Post by: grandpawrichard on February 24, 2011, 12:38:59 PM
I just received a Text message and photo from Lakota Archery Headquarters and I was Totally Blown Away with what I saw and read!
The message was that they finally replaced the Chronograph and began testing one of our Lakota Takini bows. The bow was set up with our New Large Cams, Barnsdale Limbs, ProStrings, Bowjax products and a drop-away arrow rest.
The poundage was 67 pounds, 30 inch draw length, a Cheetah 400 full- length arrow with a 100 -grain field tip. (yes, I understand that this arrow was almost too under spined for the draw weight, but it was the only size arrow they had at the time!)
Repeatedly the bow was shot through the chronograph at speeds in the mid 390 feet per second range! The Highest speeds were 396 feet per second. (see photo below)
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1232.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fff377%2FDickRaymond%2FLakota%2520Archery%2FLakotaTakiniSpeed.jpg&hash=a20d09359c853d4b2e3313f388aa018ad5809d82)
We all knew we had a Great Product that produced Fast speeds, but we didn’t know how fast due to a Chronograph that died on us! Now we know; and we are here to shout it from the Roof Tops. “We Have Arrived and We Are Here To Stay!”
Dick Raymond
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on February 24, 2011, 12:56:40 PM
Post by: Lowedog on February 24, 2011, 01:05:23 PM
Not sure what length a full length Cheetah 400 is but I'm assuming it is around 32". At 6.4gpi and with nock inserts and vanes if any that is close to an IBO 350gr arrow which means your bow would be around 400fps IBO?
Post by: halflife65 on February 24, 2011, 02:13:48 PM
If that's correct, that is REALLY fast.
Post by: LittleJohn on February 24, 2011, 02:21:00 PM
Post by: alwinearcher on February 24, 2011, 02:40:33 PM
Can you give anymore specs like brace height and let off?
Not sure what length a full length Cheetah 400 is but I'm assuming it is around 32". At 6.4gpi and with nock inserts and vanes if any that is close to an IBO 350gr arrow which means your bow would be around 400fps IBO?
My guess is that a full length cheetah 400 would be closer to 325 grns? :dunno:
It would be interesting to know exactly what the arrow weighs..
Post by: grandpawrichard on February 24, 2011, 03:23:56 PM
Can you give anymore specs like brace height and let off?
Not sure what length a full length Cheetah 400 is but I'm assuming it is around 32". At 6.4gpi and with nock inserts and vanes if any that is close to an IBO 350gr arrow which means your bow would be around 400fps IBO?
That's easy! :)
Bow Specs for Takini
Axle to Axle: 36"
Riser Style: Reflex
Eccentrics: Lakota Dual Cams Patent Pending
Let-off: 65%
Draw Weight (lbs.): 50 to 75 [10 pound increments (50-60, 60-70, 65-75)}
Draw Length: 26 to 31"
String Length: 55.1/4"
Harness Length: 37.1/4"
Brace Height: 6"
Physical Weight (lbs): 3.45
String Material Pre-stretched: 452X
The bow comes with:
Barnsdale Limbs (the finest limbs on the market!)
ProString Custom String and Cables
Bowjax Products
And it is made of 100% American Materials and Parts by Native Americans in Timber Lake, South Dakota! :)
Dick
Post by: alwinearcher on February 24, 2011, 03:26:11 PM
Can you give anymore specs like brace height and let off?
Not sure what length a full length Cheetah 400 is but I'm assuming it is around 32". At 6.4gpi and with nock inserts and vanes if any that is close to an IBO 350gr arrow which means your bow would be around 400fps IBO?
That's easy! :)
Bow Specs for Takini
Axle to Axle: 36"
Riser Style: Reflex
Eccentrics: Lakota Dual Cams Patent Pending
Let-off: 65%
Draw Weight (lbs.): 50 to 75 [10 pound increments (50-60, 60-70, 65-75)}
Draw Length: 26 to 31"
String Length: 55.1/4"
Harness Length: 37.1/4"
Brace Height: 6"
Physical Weight (lbs): 3.45
String Material Pre-stretched: 452X
The bow comes with:
Barnsdale Limbs (the finest limbs on the market!)
ProString Custom String and Cables
Bowjax Products
And it is made of 100% American Materials and Parts by Native Americans in Timber Lake, South Dakota! :)
Dick
Dick,
So do you know what the exact arrow weight was of the 396 FPS test?
Post by: grandpawrichard on February 24, 2011, 03:27:04 PM
Can you give anymore specs like brace height and let off?
Not sure what length a full length Cheetah 400 is but I'm assuming it is around 32". At 6.4gpi and with nock inserts and vanes if any that is close to an IBO 350gr arrow which means your bow would be around 400fps IBO?
My guess is that a full length cheetah 400 would be closer to 325 grns? :dunno:
It would be interesting to know exactly what the arrow weighs..
One Hundred Percent Correct Lowedog! You nailed it dead on the money! I suggested to them that they go with a little heavier spine and weight on the arrow, but was told that they only had Cheetah 400's at the factory at the present time.
Dick
Post by: grandpawrichard on February 24, 2011, 03:28:54 PM
So do you know what the exact arrow weight was of the 396 FPS test?
[/quote]
Yes, my Good Friend I do! It weighed in at 325 grains. A touch Low and a little light on the spine for my liking!
Dick
Post by: Lowedog on February 24, 2011, 03:44:04 PM
Post by: alwinearcher on February 24, 2011, 03:48:02 PM
Corrected for arrow weight and draw weight that puts it at 393 IBO . Would love to see a picture of this bow, especially the cams! It has to be operating at nearly 100% efficiency which would blow the competition out of the water.
I figured the same, IBO in the low 390's ...
I did nail the arrow weight though with my guess ;)
Post by: grandpawrichard on February 24, 2011, 04:05:45 PM
Corrected for arrow weight and draw weight that puts it at 393 IBO . Would love to see a picture of this bow, especially the cams! It has to be operating at nearly 100% efficiency which would blow the competition out of the water.
I wish I had some photos to share with you right now, but I don't. :( If you can hold off until next week when the new website comes up you will get to see the photos. :)
I'll look through my computer and see if I can post some pclose up photos of my Lakota Ogala with the new cams. It's a sweet shooting little guy with a butter smooth draw cycle. :)
Dick
Post by: grandpawrichard on February 24, 2011, 04:24:18 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hunt101.com%2Fdata%2F500%2FTakini_6.jpg&hash=6bdd13669cd003cf941bad358d1254fdd4379c5b)
Please remember, that this cam is on a different model of a Lakota bow! The cams are the same, the bow is not!
Dick
Post by: Button Nubbs on February 24, 2011, 10:28:03 PM
Post by: turkey buster on February 24, 2011, 10:36:54 PM
Post by: hoyt2002 on February 24, 2011, 11:02:48 PM
Post by: Hornseeker on February 25, 2011, 07:09:26 AM
That is quick.
Post by: grandpawrichard on February 25, 2011, 08:31:52 PM
Dick
Post by: alwinearcher on February 25, 2011, 08:36:27 PM
Thanks guys! :) The bow is available now. Our new website will be activated by the middle of next week and it will have photos and specs on all of our bows. :)
Dick
Its is available already? where r the pics?
Post by: 400out on February 25, 2011, 08:41:42 PM
Post by: GlennGTR on February 25, 2011, 09:15:11 PM
Post by: gjbruny on February 25, 2011, 11:20:35 PM
if those numbers are accurate, you are about to go for a wild ride with your company. best of luck to you.! ;)
Post by: millertime89 on February 26, 2011, 12:00:51 AM
Post by: Hornseeker on February 26, 2011, 07:47:08 AM
Post by: throttlejocky20 on February 26, 2011, 02:03:53 PM
Cams shaped like footballs and a 2" brace height? :chuckle:Fast bow but this tells me its a rough draw cycle and extremely unforgiving
If that's correct, that is REALLY fast.
Post by: Button Nubbs on February 26, 2011, 10:48:08 PM
Some like speed, some don't.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on February 26, 2011, 11:39:26 PM
Post by: vaz,,66 on May 12, 2011, 03:55:46 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on May 12, 2011, 04:03:40 PM
Post by: MtnMuley on May 12, 2011, 04:11:28 PM
I was told that if a bow shoots a real fast speed as advertised, it would be illegal in Washington State. Is that true ?
No. You need to follow the WA state requirements for grains though, which might slow it down a little.
Post by: vaz,,66 on May 12, 2011, 04:44:11 PM
Quote
The IBO speed for allmost any bow usually been taking with 30in draw 70lb and approximately 315-330gr arrow just to advertise a bow. According to the regulation in our state it is illegal to use a such lite arrow with 70lb that's mean you will have to use approximately 420gr witch will reduce your speed. An example I have Z7 IBO 333 ft/sec. my setup is 28in 70lb and arrow i use weight 420 gr and the speed i have is 285ft/sec
Question. I bought a bow last year and questioned about these high speeds you see on TV. I was told that if a bow shoots a real fast speed as advertised, it would be illegal in Washington State. Is that true ?
Post by: CAMPMEAT on May 12, 2011, 05:14:01 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on May 12, 2011, 05:18:46 PM
QuoteThe IBO speed for allmost any bow usually been taking with 30in draw 70lb and approximately 315-330gr arrow just to advertise a bow. According to the regulation in our state it is illegal to use a such lite arrow with 70lb that's mean you will have to use approximately around 420gr witch will reduce your speed. An example I have Z7 IBO 333 ft/sec. my setup is 28in 70lb and arrow i use weight 420 gr and the speed i have is 285ft/sec
Question. I bought a bow last year and questioned about these high speeds you see on TV. I was told that if a bow shoots a real fast speed as advertised, it would be illegal in Washington State. Is that true ?
bows are tested for IBO speed at 30 inch draw 70 lb and 350 grain arrow... or 5 grains per pound
Post by: vaz,,66 on May 12, 2011, 05:41:32 PM
Quote
bows are tested for IBO speed at 30 inch draw 70 lb and 350 grain arrow... or 5 grains per pound
Doesn't change the whale idea anyway
Post by: Matt on May 13, 2011, 07:53:27 AM
If infact it comes within 30fps of what Richard posted I garanty that 99.9% of archers on this site couldn't shoot it accurately with a BH. Even the mighty Mr. Alwine couldn't accurately shoot it. Speed is not the holy grail of archery. When will people get it through their heads that the animal that you are aiming at desirves that you place that arrow with the best accurace that you can muster. Shooting at a dot on a bail in your back yard doesn't make you an accurate hunter either. Speed is nice and anything in the 270-300 fps (hunting set ups) range is more than adiquate.
I haven't seen this bow or any other bow that is made by Lakota. I am sure that they are decent but a bow with an IBO speed rating of 390fps will end up in the same place that the Black Max, Black Knight and whatever the name of that High Country bow was. Why is that because the only reason folks bought them was because of their IBO rating, they soon found out that they weren't very forgiving. There are a ton of bows out there that are fast enough and are very forgiving.
Post by: Sliverslinger on May 14, 2011, 08:20:53 AM
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 14, 2011, 07:19:08 PM
This bow has been hyped but no one has actually seen it or verified such speeds.
If infact it comes within 30fps of what Richard posted I garanty that 99.9% of archers on this site couldn't shoot it accurately with a BH. Even the mighty Mr. Alwine couldn't accurately shoot it. Speed is not the holy grail of archery. When will people get it through their heads that the animal that you are aiming at desirves that you place that arrow with the best accurace that you can muster. Shooting at a dot on a bail in your back yard doesn't make you an accurate hunter either. Speed is nice and anything in the 270-300 fps (hunting set ups) range is more than adiquate.
I haven't seen this bow or any other bow that is made by Lakota. I am sure that they are decent but a bow with an IBO speed rating of 390fps will end up in the same place that the Black Max, Black Knight and whatever the name of that High Country bow was. Why is that because the only reason folks bought them was because of their IBO rating, they soon found out that they weren't very forgiving. There are a ton of bows out there that are fast enough and are very forgiving.
the black max has an ibo rating of 330+ and the black knight has an ibo rating of 350. the bows of today can reach speeds of 350 and most companies are producing bows that are WAY faster than 330. why do you say it will end up in the category of these bows? there are tons of people that can shoot deadly accurate with bows of these speeds. hell, there are people out there who cant shoot very accurate with a bow that is shooting 260 or slower.
why should a company produce a bow with a slower ibo speed? the goal of a business is to make money and guess what, just like sex, speed sells, like it or noit thats the way it is. until people stop feeding into the "speed craze" companies will not stop trying to create the fastest bow.
do your thing grandpawrichard! i hope you proove all the haters wrong and make a ton of cash! :brew:
Post by: vaz,,66 on May 14, 2011, 07:46:31 PM
Post by: Lowedog on May 14, 2011, 08:08:04 PM
Post by: Matt on May 15, 2011, 08:16:59 AM
The ability to shoot is just one aspect. For every 10fps an arrow tipped with a fixed blade travels above 270 fps makes bow tuning and arrow tuning much more critical. I know some of the best archers in the world and none of them choose a hunting bow based on speed. And a good % of those don't shoot faster than 280fps with a hunting rig. In fact most 3-D guys that are shooting the IBO standard don't come close to finishing in the top 3 at a marked yardage shoot because they can't control the speed. That's a fact. There is a point where a compromise is a must.
Lakota is appealing to the speed crowd. Good for them and I wish them luck. But I will bet that this particular bow will not take the archery world by storm. It's a tough market out there and saying that your bow can shoot 396 IBO will definately sell a couple bows. I would love to try this bow and see for myself. And if it is all that and jam too then I would be the first to tell people.
Just for the record I am not bashing. I want hunters to hit the woods with quality equipment that they can confidently and ethically harvest game with. I spend almost the whole month of August helping guys shoot better for hunting season and I see way too many hunters out there that are way over bowed for their ability. Like I said before. We owe it to the animal to make the best shot possible.
Post by: dreamingbig on May 15, 2011, 08:34:20 AM
This bow has been hyped but no one has actually seen it or verified such speeds.
If infact it comes within 30fps of what Richard posted I garanty that 99.9% of archers on this site couldn't shoot it accurately with a BH. Even the mighty Mr. Alwine couldn't accurately shoot it. Speed is not the holy grail of archery. When will people get it through their heads that the animal that you are aiming at desirves that you place that arrow with the best accurace that you can muster. Shooting at a dot on a bail in your back yard doesn't make you an accurate hunter either. Speed is nice and anything in the 270-300 fps (hunting set ups) range is more than adiquate.
I haven't seen this bow or any other bow that is made by Lakota. I am sure that they are decent but a bow with an IBO speed rating of 390fps will end up in the same place that the Black Max, Black Knight and whatever the name of that High Country bow was. Why is that because the only reason folks bought them was because of their IBO rating, they soon found out that they weren't very forgiving. There are a ton of bows out there that are fast enough and are very forgiving.
Well said! I wouldn't consider shooting this bow. At 6" brace height and that speed you are going to have a heck of a time tuning and shooting it accurately. Good luck.
Post by: Lowedog on May 15, 2011, 09:04:06 AM
I am not doubting any bows speed ability. I am doubting that the majority of hunters that look at the IBO rating before any other spec can't keep a fixed blade broadhead in the kill zone at 50 yards. I am not talking about the guy that goes to tournaments every weekend and shoots a 100+ arrows a day practicing. I am talking about the average hunter. I am not putting anyone down either. I am just stating a fact.
The ability to shoot is just one aspect. For every 10fps an arrow tipped with a fixed blade travels above 270 fps makes bow tuning and arrow tuning much more critical. I know some of the best archers in the world and none of them choose a hunting bow based on speed. And a good % of those don't shoot faster than 280fps with a hunting rig. In fact most 3-D guys that are shooting the IBO standard don't come close to finishing in the top 3 at a marked yardage shoot because they can't control the speed. That's a fact. There is a point where a compromise is a must.
Lakota is appealing to the speed crowd. Good for them and I wish them luck. But I will bet that this particular bow will not take the archery world by storm. It's a tough market out there and saying that your bow can shoot 396 IBO will definately sell a couple bows. I would love to try this bow and see for myself. And if it is all that and jam too then I would be the first to tell people.
Just for the record I am not bashing. I want hunters to hit the woods with quality equipment that they can confidently and ethically harvest game with. I spend almost the whole month of August helping guys shoot better for hunting season and I see way too many hunters out there that are way over bowed for their ability. Like I said before. We owe it to the animal to make the best shot possible.
Lakota lists their speed bow at 355 IBO not 396. GPR stated that the arrow used to shoot that 396 that was pictured was not an IBO weight arrow. Lots of companies have bows rated in the 350 range and lots of people shoot them very accurately. There are guys who want the fastest thing out there and that is fine. Blaming poor accuracy on archers that don't practice enough on speed alone is kind of ridiculous. The same guy who doesn't pick up his bow until hunting season is going to shoot poorly no matter how fast it is.
Take into consideration also that no one in WA is allowed to shoot an IBO weight arrow for hunting. Most of the bows rated in the 330-340 range are shooting in the 290's-300's range when shooting with WA legal arrows.
I hunt with a Destroyer 340. For me it is the most accurate bow I have owned and I have owned a bunch in the last 5 yrs or so. My hunting set up is around 305fps and it tunes and shoots very easily. I keep in practice but I don't shoot every day. Sometimes I may go weeks without shooting. I can still pick this bow up and shoot very accurately with it with BH's. This bow shoots 15-20fps faster than the last couple bows I hunted with and I shoot BH's out to 70 yards much more accurately with this bow than I did with the slower bows. Maybe it is because the D340 is so easy to tune to perfection but whatever it is, it is fast, accurate and forgiving all at once. So it is possible to have those 3 attributes in a bow. :twocents:
Post by: TheHunt on May 15, 2011, 09:06:14 AM
Most people like speed for one thing... You distance judging starts to become a non issue. When I had an 80 lb X 30 inch draw I had one pin for 10 - 50 yards and my second pin was from 60 - 80 yards. That is what the haters do not like. Having two pin's for all your hunting needs is nice.
Post by: Lowedog on May 15, 2011, 09:13:47 AM
I am sure he shoots very deadly accurate with it but he comes across like only guys with his types of skills can shoot one competent enough to hunt with one.
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 15, 2011, 09:23:28 AM
Post by: vaz,,66 on May 15, 2011, 09:44:11 AM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on May 15, 2011, 09:49:37 AM
Matt shoots a bow rated at 340 IBO. http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,74046.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,74046.0.html)
I am sure he shoots very deadly accurate with it but he comes across like only guys with his types of skills can shoot one competent enough to hunt with one.
WOW... speaking of haters. That is not what Matt said. Way to take everything out of context. His comments were in regards to their original claims of 396FPS... at 355 with an IBO arrow, that puts it down there aways, now put a hunting arrow of State Minimums and the bow is shooting below 300FPS. Matt was not putting anyone or their abilities down, everyone should step up to the plate and help as many other hunters with their bows as he does and we would have more people going into the woods shooting correctly setup bows and taking ethincal shots, or I should say have the ability bto do so.
Post by: TheHunt on May 15, 2011, 11:08:51 AM
Post by: Lowedog on May 15, 2011, 11:54:28 AM
Matt shoots a bow rated at 340 IBO. http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,74046.0.html (http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,74046.0.html)
I am sure he shoots very deadly accurate with it but he comes across like only guys with his types of skills can shoot one competent enough to hunt with one.
WOW... speaking of haters. That is not what Matt said. Way to take everything out of context. His comments were in regards to their original claims of 396FPS... at 355 with an IBO arrow, that puts it down there aways, now put a hunting arrow of State Minimums and the bow is shooting below 300FPS. Matt was not putting anyone or their abilities down, everyone should step up to the plate and help as many other hunters with their bows as he does and we would have more people going into the woods shooting correctly setup bows and taking ethincal shots, or I should say have the ability bto do so.
Not being a hater just saying how it seems he is coming across in this thread.
When he said...
I am not doubting any bows speed ability. I am doubting that the majority of hunters that look at the IBO rating before any other spec can't keep a fixed blade broadhead in the kill zone at 50 yards. I am not talking about the guy that goes to tournaments every weekend and shoots a 100+ arrows a day practicing. I am talking about the average hunter. I am not putting anyone down either. I am just stating a fact.
...to me he sounds like he doesn't think the average guy can shoot a fast bow accurately enough to hunt with it. I would consider myself the average hunter and when I decide to look at a new bow I am going to look at bows that are shooting in the 330-350fps IBO with a 7" brace height. And I have complete confidence that I can shoot it well enough to hunt with it.
Lakota is appealing to the speed crowd. Good for them and I wish them luck. But I will bet that this particular bow will not take the archery world by storm. It's a tough market out there and saying that your bow can shoot 396 IBO will definately sell a couple bows. I would love to try this bow and see for myself. And if it is all that and jam too then I would be the first to tell people.
...I guess it seemed like he was saying that Lakota is claiming 396 IBO. Didn't think I took anything he posted out of context. :dunno:
Post by: Matt on May 16, 2011, 08:07:10 AM
Archery isn't easy. And trying to do it with a "speed" bow makes it all that tougher. I could care less how fast my bow is shooting as long as it's tuned and I have a rangefinder. Any bow company that advertises speed first is hyping it and banking on consumers buying it for that reason. That's good marketing even if it cannot reach those speeds. This bow was brought to the attention of everyone but that is where it has stayed. No one has seen this bow or shot it. Just a number on a chrono. Yet guys say I gotta have it, just because it's fast.
I think that it's cool that Richard is helping out a little known bow company get the name out there. I know about fighting for the underdog. I was with Bowtech from the very beginning and have heard it all. But shooting a speed bow is like driving a race car. We all can't just jump in put the pedal to the floor and drive 200 mph and expect to stay on the track. We are doing this to kill animals we owe it to them to do it the best we can. And that means practice and shoot a bow and take shots within "your" abilities.
Post by: Matt on May 16, 2011, 08:21:49 AM
And to anyone that says they can shoot one pin out to 50 yards. Yes you can but you will miss more than you should for that very reason. And by miss I mean not in the vitals. Depending on the speed there is at least an 18" difference in impact points between the distances. Now throw in the fact that you aren't putting your pin in the exact spot, you cannot be that accurate. But at least you have an uncluttered view. It can be done just not as accurate. Now if you can go and win a 3-D shoot with one stationary pin I applaud you. That is some fine shooting.
Post by: Matt on May 16, 2011, 08:25:02 AM
Post by: Lowedog on May 16, 2011, 04:37:45 PM
I don't really hang around archery shops so I haven't witnessed what you are referring to. Most archery hunters I know keep in practice through out the year.
I think GPR and Lakota took their lumps over on AT about that post with the 396. I don't think they ever claimed their bow would do that at IBO specs. If someone wants to buy the fastest thing out there then so be it. I wouldn't assume because someone says they want it that they can't shoot. Hell, they may not even want to hunt with but just want a wicked fast bow just to say they have one.
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 16, 2011, 06:33:03 PM
I shoot year round, at least once a week jan-april and sometimes up to 5-6 times a week may-aug and all though hunting season. I am not one of the 3,000 people who belong to state archery clubs so where does that classify me?
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on May 16, 2011, 06:58:35 PM
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on May 16, 2011, 07:01:21 PM
If you dont shoot all year, no way have you mastered your current set up IMO.
Post by: Lowedog on May 16, 2011, 07:38:00 PM
Post by: Matt on May 17, 2011, 07:53:38 AM
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on May 17, 2011, 08:16:13 AM
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 17, 2011, 10:18:49 AM
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on May 17, 2011, 10:26:00 AM
But I have to think that the center pivot point has to stiffen up the first part of the draw, as well keeps it firm throughout the cycle.
It dosent bother me like harsh recoil from a rifle dosent bother me. But I haven't shot many others.