Post by: grundy53 on March 31, 2011, 01:57:42 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on March 31, 2011, 02:07:38 PM
Post by: Machias on March 31, 2011, 02:10:00 PM
Post by: 1bugman on March 31, 2011, 02:13:16 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on March 31, 2011, 02:13:40 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on March 31, 2011, 02:30:16 PM
Post by: GoldTip on March 31, 2011, 02:35:53 PM
Post by: grundy53 on March 31, 2011, 02:41:31 PM
Well if you talk to opponents they would say that the bow harvest would jump incredibly and that we are losing the heritage of bowhunting. In reality there is no logical reason that they shouldn't be allowed.
I understand this isn't your point of view but using that logic. If you were to hit a deer in the exact same spot with a Regular broadhead and a mechanical broad head and the deer hit with the mechanical dies where as the one hit with the regular broad head is just wounded. Wouldn't that make an argument that the mechanical is more ethical? Also I bet if you were to aim an arrow tipped with one or the other it's going to hit the target probably about the same amount of times therefore if one is more effective a killing as apposed to wounding then you would think it would be more ethical. :dunno: then again like I said, I'm new to this and don't know what I'm talking about. :dunno:
Post by: grundy53 on March 31, 2011, 02:42:21 PM
They do not penetrate nearly as well as a fixed blade head (front or rear deploying) and by being mechanical that fact in an of itself makes them more prone to failure, although I will agree they have gotten very good. Also, they offer absolutely no advantage to a fixed blade broadhead from a even fairly well tuned bow.
That makes sense.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on March 31, 2011, 02:42:41 PM
They do not penetrate nearly as well as a fixed blade head (front or rear deploying) and by being mechanical that fact in an of itself makes them more prone to failure, although I will agree they have gotten very good. Also, they offer absolutely no advantage to a fixed blade broadhead from a even fairly well tuned bow.
:yeah:
I can't deny any of that. However, I have killed a lot of animls with mechanicals over the years and never had one fail. I believe the failure rate would probably be less than the numebr of guys that are shooting Fixedblade broadheads with poorly tuned bows (which I see all the time). Not that mechanical broadheads alleviate a guy from having to tune his bow....just the opposite...its infinitely more important.
I personally prefer fixed blade cut-on-contact broadheads and see no reason to change but I am certainly not against mechanicals.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on March 31, 2011, 02:50:30 PM
Well if you talk to opponents they would say that the bow harvest would jump incredibly and that we are losing the heritage of bowhunting. In reality there is no logical reason that they shouldn't be allowed.
I understand this isn't your point of view but using that logic. If you were to hit a deer in the exact same spot with a Regular broadhead and a mechanical broad head and the deer hit with the mechanical dies where as the one hit with the regular broad head is just wounded. Wouldn't that make an argument that the mechanical is more ethical? Also I bet if you were to aim an arrow tipped with one or the other it's going to hit the target probably about the same amount of times therefore if one is more effective a killing as apposed to wounding then you would think it would be more ethical. :dunno: then again like I said, I'm new to this and don't know what I'm talking about. :dunno:
I personally haven't seen a difference in effectiveness in dispatching an animal. However, I believe a cut-on-contact, fixed blade broad head is without a doubt more effective. LIke GoldTip said you aren't going to get the same penetration with a mechanical (however I believe penetration is sufficient in all but less than ideal situations (and in those situation the extra penetration given by a cut-on-contact/fixed will probably make a difference in only few instances). On the same token the Chisel tip broadheads just aren't going to get the the penetration that a cut-on-contact will. In addition to all of this I by far prefer cut-on-contact for quartering away shots.[/quote]
Post by: Gringo31 on March 31, 2011, 02:55:22 PM
Post by: Skillet on March 31, 2011, 02:58:57 PM
Just noticed Gringo said the same thing I did. He's pretty smart! :chuckle:
Post by: JimmyHoffa on March 31, 2011, 03:06:23 PM
They do not penetrate nearly as well as a fixed blade head (front or rear deploying) and by being mechanical that fact in an of itself makes them more prone to failure, although I will agree they have gotten very good. Also, they offer absolutely no advantage to a fixed blade broadhead from a even fairly well tuned bow.
Most of the mechanical broadheads I've encountered had a significantly larger cutting width (upon and assuming full opening) than the fixed ones. So based on the physics of it, I wouldn't expect it to penetrate as deeply. If a fixed broadhead makes a pass through on an animal and only has a width of 1" vs a mechanical broadhead that barely makes it across the vitals with a 2" width, then I'm not sure the penetration mattered as much because one has the chance to cut (and be slowed down by) more stuff in there.
I think I would agree that the main reason they aren't allowed is as a previous poster said it is more deviation from the traditional aspect.
Post by: Machias on March 31, 2011, 03:12:26 PM
I believe the failure rate would probably be less than the numebr of guys that are shooting Fixedblade broadheads with poorly tuned bows (which I see all the time). I personally prefer fixed blade cut-on-contact broadheads and see no reason to change but I am certainly not against mechanicals.
Great answer!
I also believe there is some questions regarding their effectiveness on elk.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on March 31, 2011, 03:20:35 PM
Post by: halflife65 on March 31, 2011, 03:26:57 PM
Given, these were deer and not elk and both shots were right on the money but I was impressed with the mechanical. The hole it opened up was astounding. I have no problem with them.
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on March 31, 2011, 03:31:13 PM
Post by: Machias on March 31, 2011, 03:43:13 PM
Post by: NWWABOWHNTR on March 31, 2011, 03:47:57 PM
Wow this is cool a thoughtful and civilized discussion on a controversial subject! :IBCOOL:
Thats because he didn't say he wanted to use luminoks, with his laser aimed mechanical BH in a trad only GMU.... ;)
Post by: 1bugman on March 31, 2011, 03:49:47 PM
Wow this is cool a thoughtful and civilized discussion on a controversial subject! :IBCOOL:Oh, give it time. some one will get home from work have a drink, read this and then it's on. :party1: :peep:
Post by: Button Nubbs on March 31, 2011, 04:26:01 PM
Post by: turkeyfeather on March 31, 2011, 04:44:03 PM
Post by: hughjorgan on March 31, 2011, 04:48:40 PM
a broadhead blade unless the broadhead
is unbarbed and completely closed at
the back end of the blade or blades by
a smooth, unbroken surface starting at
maximum blade width and forming a
smooth line toward the feather end of the
shaft and such line does not angle toward
the point.
The argument that makes most sense to me is that mechanical broadheads are barbed, so if you make a bad shot that arrow is going to remain stuck in there where a broadhead with a closed back end can be worked out.
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on March 31, 2011, 06:01:42 PM
Imo 2 holes are beşter than 1 :yike: I'd rather not risk it. In a perfect world we would all make perfect shots. This is not a perfect world and I would hate to put a mechanical into any animals shoulder and see most of my arrow hanging out of the animal. I hope for the best bt prepare for the worst
If you hit a "shoulder" and lose the deer you most likely hit the humerus. If you hit the humerus fairly solid you are likely going to be in bad shape no matter which broadhead you have. However, if you hit the scapula(shoulder blade) broadsided you should get good penetration with mechanical or fixed. Of course the mechanical will require more kinetic energy to equal the penetration of a fixed cut on contact broadhead. I think most full penetration shoulder shots that people refer to are actually scapula shots. The scapula really isn't that thick towards the top.
Post by: Button Nubbs on March 31, 2011, 06:54:20 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on March 31, 2011, 06:58:11 PM
Post by: 7mag. on March 31, 2011, 08:22:42 PM
Post by: Machias on March 31, 2011, 09:08:43 PM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on March 31, 2011, 09:33:21 PM
Post by: Elkslayer on March 31, 2011, 09:37:34 PM
It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with
a broadhead blade unless the broadhead
is unbarbed and completely closed at
the back end of the blade or blades by
a smooth, unbroken surface starting at
maximum blade width and forming a
smooth line toward the feather end of the
shaft and such line does not angle toward
the point.
The argument that makes most sense to me is that mechanical broadheads are barbed, so if you make a bad shot that arrow is going to remain stuck in there where a broadhead with a closed back end can be worked out.
This was the reason I got as well when I talked to a Game Warden.
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on March 31, 2011, 10:12:36 PM
That was my understanding also.It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with
a broadhead blade unless the broadhead
is unbarbed and completely closed at
the back end of the blade or blades by
a smooth, unbroken surface starting at
maximum blade width and forming a
smooth line toward the feather end of the
shaft and such line does not angle toward
the point.
The argument that makes most sense to me is that mechanical broadheads are barbed, so if you make a bad shot that arrow is going to remain stuck in there where a broadhead with a closed back end can be worked out.
This was the reason I got as well when I talked to a Game Warden.
Everyone can argue about all the rest of this stuff, but AT THE TIME THE RULE WAS WRITTEN, ,..... :beatdeadhorse:
Archery Tackle is constantly changing, and the rules will too, after they allow mechanicals, then everyone will complain about not being able to use "pods"
Post by: Button Nubbs on March 31, 2011, 11:51:33 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 01, 2011, 07:45:58 AM
Post by: DBHAWTHORNE on April 01, 2011, 07:58:24 AM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on April 01, 2011, 09:21:39 AM
Heat seaking arrows with pods...thats the way to goDon't forget the lasers in the BH, and gps chip, !!
Post by: kibber on April 02, 2011, 09:48:01 AM
Post by: halflife65 on April 02, 2011, 09:58:19 AM