Post by: Tony 270WSM on May 23, 2008, 09:47:08 PM
The obvious: McM Classic is more than twice the cost and is fiberglass.
BaC Medalist han an aluminum bedding block and is made out of I don't know what...
Pros cons of either? Would be for a 700 WSM with floorplate.
Post by: littletoes on May 24, 2008, 07:05:12 AM
In the McMillan, the barrel channels are straight, the inletting is Perfect, and your action will fit snug. B & C is closer to HS Precision (although I think those boys would be insulted at THAT comment), than it is to a McMillan.
Post by: BC CHASER on May 24, 2008, 07:36:53 AM
Post by: 700xcr on May 24, 2008, 10:50:01 PM
Post by: actionshooter on May 25, 2008, 09:27:42 AM
Sure.....
In the McMillan, the barrel channels are straight, the inletting is Perfect, and your action will fit snug. B & C is closer to HS Precision (although I think those boys would be insulted at THAT comment), than it is to a McMillan.
I don't think an HS is anywhere near a B&C. HS builds very high quality. Nothing wrong with B&C if your just switching from wood to synthetic but if you want to build a sub-moa rifle go with HS, Mcmillian, Rimrock :twocents:
Post by: littletoes on May 25, 2008, 10:22:04 AM
Barrel channel "gaps" on two of my HS "vary" down the length of the barrel, bedding isn't perfect with the one-piece bedding block, and need "cleaning up" with a skim bed.
Can't find ANY of these issues with a McMillan.....sorry.
Post by: actionshooter on May 25, 2008, 11:53:44 AM
I own both HSP and MCM, both are very good, but the HS is a bit "less" than the MCM.
Barrel channel "gaps" on two of my HS "vary" down the length of the barrel, bedding isn't perfect with the one-piece bedding block, and need "cleaning up" with a skim bed.
Can't find ANY of these issues with a McMillan.....sorry.
Why be sorry?
I wasn't comparing Mcmillian and HS, I am comparing B&C to the other 2. I would put B&C a step ahead of Ramline and the other 2 are way ahead.
My best rifle has a Mcmillian but I also have an HS on a varminter and don't have the problems you have posted :dunno:
Post by: 700xcr on May 25, 2008, 01:22:47 PM
I own both HSP and MCM, both are very good, but the HS is a bit "less" than the MCM.I am not familiar with bedding. What do you mean by skim bedding? Are you using glass to bed action to aluminium bedding block?
Barrel channel "gaps" on two of my HS "vary" down the length of the barrel, bedding isn't perfect with the one-piece bedding block, and need "cleaning up" with a skim bed.
Can't find ANY of these issues with a McMillan.....sorry.
Post by: littletoes on May 25, 2008, 03:16:05 PM
You see, the problem is, that one bedding block is made to fit ALL of the actions out there (same models that is! Such as the Remington 700), but even though they are the same from the factory, they still have differances, and the bedding compensates for this.
I'd have to agree with you on the others. HS isn't very far behind McMillan, won't argue with you on that! ;)
Post by: 700xcr on May 25, 2008, 09:19:01 PM
Devcon, titanium, stainless steel, aluminum, you can pick what you want to use, and "skim" bed it ( a very thin amount) to ensure 100% contact between the action and the stock, yes even with an aluminum bedding block.Thank you for the information.
You see, the problem is, that one bedding block is made to fit ALL of the actions out there (same models that is! Such as the Remington 700), but even though they are the same from the factory, they still have differances, and the bedding compensates for this.
I'd have to agree with you on the others. HS isn't very far behind McMillan, won't argue with you on that! ;)
Post by: FOsteology on May 28, 2008, 06:49:13 PM
IMHO and IME aluminum bedding blocks are a complete joke. They serve no real useful purpose other than to mask the inferior fill used that would not otherwise hold up to recoil.
Medalist shells are too thin and flimsy, their fill is prone to make the fore end wander when it gets hot.
McMillan is FAR AND AWAY the leader in the custom stock game. From raw materials quality, to finished-product quality, to available options, to inlet quality, to warranty, to retained value, McMillan is simply the best.
Post by: Intruder on May 29, 2008, 08:28:29 AM
Post by: 700xcr on June 07, 2008, 03:07:00 PM
Post by: Jamieb on June 08, 2008, 11:05:29 PM
Post by: Tony 270WSM on September 21, 2008, 08:18:29 PM
Seems incredibly expensive, for just a stock, if you get the McM, pillar and glass bedded. Is that $700 really going to shrink groups?
Post by: FOsteology on September 21, 2008, 08:41:46 PM
There are other compelling reasons to go with a McMillan as I have previously outlined.
Post by: Tony 270WSM on September 21, 2008, 09:14:32 PM
Post by: FOsteology on September 21, 2008, 09:28:02 PM
What do the pillars really add that you don't otherwise get from the McM? Did you have them do it, or someone else?
Pillars prevent the guard screws from compressing or crushing the stock in the action area.
McMillans are solid fiberglass in the action area. So technically, there is no need to install pillars. However, the EDGE require pillars as they're comprised of 100% graphite plus high tech resins. McMillan supplies the EDGE standard with pillars for this very reason.
If one is going to shell out the dough on a McMillan (because you want the best out there), spending an additional $25 to have pillars installed is great peace of mind, and totally eliminates any possibility of compression, as well as allowing you to get the same "fit" every time you take the barreled action out of the stock.
Most of my McMillan's are EDGE. The others I had McMillan add the pillars to my stock order.
Post by: Tony 270WSM on September 21, 2008, 09:31:19 PM
Post by: demontang on September 22, 2008, 07:57:22 PM
Post by: FOsteology on September 22, 2008, 09:18:51 PM
Weight, construction, fit and feel(both for shooter and barreled action), handling, balance, and improved felt recoil absorption just to name a few.
One needs to look at and consider the BIG picture when contemplating restocking...
Post by: Tony 270WSM on September 23, 2008, 09:42:27 AM
Post by: FOsteology on September 23, 2008, 10:18:34 AM
The Rem Ti stocks are OK for most purposes. Definitely a step up from the typical tupperware stocks. Although nice and light, they're not the same strength-wise as glass sheets forming the skin like McMillan, Borden, Bansner, Brown, etc.
Post by: JoshT on September 23, 2008, 03:52:33 PM
Post by: FOsteology on September 23, 2008, 04:26:56 PM
You have very different materials comprising them. The aluminum bedding block, and the fiber glass shell with a foam core. Put them together and cook them to finish the stock and 7 out of 10 will warp when you torque the action into the stock.
HS ergonomics are horrific, and tend to amplify recoil. The aluminum bedding blocks are just an un-needed added expense and a complete joke. They serve no real useful purpose other than to mask the inferior fill used that would not otherwise hold up to recoil. Good synthetic stocks do not need them.
HS stocks are routinely heavier than they need to be (I think that HS knows that their stocks suck at controlling recoil, so add weight to mitigate). Did I mention the ergo's suck?
Inletting is hit or miss and the stocks typically requires more work than it's worth to get bedded properly.
Ever notice how second-hand HS stocks get about 40-50% on resale, and second-hand McMillan get about 85-90% ??
There's a reason for that.
Now, having said that, the HS work's well for a heavy tactical rifle. The US Army has had good luck with them for years. But for a standard hunting rifle, I'd look elsewhere. :twocents:
Post by: JoshT on September 24, 2008, 02:47:32 PM
Post by: FOsteology on September 24, 2008, 04:47:47 PM
Whatever...
Compelling rebuttal... ;)
Post by: Bofire on September 24, 2008, 08:04:12 PM
Its like so totally 'whatever'.
The reasons there are advances in products is we all dont like the same things. There are ZERO products that are ALL good, all pleasing, all useful.
William knows a ton about rifles and has had many customs, we dont like the same things in rifles, but that does not mean either of us is 'wrong'. I think HS makes some good products as does McMillan.
I once knew a guy that drove a Pinto Wagon 350,00 miles with no problems, go figger??
Carl
Post by: high country on September 25, 2008, 05:36:18 AM
the mc millan is best on the fit/finish. I like the palm swell and sharp chekering.................but, if you are gonna drop that kind of $$ you are gonna bed it anyway. and mine does not scratch, it chips.
the hs offers good fit/finish for the $$ and for most guys that shoot only during hunting season they will be plenty happy with it. seems pertty tough as I am a hunter and treat my gus as tools, be they 500 or 5000 bucks.
my b&c is a model no longer available. it has the sling mounts built into the stock. I absolutely had to bed it and it did get pillars (all stacks should have them in my opinion) it required slightly more work than the others, is not as stiff it is lighter and like the hs, is a wee bit chubby.
now ont the ti stocks......I like them...alot. good strength to weight, good price. the grip is a bit straighter then the others, but I think it points fast like a good shotgun. it is far and away my most carried rifle............but remember, everyone has their favorite. just build your own and who cares what anyone else thinks.
bottom line. each of them has a different feel, the quality does vary, but all should be worked anyhow.
Post by: JoshT on September 25, 2008, 08:09:40 AM
Whatever...
Compelling rebuttal... ;)
Horse to water... no need to argue. McM guys never listen... so I'll just keep killing stuff with my sup-par stocks. I guess my rifles shooting better in the HS stocks (than the 'profesionally fitted' McMillans)... holds no water in this argument.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on September 25, 2008, 08:34:40 AM
McMillan are nice, are they the only stock made? Methinks not....
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 25, 2008, 08:38:36 AM
Post by: JoshT on September 25, 2008, 09:07:58 AM
painstaking injection
"Switch Hitter"
excels in both a conventional mounting or as a thumb hole.
aerated butt section
"Butt Porthole".
Dude... they call that Freudian.
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 25, 2008, 09:09:32 AM
Id post some pics but I feel totally out classed by your work FOS :dunno:
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 25, 2008, 09:20:17 AM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on September 25, 2008, 09:36:02 AM
Post by: JoshT on September 25, 2008, 09:59:57 AM
painstaking injection
"Switch Hitter"
excels in both a conventional mounting or as a thumb hole.
aerated butt section
"Butt Porthole".
Dude... they call that Freudian.
Didn't mean to horn you up,my bad.....
You said it... not me.
I remember an article way back in Rifle Mag. that Dave Scovill wrote... he did a similar thing to a Ruger 77... though all his drilling was on the metal... it was a 7x57 I believe.
To each their own on the stocks... but I'm sure the "FOs Butt Porthole" stock will be taking the custom world by storm very shortly.
Post by: JoshT on September 25, 2008, 12:26:42 PM
You're the phuckin' monkey from Texas running around on a WA hunting board... trying to type like 'stick and Steelhead. I state my experience with McMs and HS stocks... and because my experience is contrary to you own, and I kindly pointed out all your Freudian homosexual tendancies... I'm the troll?
I guess I'm the idiot for paying half as much money for a stock that's superior in performance.
proceed...
Post by: JoshT on September 25, 2008, 01:08:54 PM
And if you look at sales #s... I'm sure the HS has McM smoked. Saying I'm in the overwhelming minority by prefering the HS... is like saying those who prefer Leupold products... are in the minority to those who prefer S&B. It may be true in some isolated circles... but that does not make it the majority. Even though the product may be superior on paper... that doesn't make it superior in the field.
I drank the McM kool-aid... more than once. I was disapointed... more than once. HS has never let me down... they may not have as many options... and there ergos are very basic... but they're proved solid in the field and accurate at the bench. I can buy one down the street, for half the money. No waiting 6 months... no disapointment in looks... no need for a bunch of bedding work. While you're waiting for your stock... my rifle is racking up kills.
I'm done with this... to each their own on the stocks. I made the Fruedian coments in jest... The campfire style of championing the McM stocks (6x Leupys and Talleys)... and bashing all others gets old... I take a little offence to it, mostly because I got suckered into believing some of it.
FOs... Glad to know you do hunt here... I do normally enjoy your posts.
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on September 25, 2008, 01:10:36 PM
Post by: JoshT on September 25, 2008, 01:22:58 PM
Ram-Line Rocks!! Laffin....
There's one in my garage... came off a rifle we called Ramstien... if you want it... you can have it!
Post by: FOsteology on September 25, 2008, 01:59:23 PM
Ram-Line Rocks!! Laffin....
You've GOT to be kidding..... :chuckle:
Post by: Tony 270WSM on September 25, 2008, 09:05:18 PM
Post by: jackelope on September 25, 2008, 10:27:00 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on September 26, 2008, 07:58:48 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on September 26, 2008, 08:03:14 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on September 26, 2008, 08:05:16 PM
Post by: WDFW-SUX on September 26, 2008, 08:10:19 PM
:chuckle:
Post by: Bobm on September 30, 2008, 08:16:06 PM
Your making a complete fool of yourself not to mention plagiarizing Big Stick.
That post you posted with the pictures of the stock and then all your mannerisms
are completely phony and not originally from you. Why are you cut and pasting other people's post from years ago, (the fire) and passing them off as your own?
Then your trying to sound like stick to try and impress us, are you that insecure?
btw, this is Stickese that Fostoyboy here is trying to sound like.
Quote
Didn't mean to horn you up,my bad.....
PLEASE do us a favor and go back to Texass.
to plagiarize is "to steal and pass off ...
Post by: Bobm on October 02, 2008, 07:58:07 AM
Plagiarism is the unauthorized use or close imitation of the language and thoughts of another author and the representation of them as one's own original ...
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on October 02, 2008, 11:08:30 AM
Post by: FOsteology on October 02, 2008, 11:46:03 AM
Bobm,
You're right. :bdid: on my part. I'm man enough to admit that I did not post a disclaimer regarding the "tongue in cheek" classified ad on "custom stocks" 'Stick posted long ago. I know better, and have no excuse other than I found it humorous and germane to the discussion at hand.
Yes, I live in Texas. And this is a problem/issue how?
Post by: Bobm on October 02, 2008, 06:48:35 PM
Post by: 257 Wby Mag on October 02, 2008, 08:38:37 PM
Post by: Huntbear on October 05, 2008, 11:20:03 AM
I had a bell and carlson on my 300 for about 4 years. I decided to take the stock off for a through cleaning and found large cracks in my for end and between my trigger guard and floor plate. I contacted them and they would not give me the time of day. I had Doc from MPI stocks build me a stock last year and I love it. They are spendy but well worth it. Every thing is built to your measurements. And he is located in portland so hes not that far away.
I will vote for MPI, Doc is fantastic to work with, and does great work, if you want him to finish the stock. All my synthetic stocks that I have put on a gun are MPI.