07:24:45 PM
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Probably a stupid question and i know i need too follow the directions to a T but i was curious. I've already bought some 85gr Combined Technology(Nosler) Ballistic silvertip boat tails for my 25-06. My Lyman load charts don't have recipe for 85gr bullets, only 87gr bullets. I did go to Nosler's site and get their load chart and plan on using that. But I'm curious to know if 2 grains makes that much of a difference or as i get more experienced could i just follow the lyman recipe for 87gr? Thank you for the help.
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Yeah 2 grains will make a difference. From what Ive learned, I start with the lower grain loads then work up. I find my hotter loads are more accurate. When I started loading, I'd do ten loads with lets say 76 grains, then I'd do ten loads with 79 grains. Go shoot and see what patterns better for ya!
MS
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I would get the correct info for the load,I don't experiment with load data. Call me a scardie cat, it only takes one mistake to ruin your or someone Else's life that way.
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2 grains is not much variance. When I reload for my Noslers I load a few at the best load suggested. I then load some varying +/- grains until I find the most accurate load for my rifle and stick with that. Side note buy some bore foam cleaner(Cabelas has it)and spray in the magazine end leaning it against something so that the foam will gradually fun out the end of the barrell. Do this until the foam comes out not blue on a paper towel
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I would get the correct info for the load,I don't experiment with load data. Call me a scardie cat, it only takes one mistake to ruin your or someone Else's life that way.
I felt the same way. i was just making sure I'm not being paranoid. I wasn't sure if there was that much difference between an 85gr bullet and 87gr bullet.
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2 grains is not much variance. When I reload for my Noslers I load a few at the best load suggested. I then load some varying +/- grains until I find the most accurate load for my rifle and stick with that. Side note buy some bore foam cleaner(Cabelas has it)and spray in the magazine end leaning it against something so that the foam will gradually fun out the end of the barrell. Do this until the foam comes out not blue on a paper towel
Thanks you for the tip about the bore foam! I think your talking about Grains of powder(i apologize if i'm wrong) I'm actually asking about the grains of the bullet.
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The 2 grains might make a slight difference for the bullet weight you are loading. Often, I weigh out and sort the bullets I get from a box and, for example, 200 grain bullets will include 197-202 grains...but that is only about a 1% difference. But to go with ~2.5% difference you may actually notice the difference in performance. If you have 87 grain bullets, the 'safe' amount of powder will be slightly less than for the 85 grain. I would expect you to have a linear decrease in the muzzle velocity, but your trajectory will be non-linear (more drop).
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The 2 grains might make a slight difference for the bullet weight you are loading. Often, I weigh out and sort the bullets I get from a box and, for example, 200 grain bullets will include 197-202 grains...but that is only about a 1% difference. But to go with ~2.5% difference you may actually notice the difference in performance. If you have 87 grain bullets, the 'safe' amount of powder will be slightly less than for the 85 grain. I would expect you to have a linear decrease in the muzzle velocity, but your trajectory will be non-linear (more drop).
Thank you for explaining that. so basically if i were to use an 87gr bullet in a recipe that calls for an 85gr bullet i would get a slower bullet with more drop. What about the other way around? an 85gr bullet in a recipe that calls for an 87gr bullet? Thanks again.
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Some manuals have a weight range, mine listed loads 87-90 for that calibur,i use several manuals plus powder company data to get an idea of what i want to use,plus there are variances from gun to gun.
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The rule that contradicts logic is this: The heavier the bullet, the LESS powder is needed. Just opposite of what you would think. Data for any 85 grain bullet should be OK as long as you work up your loads starting at the bottom of the chart. When working up a new load, I load 5 at the bottom of the data chart,then increase the charge 1/2 grain for the next 5, etc. on up to the maximum. This will give you about 30 to 40 rounds to test for best accuracy while keeping pressures at a safe level. Shoot them in the same order, looking for best group, while examining fired rounds for signs of excessive pressure. Flattened primers will be the first indication of high pressure, usually 2/3 of the way up the scale. STOP! Do not shoot the rest of the rounds. Take them home and pull the bullets and dump the powder. Reload them with your best load. The nice part about this procedure is that you don't have to pull very many bullets. Better than loading 100 rounds and then finding out that they are too hot and have to be pulled. For just a handful of rounds, one of those kinetic (hammer) style bullet pullers works well. I've been reloading for over 40 years, and haven't blown a gun up yet. I've seen guns that others have blown up. It aint pretty! :yike:
Add; SOMETIMES, a gun will shoot the maximum load just fine. But don't count on it. Guns are like women--every one has a different personality!
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:)It is not about the amount of powder, its about the amount of pressure. :chuckle: now throw in long throat or short, tight bore or loose, moly coating?
People who quote manuals amaze me, they might be close, that is what they are for, getting close.
there is nothing better than hands on experience. you gotta shoot.
Carl
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I think it's already been said, but your data for an 87 grain bullet should be plenty safe for the lighter 85 grain bullet. After all, it IS lighter, so theoretically you could use more powder with your 85 grain bullet. But again, as others have said, 2 grains is a very small difference, and if it was the other way around and your bullet was 2 grains heavier than the data you had, I would still use that data. Of course I would follow standard procedure and start somewhere between the minimum and maximum loads listed, and work my way up.
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bullets of differnt manufacture within the same weight have different slugging tendencies; they swell to fill the bore at diffrerent rates....weight does make a difference, but you may find 2 grain variations within a given lot of bullets. I can tell you that I have watched 58gr imr 4831 shoot bugholes with 85gr btips and 87gr sierras from two different 2bits. one was going through the lights at 3650ish and the other 100more......hell on coyotes.
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I'm a bit perplexed. If the bullets are the same manufacturer and type, then 2 grains is not a large difference. However, are you referring to 87 grains of a different type than the 85 grain bullet? That could make a big difference. In other words, why do the Lyman charts show loads for 87 grain bullets if Nosler only offers the BT in 85 grains? If their charts are for a different bullet than the Nosler Ballistic Tip, then I'd definitely be careful.
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165 gr ballistic tip/168 gr match point/165 gr sierra boat tail in my -06, same powder, same impact point (close enough anyways), two grains of bullet weight shouldn't make a difference on your starting point. Disclaimer: I am not nor do I claim to be nor play a reloading expert on TV..... :chuckle:
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Have you checked the Nosler website for data?
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those are pretty lawyer friendly numbers.
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Yeah they usually are when you get data from the internet.
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I like the numbers in the old speer catalog. compare it to todays and you have to wonder how we are still alive.
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I shoot the same bullets threw my 25-06. If you would like some info i would be happy to share what has worked good for me with the bullet.
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I like the numbers in the old speer catalog. compare it to todays and you have to wonder how we are still alive.
Yeah, I have a couple of old Speer manuals, both are from the early 60's. Seems the maximum loads you see in some of the current books are just starting loads in those old Speer books. :o
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I always laugh when i look at the differences between my speer books and my hodgons books :chuckle: take a look at the 454 casull if you want a laugh :chuckle: I figure i would rather trust the powder companies loads over the bullet companies. Just my thoughts.
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Have you checked the Nosler website for data?
Yes. That's the chart I plan on using. But I have to buy some imr4350 now. I was just curious cause I have some rl-15 which is in the lyman charts.
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I shoot the same bullets threw my 25-06. If you would like some info i would be happy to share what has worked good for me with the bullet.
Thank you! I would really appreciate that!
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:chuckle: I thought you were referring to powder weight too.
MS
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no worries. i should have made it a little clearer. I later added bullet to my thread. :chuckle: :chuckle:
