Post by: bigelk1030 on February 21, 2011, 09:38:40 PM
I was hunting in Alberta in early December and shot a nice mule deer my third morning of hunting. That evening, in about a foot of snow and -9 degree F weather, I was hunting for whitetail and we spotted a 170 class buck at the bottom of a wooded draw. We walked up one side of the draw, when we got to the top of the draw the buck was standing broadside at about 150 yards.
I rested my rifle on a wood fence post and found the buck in my scope. I squeezed the trigger, the gun fired, but the deer didn’t react. I chambered another round, the buck was walking slowly but stopped. I once again found the buck in my scope and squeezed the trigger.
The next thing I knew, my left hand was numb and I had part of the laminated wood stock in my left hand. The guy I was hunting with said (in a panicked voice) what the hell happened to your gun? I didn’t realize at that second what had happened, the gun fired and was in pieces in my hand (In retrospect, I was probably in a bit of shock.)
As you can see from the pictures, the barrel split from one end down to the where the casing is. The bolt wouldn’t open and the shell casing was stuck in the action, until I took it to a gunsmith here. It appears the only part that survived is the Leupold scope.
I called Winchester and they didn’t seem to care much at all with what happened. The guy I spoke with said the only time he had ever heard of something like this was when someone put a .308 cartridge into a .270 (which is not the case).
Luckily nobody was hurt bad. The numbness in my left hand went away after a couple of days, although my hearing in my left ear is noticeably worse (going to an ear doctor on Friday). Thank goodness the guy I was hunting with was behind me!
The rifle is a .270 Winchester model 70 that I purchased new in about 1993. I was shooting Federal Premium (factory loads) with a 130 grain Nosler Ballistic tip bullet. I would guess I have put less than 250 rounds through the rifle.
I took it to a local gunsmith and all we can figure is the first bullet never left the barrel. If there was debris in the barrel there should have been some indication with the first shot. In his 25 years in the business he had never seen anything like this. The stock is busted up, the barrel is split (from one end all the way down into the threads) and the action appears to be bent. (Bolt rubs when its cycled).
I think I will put it on my wall as a reminder to how lucky I was or I have even thought about sharing it with a Hunters Education course to show people what can happen.
As I said in the beginning, I wanted to share this with you, probably more a reminder on gun safety than anything else.
Open for serious thoughts about what your theory is on why it happened, was it the cold weather? Debris? Short load in the first shot? I will probably never know, but just damn happy nobody was seriously hurt.
Thanks for reading.
Post by: washelkhntr on February 21, 2011, 09:40:08 PM
Post by: halflife65 on February 21, 2011, 09:59:51 PM
Not sure what happened - my initial thought was that the first bullet didn't leave the barrel but I dunno. My uncle blew up a shotgun about 2 years ago but he actually had some stuff stuck in the barrel and didn't realize it.
Post by: denali on February 21, 2011, 10:04:41 PM
Post by: FC on February 21, 2011, 10:19:49 PM
Post by: bobcat on February 21, 2011, 10:26:30 PM
I take it the deer walked away unharmed?
Post by: duckaholic on February 21, 2011, 10:47:55 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 21, 2011, 11:51:11 PM
Post by: bowhunterforever on February 22, 2011, 12:19:18 AM
Post by: toothfangclaw on February 22, 2011, 01:53:25 AM
Post by: Little Dave on February 22, 2011, 01:58:36 AM
Possible that any snow got in there?
Post by: rasbo on February 22, 2011, 03:37:59 AM
Post by: BallisticsNut on February 22, 2011, 06:35:10 AM
Not that I have any personal knowledge if this happening in another case, seems to me that this could have been caused by a multitude of the aforementioned items. If the rifle had not been cleaned prior to this hunt, its possible there may have been a foreign body in the barrel prior to the first shot. Wet cold weather carrying the rifle barrel up, could compromise the barrell/bolt over a course of a couple days (wet cold and condensation in the barrel, stored overnite in warm climate-repeat process)
Whatever it was that caused this, I want to avoid the same "steps in the process".
Post by: jackmaster on February 22, 2011, 06:59:53 AM
Post by: HornHoarder on February 22, 2011, 07:07:51 AM
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on February 22, 2011, 08:28:59 AM
I have hunted and shot numerous weapons in Alaska in the military. In temps up to negative 75. So the temp will not compromise the steel. Only thing it does it make it cold to have in your hands or by your face.
If you shot at the mule deer earlier and then you brought that gun in from the outside and it warmed up and made condensation inside the barrel and then you brought it back outside allowing it to freeze again you may have gotten ice in the barrel, could have been ( usually towards the very end of the barrel this occurs. First round may have not made it out of barrel but made it almost to the end of the barrel. And second round comes smoking down and impacts and you get what you have. Ice melts from inside of barrel nothing left for evidence. I say this not because I am an expert but have seen it happen a couple of times with military weapons.
Once again glad you made it out of that with no serious injuries.
Joe
Post by: Jason on February 22, 2011, 08:36:25 AM
Post by: bigelk1030 on February 22, 2011, 08:43:26 AM
The deer wasn't hit, we looked for blood in the snow, who knows where the second shot even ended up. We actually looked for it but by the time I got my bearings straight (out of shock) it was too dark to shoot.
As for it being a 170 class deer, there were 3 other people from Alberta that had saw it, and they all stated it was that size, I know it was big, but I am not an expert on field judging whitetails, but I take their word for it.
Not that I have any personal knowledge if this happening in another case, seems to me that this could have been caused by a multitude of the aforementioned items. If the rifle had not been cleaned prior to this hunt, its possible there may have been a foreign body in the barrel prior to the first shot. Wet cold weather carrying the rifle barrel up, could compromise the barrell/bolt over a course of a couple days (wet cold and condensation in the barrel, stored overnite in warm climate-repeat process)
Whatever it was that caused this, I want to avoid the same "steps in the process".
I shot a mule deer that morning, so the gun was working fine then, it was cleaned just prior to the trip, it was in the warm truck then into the cold/snow, so it could of iced up, I dont recall falling or getting the barrel into the snow. One thought I have had is maybe with the barrel on the floorboard something did get into it, but it makes no sense why the first shot went off and this happened on the second.
I added a few more pics................
Post by: Rob on February 22, 2011, 08:51:38 AM
Post by: bigelk1030 on February 22, 2011, 08:58:15 AM
My guess is for the barrel to split like that, is the first bullet was stuck towards the end of the barrel :dunno:
You and blkbearklr are probably on to something, if you look at the end of the barrel pic (below), its black and looks as though there was something there, could of been ice or the first bullet. The gunsmith picked up on this also, but we didnt discuss the ice scenario.
Post by: bigelk1030 on February 22, 2011, 09:00:12 AM
I'd send the scope in to Leupold before I remounted it... They do free inspections.
Great point, I will do that. Kudo's to Leupold it appears its the only part that survived. :)
Post by: MikeWalking on February 22, 2011, 09:02:16 AM
Post by: bigelk1030 on February 22, 2011, 09:08:08 AM
glad that you ok man, pretty *censored*ty of winchester, to not really care, you would think they would love to test it to see if it was inferior steel.
I agree, although it may be a bullet issue, I would of thought Winchester would of liked to look at it. Where I work, if we have any issue like this at all we get it back for an analysis to see what happen. If anything, I would think they would want to get it out of the public.
One reason I waited so long to post it was to see if I could get them to talk to me, the guys I spoke with on the phone were no help, I looked all over for an email address to send them the photos and no luck there either.
I have the gun, its been taken apart and inspected. I tried to use the action to build a new gun but it was just too risky not understanding if the split affected it. The split on the barrel went down to 3/8 of an inch from splitting all the way through, well into the threads.
Post by: Rob on February 22, 2011, 09:17:33 AM
have you contaced Federal to get their take? could be an ammo issue.
If you fire the first round, and the bullet were to lodge in the end of the barrel for some reason, what happens to the gasses behind the first bullet? I would think it would make an odd noise, or belch fire out the bolt.
But I know how buck fever is - it would be easy to not notice such things while trying to take shots on a nice animal.
My guess is Winchester is laying low to avoid a potential lawsuit.
Post by: MikeWalking on February 22, 2011, 09:22:56 AM
Quote
If you fire the first round, and the bullet were to lodge in the end of the barrel for some reason, what happens to the gasses behind the first bullet? I would think it would make an odd noise, or belch fire out the bolt.
I've got a very old Winchester action with a vent for just that...for a ruptured case at least...
Post by: woodswalker on February 22, 2011, 09:27:07 AM
Post by: quadrafire on February 22, 2011, 09:36:25 AM
Post by: Curly on February 22, 2011, 10:47:08 AM
Looking at the muzzle pic it appears that there is a bulge about an inch back from the muzzle...I'm wondering if there was rain/snow/ice in the muzzle that the first bullet managed to pass, but started the split in the barrel. Then the second shot finished it off.
That is my thoughts as well. The first shot probably punched the ice/snow out of the end of the barrel, leaving the first bullet resting near the end of the barrel. Then the second bullet comes along and hit the stuck first bullet causing the catastrophic failure. (Maybe the first shot didn't sound too much out of the ordinary because of the monster buck in front of you and because the ice plug probably left at a pretty decent velocity.............
Post by: bigelk1030 on February 22, 2011, 04:38:59 PM
have you contaced Federal to get their take? could be an ammo issue.
My guess is Winchester is laying low to avoid a potential lawsuit.
I haven't contacted Federal, I probably should have, I was fairly convinced they would give me the stiff arm like Winchester did. Exactly for the reason you quote, avoiding a lawsuit.
I have the casing it happened with and the box it came from, I would be willing to let Federal or Winchester inspect the gun and casing, but I have little hope they would want to see it. My :twocents:
Post by: 509er on February 22, 2011, 04:50:09 PM
Post by: gaddy on February 22, 2011, 05:15:48 PM
Post by: bigelk1030 on February 22, 2011, 05:40:43 PM
Anyone have the email address for someone (preferably senior management) at Winchester?
Post by: Raul Duke on February 22, 2011, 06:35:58 PM
Post by: wsucowboy on February 22, 2011, 06:40:48 PM
Post by: huntandjeep on February 22, 2011, 07:35:20 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on February 22, 2011, 08:28:10 PM
Post by: bigelk1030 on February 22, 2011, 08:55:22 PM
I'm glad to be able to read a story written by the person this happened to. Could have been a lot worse. Say your prayers.
Thank you, your note hit home, I pause every once in a while and think 'what if'.
I am very very lucky to make it through with no major injuries. Things could of been really bad, I was many miles from a hospital, it could of hurt the guy I was with, lots of what if's. I will take a little hearing loss over what could have been.
Post by: bigelk1030 on February 22, 2011, 09:06:19 PM
WOW!! You are lucky to have all your digits still!!
With the cold weather I was wearing a thick winter mitten, I am sure it absorbed a lot of the energy, with out it I may have lost some fingers. As I mentioned, my hand was numb, actually tingled for a few days, my fingertips were bruised (around the nails) for a few weeks.
I attended the hunters ed course with my son right after I returned from the hunt, they showed some pictures of hands half gone from gun and muzzleloader incidents. Thought long and hard about how close I was to losing my hand.
I have thought, what if the stock was walnut or synthetic? I think the laminated wood held together better than the others would have. I might of been picking pieces of synthetic stock out of my hand.