Post by: jetjockey on January 25, 2011, 06:39:18 PM
Post by: Special T on January 25, 2011, 08:10:45 PM
Post by: ribka on January 25, 2011, 08:15:01 PM
Post by: bonneylakebowman on January 26, 2011, 07:56:29 AM
Post by: pointer on January 26, 2011, 08:47:25 AM
Post by: thinkingman on January 26, 2011, 09:56:35 AM
Post by: jetjockey on January 26, 2011, 10:58:52 AM
I just looked at Longhollow in E-Burg (forgot I had looked into him when my brother was looking for a trainer). WOW! I don't care how good he is, he ain't worth $900 for 4 weeks. If you look at his costs, from start to finish would be over $5000 for a totally broke dog. Thats absolutely rediculous for pointing dog training. Just for comparison, I have my dog with a Pro Field Trial Brittany trainer for 6 months of the year to run the circuit. She also goes to S.D every summer to be trained on wild pheasants, sharptail, and chickens.. I originally sent her off just to get trained, but she ended up as a field trial dog as well as my hunting buddy. She came back after her first summer at camp totally broke and winning trials, plus, she had tons of wild bird experience that you just cant get in WA state. Total cost $1400 for a totally finished dog! I haven't even spent $5000 on everything (training, trial entry fees, and handling fees) and my pup has been with the trainer on and off for a total of one year, ran almost 15 trials, and is now a Field Champion.... Hopefully we will find someone a little more reasonable, otherwise my dads making a trip to SD in July to drop his pup off with my trainer.
Post by: Bluemoon on January 26, 2011, 11:39:07 AM
Give me a call if you want..I have changed a lot of the ways the kennels is ran down here now. I now run two training camps in Montana, running on wild birds.. Actually looking at property back there to move on.
Only hunted birds one day in this state last season..
You know the number to reach me
Regards
Richard
Post by: Special T on January 26, 2011, 11:55:23 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on January 26, 2011, 02:40:43 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on January 26, 2011, 02:44:17 PM
Thanks for the updates guys.
I just looked at Longhollow in E-Burg (forgot I had looked into him when my brother was looking for a trainer). WOW! I don't care how good he is, he ain't worth $900 for 4 weeks. If you look at his costs, from start to finish would be over $5000 for a totally broke dog. Thats absolutely rediculous for pointing dog training. Just for comparison, I have my dog with a Pro Field Trial Brittany trainer for 6 months of the year to run the circuit. She also goes to S.D every summer to be trained on wild pheasants, sharptail, and chickens.. I originally sent her off just to get trained, but she ended up as a field trial dog as well as my hunting buddy. She came back after her first summer at camp totally broke and winning trials, plus, she had tons of wild bird experience that you just cant get in WA state. Total cost $1400 for a totally finished dog! I haven't even spent $5000 on everything (training, trial entry fees, and handling fees) and my pup has been with the trainer on and off for a total of one year, ran almost 15 trials, and is now a Field Champion.... Hopefully we will find someone a little more reasonable, otherwise my dads making a trip to SD in July to drop his pup off with my trainer.
Are you saying you ran 15 trials AND got training for less than $5K?
I just spent $700 in two weeks on entry fees and a handler for a dog show. Your numbers don't pencil out from anything I've ever seen. I say if you have a guy who will take your dog for a year for $1,200 leave him there, send your dad's dog there plus about 10 more, you can make a fortune selling FC's when you get them back-
Post by: jetjockey on January 26, 2011, 07:53:10 PM
Happy. My prices are not wrong. I know exactly what it costs for my dogs training and handling fees.
Post by: bonneylakebowman on January 27, 2011, 09:55:01 AM
Post by: wildweeds on January 27, 2011, 10:15:16 AM
When you consider that a "Board" fee in washington is going to be at the LEAST 15 dollars a day, 600 for training,high quality feed,and roading is cheap.The retriever guys are the cause for the high prices IMO.They were charging 700+ 9 years ago,I paid 400 month for training at that time. Hunting dog training or Trial dog training were the same prices at that time too.But the pointy trainers watched what the retriever guys were getting away with and followed suit,can you blame them? The retriever guys also caused a big price jump in the training bird costs.Pigeons were 1 dollar,then the retriever guys started paying more to try to get the market cornered.Pigeons are 3 bucks now.At one point they were selling for 4 dollars,pretty good for the pigeon trappers.
The thing to consider is how much work ethic does the trainer have? I know a couple I would NEVER EVER send a dog to.Because the dog would spend 80% of the time laying around and 20% getting worked.As to this nonsense of "Breaking" a dog on wild birds..................not buying into it.They need to be broke in a controlled enviorment then transitioned to wild birds,And I don't care where your at.Not every dog whelped is a superstar and short bus riders just ain't gonna get anywheres fast with a massive amount of unknowns that come with wild birds.You break them first to the "Green" broke stage THEN run em on wild birds.At least that way they have a good understanding of what's required.
As far as your georgia dog goes..............if the dog wins an AF purse that money goes to the handler..........Correct?
As far as what I typically paid for Entries/travel/training for a Season of trialing.......2500 bucks spring and fall.Total of 5K per year.Campaigned the dog 3 years and he was a good one with a place/win to times ran ratio of 50%.Last year I ran him he came home off the road with 9 ribbions in 7 trials.Thing with owning a Setter is ain't no one ever going to breed to it or get a pup out of a female that gets trialed.ALL stock is purchased from AF Kennels.So the thought train of "Bettering" the breed does not apply to AKC field dogs in the Pointer and Setter breed IMO.
No wild birds to run on in Washington state............???? Guess when I went along on a couple of training outings to sewed up private ground the chukars and huns the dogs pointed were on vacation and just visiting from Idaho or Oregon.Over 20 thousand acres of private training grounds in the chukar hills.My little guy had 4 finds one day, a covey of quail,rooster pheasant in the bottom and two coveys of chukars on top.
How old is this dog that your looking for the training on ? if it's less than 18 months and your looking to break ?
Post by: Bluemoon on January 27, 2011, 12:14:15 PM
I have an FC/AFC/MH He got his FC at 18 months.
Post by: jetjockey on January 27, 2011, 12:14:56 PM
Yes, the winnings go to the trainer/handler.
I think your right about prices. There isn't a ton of retriever trainers down in GA, but there are tons of pointer guys. Thats why the prices caught me off guard. Typically down by us you can expect to pay $400-$600 a month for training. IMO thats reasonable. $800+ per month is not. Many of the trial guys run camps in MT, ND, SD, and KS, and the price saving could easily make it worth the long drive to the Dakotas. I understand there are wild birds in WA as well, but the numbers just aren't comparable. I went to summer camp two years ago to watch my pup run. I asked my trainer how many pheasants we would move on the average evening running puppies. I though he was full of it when he said we would move 500-1000 birds. He wasn't! Ive never seen so many pheasants in my entire life. However, most of the training is done on sharptails and chickens in the prairies once the dogs mature.
The dog is currently 7 months old but won't start serious training until its 1. The goal would be to have her broke, or really close by hunting season in the fall. The problem with sending her to my trainer in SD is that she wouldn't get the yard work prior to SD, so she would be starting behind the 8 ball.. When I sent my pup off for the first time she had 1 month of yard work and then hit the ground running in SD. We dropped her off June 1st and she was in SD the first week of July, she had her first broke find by late July and was basically broke by mid August. She ran her first adult trial at 15 months old, and made it around. It shouldnt take much more then 2 or 3 months to get her broke if shes a decent dog. Dave Walker in ID is $600 a month, and might be a very good choice. His accomplishments speak for themselves.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on January 27, 2011, 03:21:13 PM
Post by: jetjockey on January 27, 2011, 08:33:25 PM
Post by: wildweeds on January 27, 2011, 10:00:04 PM
Usually $50 entry fee for a 30 minute trial and $100 for a 1 hr trial. Championships go up from there. Handling fee is $50 for a 30 minute, $100 for a 1 hr, and the same as the entry fee for a championship. The only "travel" expense is when the trainer goes out to summer camp in SD.
Post by: jetjockey on January 28, 2011, 06:10:09 AM
Heres some picktures from summer camp two years ago. The dog in the bottom picture is pointing a small covey of sharptail.
Post by: Rowdy on January 30, 2011, 04:36:20 PM
I'd rather spend a little more for a better product. It's the same for buying pups, I'd rather better my chances and get a well bred pup that might cost a little more.
I've spent money with three different pointing dog trainers in this state and two of the three were more than capable of finishing a dog. The prices varied and I went with the guy I felt most comfortable with. The third guy, well, lets just say I wouldn't allow him to walk my dog for free.
Again, its just my two cents. Best of luck and gotta love a pointer!
Jake
Post by: jetjockey on January 30, 2011, 06:22:15 PM
I understand 100% what you are saying. Luckily, the trainer I use is very reasonable, and his trial record speaks for itself. I have been very, very impressed with what hes done with my pup. I wouldn't have spent the money I have, if I wasn't extremely happy. He had her broke at less then 15 months (he didn't even receive her until 12 months), qualifed for Nationals at 22 months, and put her FC on her at less then 2.5 years old. But the best part is that even with all that handling off horseback, shes still a great hunting dog. Some trainers have that "way" with dogs, and some don't. I brought my pup home after her first summer at camp. At that point she had run in several trials but hadn't placed. However, she was still great to hunt over. Thats all I needed and was very happy. Her progression, wins and the FC afterwards were just icing on the cake. Ive got a lot of good info from people and talked to some people with good, and bad recomendations. My brother has a trainer in the NW that he is very happy with. At the end of the day, its all about what makes the owner happy. However, the owner, and the trainer need to have realistic expectations of what can be done with each individual dog.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on January 31, 2011, 08:39:38 AM
Your case made it sound very simple to get an FC on a dog. Which is by far and away not the truth. Some people spend $20K + chasing an FC on a dog for years and never get it. (pointers and retrievers)
Every trainer around is probably more than capable of doing the work. Not every owner is able to see what their dog is actually able to do- I think that is a big part of it. You had a very special dog and a cheap trainer who could do the work at a high level. I know a lot of pro's in the retriever world and they obviously will never bite the hand that feeds them- No talking bad about a client who has a mediocre dog but, writes a check every month.
There are also clients who bounce from trainer to trainer and talk smack at each place. There are certain trainers who will engage in that talk- not the good ones. Guys who talk about anything other than what they can do for you- well- they are what they are. usually lack class and make a false hype about themselves. They are usually the guys who get the people in the dog world who are known to be the big mouth gossipers that nobody really cares for-
Post by: Special T on January 31, 2011, 11:44:13 AM
Post by: jetjockey on January 31, 2011, 12:55:37 PM
Your thinking too far into this. My dads not looking for a field champion. Hes looking for someone to break his dog in about 2-3 months. Thats it. He wants a broke dog that handles. He's most likely not even going to run his dog in trials, and if he does, it will probably be one or two derby's, and thats it. I understand I got pretty lucky with my dog. However, the trainer got 4 of the 7 dogs from my pups litter, and every one of them were broke by the end of camp the first year. Some were more broke then the others, but every one knew what was expected, and just needed repetition to cement the training they had. My dog included. The major work was done. 3 months training for some of the guys around here is $2700. My dad doesn't have that kind of money to spend. Some of the guys are as little as $1800, and thats still expensive for someone who is retired. I don't talk bad about any of the trainers abilities. I may say that one is too expensive, but that says more about the trainers in the area who do the same thing for much cheaper. I said LongHollow was expensive, and they are when you can find other guys in the area with very good reputations for $600 per month. Ive hear Ryan does a pretty nice job, but like I said, he is very, very expensive. That in no way is any indication of his training abilities.
Post by: Happy Gilmore on January 31, 2011, 04:47:51 PM
Post by: chuckarchaser on June 15, 2011, 06:42:29 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 16, 2011, 12:50:41 AM
if it was me sir i would go to QUICKSILVER KENNELS in moses lake Wa. im 14 years old and mr. Rj Marquart trained my GSP and ive shot a awful lot of birds off this dog that Rj trained. if you would like his num. it is (509)765-1213. :)
What did you pay a month? That was the original question. I wonder about mid-west trainers. I've heard alot about all the wild birds they train dogs on. Are there no hunting seasons for wild birds?
Nobody in the Northwest Charges less than $850 a month unless you have exceptions for food, birds etc. Food, Fuel and birds are expensive. Some trainers might be less but, find out what the bird cost is. If you go to Jimmy Gonia for example, you have a baseline fee and birds are additional. The number of birds used is accounted for and based upon his call on how many birds he feels your dog needs for the stage of training he/she is at. It can be expensive. Wholesale ducks are $11 each. Pigeons $3.50. Chuckar $4. Quail $4. If your dog is through basics, it should have at least 4 birds shot over it a week while in training. I think most retrievers might get quite a few more than that. This doesn't account for the use of homing pigeons on training for pointers. (used to reduce costs obviously)
One excellent way of finding a good trainer is to contact the local breed club. If you have a German Shorthair, call the local club President. If you have a Springer Spaniel, call the local club President. These club Presidents are usually EXTREMELY involved with their specific breed and have been working with MANY different trainers over the years. Some Pros are better with specific breeds than others.
At the same time when you get trainer references, call the trainers and ask them which specific dogs they ran, who owned them and if, you can talk to the owners of the dogs they titled. Titles are confusing to people who don't play the AKC, UKC and APLA games.(american pointing labs). Everyone hears people say that their dogs have "Champion Bloodlines". That doesn't mean CHIT. Pro's who have worked with dogs from specific bloodlines can tell you how the dogs learn, how they train, how they hunt and a lot more information than just a guy telling you that his dog picked up 100 ducks in a season and was on a video. Some "fancy" dogs would be untrainable for the average joe while some dogs that look impressive wouldn't be anything without a very experienced trainer working behind the dog.
Research is the key to learning. Researching facts and talking to people who are in the know. A really good trainer can make a dog look amazing. The best thing you can do is hear the same name mentioned by numerous people who are in the business. Also, finding someone who matches your personality is also important. Again, research. Look up the local Britany Club and find a contact. Ask them questions. The purpose of local clubs is to help people get in contact with folks who know the breed. The Britany CLub President will have the best interest of the breed in mind if you call the person and ask for a recommendation.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on June 16, 2011, 05:28:41 AM
Post by: jetjockey on June 16, 2011, 09:23:16 AM
[/quote]
There are hunting seasons just like in WA, but places like SD allow dogs to be trained on wild birds out of season as well. Trainers use blank guns, just like they do in AKC/AF trials.
My dad decided to make the trip out to SD to drop his dog off with the trainer I use for summer camp. He leaves just after the 4th. He will pick her up mid September at the tail end of camp. Im going to go out with him to pick his dog up. Im going to practice running my dog off horseback in preperation for the trial season and the trainer is going to spend 2 days teaching my dad how to work his dog. BTW.. It will also coincide with the sharptail opener so we are combining a learning trip witha hunting trip. Can't wait..
BTW Happy. My dogs litter mate smoked her this spring and finished his FC just after he turned 2 1/2. He is in the top 10 in the nation for Brittany's in gun dog points. Sounds like FC's grow on trees. j/k
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 16, 2011, 11:36:59 PM
What did you pay a month? That was the original question. I wonder about mid-west trainers. I've heard alot about all the wild birds they train dogs on. Are there no hunting seasons for wild birds?
There are hunting seasons just like in WA, but places like SD allow dogs to be trained on wild birds out of season as well. Trainers use blank guns, just like they do in AKC/AF trials.
My dad decided to make the trip out to SD to drop his dog off with the trainer I use for summer camp. He leaves just after the 4th. He will pick her up mid September at the tail end of camp. Im going to go out with him to pick his dog up. Im going to practice running my dog off horseback in preperation for the trial season and the trainer is going to spend 2 days teaching my dad how to work his dog. BTW.. It will also coincide with the sharptail opener so we are combining a learning trip witha hunting trip. Can't wait..
BTW Happy. My dogs litter mate smoked her this spring and finished his FC just after he turned 2 1/2. He is in the top 10 in the nation for Brittany's in gun dog points. Sounds like FC's grow on trees. j/k
[/quote]
You run him in any hunt tests?
Post by: jetjockey on June 17, 2011, 06:00:09 AM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on June 17, 2011, 11:42:03 AM
My dogs brother is owned by a guy who is huge in the brittany field trial world. I think he has almost 9 or 10 dogs with the trainer at any one time, and another 10 dogs at home. He owns the sire to my dog. He has never run him in any hunt tests, and Ive never ran my dog in any. The only reason we are trialing our dog is because she did well as a young dog and showed lots of promise. So far, shes done well running as an adult as well.... I can't wait until February. She's going to run at the AKC Gun Dog Nationals at Ames Plantation in TN. Not sure if you know anything about Ames, but its the most storied field trial grounds in the country and the location of the AF All Age National Championship that is held every year. I can't wait to ride around on those grounds. It will be the equivelant of playing baseball in the old Yankee stadium.
Sounds like a blast! There is an 11 year old GSP here at the kennel who is a FC. He needs one leg of his Master this weekend to become a MH as well as a FC. He looks like he's 8 years old. A great dog and nice to have around as well. It will be an emotional day for the owner if he gets it this weekend.-
Post by: jetjockey on September 05, 2011, 11:57:00 PM
Post by: Happy Gilmore on September 06, 2011, 11:27:18 AM
Post by: ProsserChukar on September 07, 2011, 09:40:22 AM