Post by: Snapshot on March 26, 2011, 04:08:05 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 26, 2011, 04:56:08 PM
Post by: longrange7mm on March 26, 2011, 05:12:49 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 26, 2011, 05:22:01 PM
Might our state be ready for this?
:chuckle: Not here in washington 8)
:tup:
Post by: Smokepole on March 26, 2011, 05:23:27 PM
Post by: butcher98951 on March 26, 2011, 06:07:52 PM
Post by: D-Rock425 on March 26, 2011, 06:10:37 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 26, 2011, 06:42:19 PM
Post by: Snapshot on March 28, 2011, 12:38:21 PM
That is a russian poodle named Nikolai. Brother says he has a great nose and is eager to learn. In SD they can't hunt with a dog but they can use one to follow a blood trail.
Post by: BIGINNER on March 28, 2011, 12:41:16 PM
Post by: WSU on March 28, 2011, 01:05:39 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 28, 2011, 01:21:17 PM
I think it is odd that you can't use a dog to track wounded game. I can see the enforcement problems, but the law could be written so that it is enforceable. A start would be not having a gun when tracking with a dog, or something similar.I think the trouble is the obvious one: how would enforcement know you're tracking a wounded vs. an unwounded animal.
Post by: CP on March 28, 2011, 01:23:43 PM
But you can’t use it for bear hunting because bait, live or not, is illegal in WA.
Post by: Bob33 on March 28, 2011, 01:26:55 PM
In order to be cited for using a dog to hunt big game, WDFW would first have to prove that is really a dog and not a curly haired rat. I think that you would have a good case.:yike: :chuckle:
But you can’t use it for bear hunting because bait, live or not, is illegal in WA.
How about using a cat?
Post by: Rhinoron247 on March 28, 2011, 01:33:01 PM
Post by: bearpaw on March 28, 2011, 01:33:13 PM
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 01:42:08 PM
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 01:45:57 PM
"Transporting a dog(s) in a motorized vehicle or walking a dog on a leash is not pursuit."
Post by: CP on March 28, 2011, 01:46:58 PM
9. Using dogs:
• Hunting wild animals with dogs during
any deer or elk modern firearm season is
prohibited.
• Allowing a dog, owned or controlled by
you, to pursue or injure deer or elk or to
accompany you while you are hunting
deer or elk is prohibited.
• Hunting or pursuing any big game animal,
bobcat, or coyote with dogs is prohibited,
except cougar hunting as permitted by the
Fish and Wildlife Commission.
Post by: Bob33 on March 28, 2011, 01:48:30 PM
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.240 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.240)
I think having a dog and a gun is an infraction waiting to happen. Wish it weren't so, but I wouldn't risk it.
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 01:52:25 PM
Post by: WSU on March 28, 2011, 01:52:30 PM
I think it is odd that you can't use a dog to track wounded game. I can see the enforcement problems, but the law could be written so that it is enforceable. A start would be not having a gun when tracking with a dog, or something similar.I think the trouble is the obvious one: how would enforcement know you're tracking a wounded vs. an unwounded animal.
I agree that this is the obvious issue. My thinking was a law saying you can track wounded game only if unarmed would create a black and white line that would make enforcement possible. If you have a gun, you get a ticket. There will obviously still be some issues, such as folks using the dog to find game for others to shoot, but all laws have potential gray areas. As it is now, a person could walk unarmed with a dog and use it to push game for others and you would have the same grey area proof issue.
Post by: WSU on March 28, 2011, 01:54:17 PM
Page 72 does not apply if you do not have a weapon and the dog does not leave the leash, if you are walking a dog on a leash no HUNTING or PURSUING has taken place. I have this in writing from the WDFW. Now carrying a weapon would get you a citation. What do you guys think NO ONE takes their dog for a walk during Oct and Nov?
I think the issue may be walking one's dog through some impenetrable reprod while following a sparse blood trail or something similar. Pretty hard to argue that you are just taking your dog for a walk.
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 01:54:40 PM
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 01:56:12 PM
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 02:03:32 PM
As it is now, a person could walk unarmed with a dog and use it to push game for others and you would have the same grey area proof issue.
Curious how adding a dog to a drive would make it any more effective? Currently drives are legal. Just asking?
Post by: WSU on March 28, 2011, 02:12:00 PM
As it is now, a person could walk unarmed with a dog and use it to push game for others and you would have the same grey area proof issue.
Curious how adding a dog to a drive would make it any more effective? Currently drives are legal. Just asking?
I have found that many critters, especially smart ones, will just let you walk on by. Whitetails and blacktails are the two that come to mind first. A dog would smell things that we walk past....
Post by: Bob33 on March 28, 2011, 02:21:42 PM
(53) "To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, capture, or harass a wild animal or wild bird.
If a dog is doing any of that, it could be considered as hunting.
Post by: grundy53 on March 28, 2011, 02:25:53 PM
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.08.010 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.08.010)
(53) "To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, capture, or harass a wild animal or wild bird.
If a dog is doing any of that, it could be considered as hunting.
If its already dead you can't kill it injure it capture it or harass it. :dunno:
Post by: CP on March 28, 2011, 02:31:57 PM
Post by: Bob33 on March 28, 2011, 02:39:21 PM
How do you know it's dead? If you know it's dead, then you know where it is, and you don't need a dog to find it....http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.08.010 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.08.010)
(53) "To hunt" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, capture, or harass a wild animal or wild bird.
If a dog is doing any of that, it could be considered as hunting.
If its already dead you can't kill it injure it capture it or harass it. :dunno:
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 02:53:25 PM
Post by: grundy53 on March 28, 2011, 02:56:08 PM
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 28, 2011, 03:01:02 PM
(1) A person is guilty of unlawful use of dogs if the person:
(a) Negligently fails to prevent a dog under the person's control from pursuing or injuring deer, elk, or an animal classified as endangered under this title;
Negligently fails to prevent a dog under the person's control from pursuing............The way I read this is whether leashed or not it is negligence. It doesn't state dead or alive, just pursuing.
Interesting discussion. I can certainly see where Machias is coming from and as usual see that there is a bit of gray in the RCW and the use of dogs.
Like Bob33 said, not sure I would want to be standing over a freshly tagged animal with my leashed dog at my side. In this world of guilty until proven innocent, I'd have a pretty big hole to dig myself out of.
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 03:06:15 PM
Page 58:
"Transporting a dog(s) in a motorized vehicle or walking a dog on a leash is not pursuit."
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 28, 2011, 03:10:47 PM
6x6in6
Page 58:
"Transporting a dog(s) in a motorized vehicle or walking a dog on a leash is not pursuit."
Yes, I know. :)
But the "grey" I was referring to was in the "negligent to prevent a dog under a persons control" part. Under control is certainly leashed.
I guess I was a bit unclear. Sorry!
Post by: grundy53 on March 28, 2011, 03:11:58 PM
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 03:15:20 PM
:chuckle: I love it when we have these discussion. This one is fun. Thanks guys.
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 28, 2011, 03:17:23 PM
pursuing = chasing. you can't chase something that is dead.
Can you point us to the definitions section of the RCW for this?
And if you know that it is dead, you must have seen it, so why the dog?
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 28, 2011, 03:17:53 PM
Post by: grundy53 on March 28, 2011, 03:18:01 PM
You CANNOT have pursuit without them being off leash and therefore you CANNOT be charged with "pursuing" if their is no "pursuit". Cannot have one without the other. No grey, very black and white, VERY BLACK AND WHITE! ;)
:chuckle: I love it when we have these discussion. This one is fun. Thanks guys.
That explains it more clearly. :tup:
Post by: grundy53 on March 28, 2011, 03:19:38 PM
pursuing = chasing. you can't chase something that is dead.
Can you point us to the definitions section of the RCW for this?
And if you know that it is dead, you must have seen it, so why the dog?
Like I said. Most of the time you know if you hit it hard or not. If you know you hit it hard and wait a reasonable amout of time it should be dead. Key word should.
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 28, 2011, 03:21:07 PM
pursuing = chasing. you can't chase something that is dead.
Can you point us to the definitions section of the RCW for this?
And if you know that it is dead, you must have seen it, so why the dog?
Like I said. Most of the time you know if you hit it hard or not. If you know you hit it hard and wait a reasonable amout of time it should be dead. Key word should.
I was just poking at ya. Your previous said is dead. I knew what ya meant. :chuckle:
Post by: grundy53 on March 28, 2011, 03:22:40 PM
pursuing = chasing. you can't chase something that is dead.
Can you point us to the definitions section of the RCW for this?
And if you know that it is dead, you must have seen it, so why the dog?
Like I said. Most of the time you know if you hit it hard or not. If you know you hit it hard and wait a reasonable amout of time it should be dead. Key word should.
I was just poking at ya. Your previous said is dead. I knew what ya meant. :chuckle:
:chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Bob33 on March 28, 2011, 03:28:07 PM
Yes, I know this is a rather strange sight. You see, I shot a deer a few hours ago and just could not find it. I know it’s illegal to use my dog to track it, so I went home and got Yogi.
He’s really a nice bear, but if he gets hungry you don’t want to get in his way.
Now, just let me show you how he works. He’s got a nose that a bloodhound would die for…
Post by: grundy53 on March 28, 2011, 03:30:08 PM
Hi, officer. How are you today?
Yes, I know this is a rather strange sight. You see, I shot a deer a few hours ago and just could not find it. I know it’s illegal to use my dog to track it, so I went home and got Yogi.
He’s really a nice bear, but if he gets hungry you don’t want to get in his way.
Now, just let me show you how he works. He’s got a nose that a bloodhound would die for…
:chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: 6x6in6 on March 28, 2011, 03:31:17 PM
Post by: Machias on March 28, 2011, 03:32:55 PM
Post by: YoterHunter on March 28, 2011, 06:00:22 PM
Post by: huntingfool7 on March 28, 2011, 09:10:50 PM
Post by: 300rum on March 28, 2011, 09:14:31 PM
Post by: Sneaky on March 28, 2011, 09:19:03 PM
I am sure that Washington State will have no problem letting you use a dog..........As long as they can sell you another permit!:yeah:
Post by: krout81 on March 28, 2011, 10:16:43 PM
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 28, 2011, 10:47:53 PM
How about a pig? They have a sense of smell much better than a dog does. They use pigs to find truffles under the dirt and drugs at the border.In order to be cited for using a dog to hunt big game, WDFW would first have to prove that is really a dog and not a curly haired rat. I think that you would have a good case.:yike: :chuckle:
But you can’t use it for bear hunting because bait, live or not, is illegal in WA.
How about using a cat?
Post by: BIGINNER on March 29, 2011, 07:46:20 AM
How about a pig? They have a sense of smell much better than a dog does. They use pigs to find truffles under the dirt and drugs at the border.In order to be cited for using a dog to hunt big game, WDFW would first have to prove that is really a dog and not a curly haired rat. I think that you would have a good case.:yike: :chuckle:
But you can’t use it for bear hunting because bait, live or not, is illegal in WA.
How about using a cat?
those are police officers :chuckle: :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Snapshot on April 02, 2011, 12:28:55 PM
Don't get me wrong about poodles. If my own brother didn't have one I'd be all over them as sleeve-dogs, foo-foo dogs, etc. But blood is thicker than water.