Post by: nwalpineguide on February 06, 2011, 02:18:45 AM
An area where I lack hunting knowledge or understanding is my murky comprehension of the timing and causes of central Washington’s mule deer migrations. Actually, I’ve never had reason to fully understand the migration, nor have I been in a position to benefit from that understanding. Why? Since I typically hunt with a modern firearm in the Glacier Peak and Buckhorn Wildernesses during the mid September high-hunt, or later during the general season in October, I haven’t been too concerned with migrations and late season (November) hunting of mule deer. Truth be told, I’ve never had an opportunity to hunt during a late mule deer season because I have never been awarded a modern firearm late season permit for mulies. Period. Not for lack of applying mind you. I’m just not very lucky that way!
Nevertheless, I’d really be disappointed with myself if I was lucky enough in future to be awarded one of those coveted late season special deer permits from one of the HOT areas; such as the Entiat, Swakane, Alta, Manson, Chiwawa, Mission and Slide Ridge units etc, and not understand what the behaviors or habits of the bucks from those areas is during those special permit hunt periods. I assume that many bucks will have already migrated to limited geographic localities (near doe groups) within those units specifically to breed does. Consequently, I suspect that around the peak of the rut; say the 15th of November to the 20th might be a great time to collect one of those trophy class bucks that have migrated down out of the wilderness and has become a bit addled or preoccupied. Snickering aside you know what I mean fellows. Correct me if I’m wrong but I surmise that those two conditions; the rut in full swing and bucks that have migrated down out of the wilderness, might just increase the odds a tad in favor of any late season permit holder.
Indeed, I’m not completely ignorant. I know common knowledge has it that a big fall snow storm dumping 10 to 15+ inches of snow in the high-country in October may act as a trigger to get some bucks, certainly does and fawns migrating out of wilderness. On the other hand, what happens if it warms back up into the 70’s or 80’s and all the snow that fell melts? Do those bucks turn around and march right back up whence they came? Or, on the contrary do they simply continue on down to traditional wintering areas they have a fidelity to? Perhaps they stage in transition areas between summer range and winter range. I really don’t know. That’s a brutal demonstration of my ignorance. But I am curious like Scully and Mulder and I want to know, and believe.
Here’s something to consider, how about those Indian summer years with 70 degree temps through October with no snow or even a cold rain occurring in the high-country until Thanksgiving? Remember 1987, 1988, and those years in the early 90’s with 80 degree F temps during general hunting season? I do. What do those big mulies do when those early fall storms don’t even occur and no snow falls until after the late season hunt dates have passed? Do they just stay up there?
I guess another, perhaps, simplistic way of stating it is this: do those bucks migrate out of the high country each year at about the same time regardless of weather and forage conditions on their summer home ranges? In addition, does the rut have something to do with it, or is that not a factor? To the best of my understanding these two mule deer behaviors; migration and rut are mutually exclusive and operate for the most part independently of each other. However, I’m no biologist, far from it. The facts I know I secure from personal observation and popular literature. Popular literature is rife with the details about whitetail rut. However, the lack of detail about mule deer rut is puzzling; perhaps I’m just looking in the wrong places or reading the wrong books and magazines.
Therefore I call out to the community for observations and anecdotes about the mysterious mule deer migration (and rut) in hopes of shedding some light on my crepuscular knowledge of these interesting animals and their mysterious ways.
Accordingly, knowledge must be dovetailed into the proper context and perspectives lest chaos rule. So, let’s keep it simple.
Perhaps the best thing is to provide observations about the Entiat herd migration and rut behaviors. This, because 5,662 applications for modern firearm special permits in 2009 beats hell out of the next most popular unit, the Swakane with 2,649 followed by the Chiwawa with 2420. Five thousand plus people can’t all be ignorant on this subject. Especially since the hunt dates are so narrow, November 1-20.
Considering that 5,662 people know a hell of allot more about the Entiat unit and the deer that call it winter range than I, there must be at least 7 persons that will share some “expert” observations with the rest of us. Besides, 5,662 opinions would be too much to deal with.
Kind regards,
nwalpineguide
ps
Since nobody is ever seriously interested in publicly expounding on this sort of vaulted hunting knowledge, I’ll gladly accept your responses off-line via personal e-mail if you’re not comfortable with posting here and demonstrating your erudition.
Post by: ICEMAN on February 06, 2011, 06:37:34 AM
I would argue that the majority of those applying for these coveted late buck migratory hunts are folks who may not have any special knowledge about the units, and are simply jumping on the application bandwagon. They have read stories or heard gossip around the campfire. Every year we hear from hunters so blessed with the permits, yet have no idea where to start in preparations for one of these hunts.
Additionally, don't assume that folks are not interested in openly sharing knowledge in the open forum about these hunts, I am sure you will find many who are willing to do so.
Did you search this site for specific information about the Entiat rut? There is alot of discussion available there already, this topic is not new at all.
Post by: bobcat on February 06, 2011, 09:10:17 AM
http://www.chelanpud.org/rr_relicense/study/reports/4768_3.pdf (http://www.chelanpud.org/rr_relicense/study/reports/4768_3.pdf)
Post by: UBA on February 06, 2011, 02:47:24 PM
Post by: haugenna on February 06, 2011, 04:11:37 PM
ps
Since nobody is ever seriously interested in publicly expounding on this sort of vaulted hunting knowledge, I’ll gladly accept your responses off-line via personal e-mail if you’re not comfortable with posting here and demonstrating your erudition.
Why would they do that? Your fingers do way too much talking. Nothing is sacred.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 06, 2011, 05:13:00 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on February 06, 2011, 07:37:26 PM
Post by: elksnout on February 06, 2011, 08:46:05 PM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 07, 2011, 05:49:24 AM
You know that area pretty well between fall and late winter. You could probably share some perspective.
Post by: Lowedog on February 07, 2011, 07:49:22 AM
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 07, 2011, 12:10:47 PM
Post by: Lowedog on February 07, 2011, 01:42:57 PM
He gets out there alot more than most of you. He was looking to see if the info he has gathered agrees with others.
That is not what he eluded to in his post. :dunno:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 07, 2011, 01:52:51 PM
Post by: kenjo on February 07, 2011, 03:39:43 PM
In other words, applying for a permit in any of those units is a complete waste of time and I don't think anybody should bother.
Hope this helps.
:fire.:
Post by: MtnMuley on February 07, 2011, 03:46:50 PM
In the Entiat, Chiwawa and Slide Ridge units the big bucks stay up high until their "transmissions" are plowing snow, then they head north to Lake Chelan, swim across, climb up into the rocky cliffs and hang out on the south slopes with the mountain goats and bighorn sheep.
In other words, applying for a permit in any of those units is a complete waste of time and I don't think anybody should bother.
Hope this helps.
:fire.:
So, what you're saying is that the Manson Unit late permit is the best? :chuckle:
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 07, 2011, 05:16:52 PM
Post by: 400out on February 07, 2011, 05:43:18 PM
Yes the manson unit. The fall migration across lake Chelan is incredible. They get in these Huge rafts and float across the lake. From years of doing this they know to float in the morning before the winds of Chelan pick up in the afternoon. Then the Spring trek back is a thing to behold but they are not as worried as they are in the fall with their big racks potentially poking holes in the rafts. Its a migration everyone should witness.I will go watch it if you sit there with me ;)
Post by: Skyvalhunter on February 08, 2011, 05:45:50 AM
Post by: alecvg on February 08, 2011, 07:56:29 PM
The rut gets bucks on the move -- be it in the high mountains or the low valleys. This can drive a certain amount of deer down. Heavy snows will bring the others down. If a big buck as a fawn was taught to stay up high until he couldn't make it anymore then "migrate" down, I'm sure he will be a late "migrator". If a buck as a fawn was taught to move down to easier conditions upon minimal weather, I would assume he would be an early "migrator". Some of the deer are local (more than I bet a lot of hunters think). Some of those elusive high country boys in my opinion, don't like anything but solitude. I'm not sure if they even care too much about the rut. My overall opinion is, the rut will get a lot of deer moving and noticible to hunters; winter weather will bring the others down depending on severity. :twocents:
:yeah:
Post by: wilsongideon on February 08, 2011, 10:40:42 PM
Try this:
http://www.chelanpud.org/rr_relicense/study/reports/4768_3.pdf (http://www.chelanpud.org/rr_relicense/study/reports/4768_3.pdf)
well according to this deer do swim the lake? or am I looking at those gps tracking dots wrong?
Post by: Lowedog on February 08, 2011, 11:16:03 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on February 08, 2011, 11:22:08 PM
Post by: kerrdog on February 10, 2011, 07:22:51 PM
Post by: muleracks on February 16, 2011, 02:45:12 PM
That's way we call it the Deerless Entiat. There really is no reason for anyone to hunt the GMUs south of Lake Chelan (Entiat, Slide Ridge, Chiwawa, Clark, Swakane, Mission, Alpine); wolves ate them.
Post by: Lowedog on February 16, 2011, 04:06:57 PM