Post by: nontypical176 on March 01, 2011, 09:21:03 PM
Post by: nontypical176 on March 01, 2011, 09:23:40 PM
Post by: frostman on March 01, 2011, 09:26:15 PM
Generally speaking, where are you and these elk at?
Post by: nontypical176 on March 01, 2011, 09:28:07 PM
I am kicking myself in the ars for not having some good feed out there for them right now. Anybody got a suggestion for Cowlitz county elk with severe hoof rot? Also I heard a rumor from a friend of a friend that his friend was driving around with a warden/biologist? looking for elk with hoof rot in the area. Who knows…….but man I can’t get the images out of my head. A couple times 2 or 3 elk would go haulin ass or jump around for a short spurt, some of the others would want to join in but it was just too painful. I seen a cow take a knee 3 different times. She didn’t even have a hoof on her leg, and she was still trying to play a little. One big cow, I could actually see the agony in her face. She caught me camera in hand, gave me a snort, but she didn’t spook, just kinda wandered away from the house always looking at me with so much pain in her face….I quit taking pictures and just let them feed after that.
Post by: nontypical176 on March 01, 2011, 09:41:52 PM
Post by: zackmioli on March 01, 2011, 11:30:24 PM
Post by: Bean Counter on March 02, 2011, 05:32:31 AM
Great pics. I hope a healthy, legal one comes your way and the herd does better overall.
Post by: ICEMAN on March 02, 2011, 06:06:31 AM
Post by: Killmore on March 02, 2011, 08:17:51 AM
cattle get feet like that it's more related to the diet there eating.
Post by: grundy53 on March 02, 2011, 08:27:36 AM
Having 250 head of livestock, I can tell you that it's not hoof rot. Hoof rot is the swelling of the tissue between the hoofs. When our
cattle get feet like that it's more related to the diet there eating.
It's a different kind of "hoof rot" its supposedly a selenium deficiency. Put out a selenium block and it should help. But who knows.... :dunno:
Post by: nontypical176 on March 02, 2011, 12:43:29 PM
Several locals shot elk out of the herd last season, and all but one had hoof rot, from what I've heard through friends, neighbors, the store and stuff. Its a hard bunch to hunt unless they stumble onto your property, but when they do come on to your place its pretty up close, so there are plenty of locals that know the condition of the elk.
I have 2 different salt blocks out, not sure if one has selenium or not, all but one elk completely ignored the salt licks. They did lick on a black burnt stump for a while. They left sometime last night, and I hope that when we meet again they are looking better than they do now. Gut Wrenching to watch I promise y'all.
Post by: Practical Approach on March 02, 2011, 01:03:50 PM
Post by: KimberRich on March 02, 2011, 03:37:25 PM
Post by: wsucowboy on March 02, 2011, 03:52:25 PM
Post by: THINK_N_ELK on March 02, 2011, 04:47:32 PM
Severe overgrowth and deformity of the hooves in the Cowlitz river basin Roosevelt elk population has been sporadically noted in individual animals for the last decade. However, recently the incidence of affected elk and the severity of cases has seemingly increased to involve most herds surveyed within this study area, affecting up to as many as 90% of elk in some herds. Cases of overgrown and deformed hooves similar to this have been occasionally recorded throughout the US in populations of wild deer, moose, and bighorn sheep. The cause of hoof deformity in these other herds and species has never been definitively elucidated, though several predisposing factors have been suggested. These factors include severe copper deficiency, selenium toxicosis, chronic ingestion of high carbohydrate diets, chronic ingestion of a predominantly alfalfa diet (with or without recurrent laminitis), exposure to infectious viruses such as epizootic hemorrhagic disease (EHD) or blue tongue virus (BTV), and change of behavior and habitat that include limited ambulation or ambulation on soft soils which may prevent normal hoof wear.
In our study population we found that hoof deformity affected either the fore or rear pair of limbs and did not appear to be restricted to particular age or sex classes, indicating that even severe lesions could develop rapidly enough to affect animals under one year of age. Lesions in the study animals varied markedly from extensive overgrowth and deformity of an otherwise intact hoof, to complete sloughing or breakage of abnormal hooves and hoof walls. Additionally, some hooves had extensive necrotizing and cavitating lesions of the sole or hoof wall. Focal hoof necrosis could be indicative of local infection, or weakness or abnormality in the keratin or underlying lamina that would focally devitalize the hoof or predispose more fragile foci to trauma and infection. In the majority of cases, the keratin of the hoof wall and sole was thick, well organized, and very hard, similar to hoof keratin in unaffected hooves of the same animal, or the hooves of normal elk collected from the study site. Histologically, keratin of the hoof wall and sole and the germinal epithelium of the coronet was well organized and no significant primary lesions were detected, making the likelihood of a developmental or genetic keratin disorder less likely.
In all cases soft tissue lesions, which would be most indicative of a primary infectious foot rot, were lacking or minimal. Bacterial culture of affected hooves was positive for Dichelobacter nodosus, a known cause of infectious foot rot in domestic livestock; however this environmental pathogen can be readily isolated from soil and would be an anticipated opportunistic pathogen in any foot condition. Therefore, a primary foot rot should be interpreted with some degree of caution.
Most animals had some degree of soft tissue and lamellar perivasculitis that was predominantly lymphocytic-plasmacytic. Though this lesion may be due to distal limb inflammation and chronic trauma, causes of vasculopathy are considered. Of particular interest are causes of vasculopathy that may compromise normal peripheral blood flow, induce aberrant neovascularization in the hoof or lamellae, or result in random thrombosis of these structures and consequently alter normal hoof growth and integrity. Causes of vasculopathy considered are recurrent laminitis, EHD, BTV, and ergot or fescue toxicity. Serology and PCR to determine viral exposure or current viremia in the study elk are currently pending.
Possibly our most important finding in this study is marked copper and selenium deficiency in this population of elk. Though certainly this area has been historically deprived of copper and selenium, perhaps changes in habitat, encroachment of farmed fields and livestock, emergence of new plant populations, significant dietary changes, or behavioral changes, may have favored the recent development of severe hoof lesions. Copper in particular is known to be vitally important for proper bone and keratin development. A. Flynn described in1977, populations of Alaskan moose with similar severely overgrowth of hooves. The cause of this lesion, described as “slipper foot”, was not definitively determined; however, affected moose were found to be significantly deficient in copper. Copper deficiency in domestic cattle is known to be associated with an increased incidence of foot rot, heel cracks, and sole abscesses. Whether copper deficiency alone can induce or predispose hoof deformity in the Cowlitz basin elk, or if copper deficiency is one contributor to a multi-factorial problem, remains yet to be determined.
A more extensive understanding of the habitat and the principal diet of these herds, as well as the movement within the home range, is necessary to completely understand the dynamics of nutritional deficiencies, toxicities, systemic infections, potential exposures to toxic fungi, and to determine what influence movement, soil substrate, or behavioral changes might play in the pathogenesis of these hoof lesions.
Post by: Special T on March 02, 2011, 09:10:19 PM
Post by: nontypical176 on March 02, 2011, 09:42:02 PM
I've got plenty of questions........Should I hunt this herd? Should I be gentle and let them feed or push them off my grass and what about apples? Is there feed or salt I can give them to help? Where is all the copper? Why are elk in lowlands suffering more than elk up high? What is the WDFW doing and is it working? How much does the WDFW even care....I mean we see them running pontoon boats down the river regularly to check the fish that they can't figure out, but how much time is being devoted to an obviously suffering animal? Why has the WDFW never got back to me with any info what so ever? These answers should be obvious and easily found on the WDFW site......Heck I didn't even find this last article posted.......Should have spent more of my personal time I guess.
Sorry to be ranting but I just spent 6 hours looking this herd in the face and hoof. A WDFW reprsentative with answers is harder to hunt down than a trophy bull. I tell you what. I like to corner them at sportsmen shows and such where they have booths, but they just give me the run around. And another thing...this study sites the front or rear legs, but I seen several that had one bad front and one bad rear, on opposite sides, but I'm no biologist, just a *censored* with a pair of binoculars and a herd of elk in my yard 50' away. I need a better camera.
Post by: Caseyd on March 02, 2011, 10:11:03 PM
I know it's a long drive but on March 22nd there is another round table discussion happening in Sedro Woolley. Bring your photos and put it in Anderson face
Post by: THINK_N_ELK on March 03, 2011, 08:22:54 AM
First I would go into Region 5 Headquarters and ask to speak with a Biologist that works with Elk within the region. If you are unable to get answers, then I would go to the Natural Resources Building in Olympia and, and ask to see a Senior Ungulate Biologist. Take copies of your pictures and a list of questions.
Not sure if you will hear/find the answers to the questions that you are asking.
Ranting while asking the questions won't help "You will get more with honey than vinegar".