Post by: Recurve-Elk on April 11, 2011, 07:46:24 PM
Post by: 270Shooter on April 11, 2011, 07:50:32 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 11, 2011, 07:51:58 PM
Post by: Recurve-Elk on April 11, 2011, 07:54:19 PM
Post by: Heredoggydoggy on April 11, 2011, 07:57:23 PM
Post by: bhylton on April 11, 2011, 09:39:52 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on April 11, 2011, 09:58:28 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 11, 2011, 10:08:01 PM
in WA you can shoot them with an air rifle if you want. and with air rifles these days im sure you could kill one. my pops has killed probibly a dozen with an old marlin 22lr.Air rifles are not legal for hunting. Sorry.
Post by: carpsniperg2 on April 11, 2011, 10:39:17 PM
Post by: Kain on April 12, 2011, 01:24:54 PM
in WA you can shoot them with an air rifle if you want. and with air rifles these days im sure you could kill one. my pops has killed probibly a dozen with an old marlin 22lr.Air rifles are not legal for hunting. Sorry.
Are you sure about that? The reason I ask is that in the regs it states:
Quote
Hunt game birds or game animals with
anything other than a firearm, a bow and
arrow, or by falconry. Bullfrogs may only
be taken by angling, hand dip netting,
gigging, and bow and arrow.
But if you look up what animals are considered "game" animals, coyote is not on the list.
http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-007 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-007)
Quote
(1) Game animals include:
eastern cottontail
Nuttall's cottontail
snowshoe hare
white-tailed jackrabbit
black-tailed jackrabbit
fox
black bear
raccoon
cougar
bobcat
Roosevelt and Rocky Mountain elk
mule deer and black-tailed deer
white-tailed deer
moose
pronghorn
mountain goat
California and Rocky Mountain bighorn sheep
bullfrog
(2) Furbearing animals are game animals and include:
beaver
muskrat
fox
raccoon
marten
short-tailed weasel or ermine
long-tailed weasel
mink
badger
river otter
bobcat
I have not seen anywhere else where is states that air rifles are illegal for hunting non game animals. Like Eastern gray squirrels, starlings, house sparrows, coyote, skunk, opossums, nutria, porcupines, mountain beavers and and all other unclassified wildlife and invasive species.
Post by: Bob33 on April 12, 2011, 07:11:47 PM
(23) "Game animals" means wild animals that shall not be hunted except as authorized by the commission.
Coyotes may not be hunted without a license, therefore they are considered game animals.
I believe you are correct about the other non-game species such as sparrows, although some of them (such as beavers) cannot be hunted at all.
Post by: Kain on April 12, 2011, 10:05:11 PM
Kain, reference RCW 77.08.010: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.08.010 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=77.08.010)
(23) "Game animals" means wild animals that shall not be hunted except as authorized by the commission.
Coyotes may not be hunted without a license, therefore they are considered game animals.
I believe you are correct about the other non-game species such as sparrows, although some of them (such as beavers) cannot be hunted at all.
Beavers are on the list of "fur bearers". There are many classifications of animals and birds like sea birds and threatened or protected animals but there are a group that are considered "unclassified". This would include the ones I mentioned above and also animals like moles, rats, some ground squirrels and others.
Post by: Bob33 on April 12, 2011, 10:16:15 PM
Be my guest and shoot coyotes with an air rifle.
Post by: Kain on April 12, 2011, 10:32:23 PM
Kain, it sounds like you've made up your mind.
Be my guest and shoot coyotes with an air rifle.
What are you talking about? All I did was ask a question and provide why I was asking it. I didnt say you were wrong or tell anyone that it was OK to hunt them with an air rifle. When you said that some animals cant be hunted "like beaver" I simply let you know they are under a different classification. Fur bearers are under the game animals classification section that I provided above.
If you go to the the WDFW site under living with wildlife. It states:
Quote
Legal Status
The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife does not classify coyotes as game animals, but a state license is required to hunt or trap them (RCW 77.32.010). The owner, the owner's immediate family, employee, or a tenant of real property may kill or trap a coyote on that property if it is damaging crops or domestic animals (RCW 77.36.030). A license is not required in such cases. Check with your county and/or local jurisdiction for local restrictions. Except for bona fide public or private zoological parks, persons and entities are prohibited from importing a coyote into Washington State without a permit from the Department of Agriculture and written permission from the Department of Health. Persons and entities are also prohibited from acquiring, selling, bartering, exchanging, giving, purchasing, or trapping a coyote for a pet or export (WAC 246-100-191).
And they are not on the list of "game" animals listed under http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-007 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-007) So at the very least there is a conflicting set of rules. I have not made up my mind on anything and was just trying to clear it up for myself and others.
Post by: Special T on April 16, 2011, 10:13:09 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 16, 2011, 10:20:30 PM
Post by: Recurve-Elk on April 16, 2011, 10:42:34 PM
You can hunt elk with a 25 ACP; I don't see why you can't hunt coyotes with an air gun.
Now that's a thought. How many rounds do you think it would take to bring down a bull elk? I think 1 could do the job :bdid:
Post by: duckaholic on April 16, 2011, 11:03:38 PM
i have one for sale in the classifieds if your interested in getting one
Post by: ivarhusa on April 17, 2011, 12:47:16 PM
You can hunt elk with a 25 ACP; I don't see why you can't hunt coyotes with an air gun.
About the only thing a 25 ACP is good for is cleaning out your ears, in my opinion. :chuckle:
Post by: CamoKevin on April 19, 2011, 01:06:26 PM
in WA you can shoot them with an air rifle if you want. and with air rifles these days im sure you could kill one. my pops has killed probibly a dozen with an old marlin 22lr.
I would, there's "over the counter" air rifles that pack over 230 ft/lbs compared to 130 ft/lbs of a 22LR, not that's the only thing to compare. I know Gamo had an ad running for the .177 spring piston rifle showing them hunting a little piggy. Popped it between the eyes and dropped it right there.
I only use my air rifle for taking out stuff on the parents 10 acres.
Post by: Gutpile on April 19, 2011, 07:04:58 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 19, 2011, 07:08:30 PM
Post by: Gutpile on April 19, 2011, 07:10:36 PM
I'm with you though I do love the states handgun laws. .25 acp + 4" barrel = Bear Down. :chuckle:
Post by: bobcat on April 19, 2011, 07:16:25 PM
Post by: bobcat on April 19, 2011, 07:17:22 PM
Quote
After a successful trip to the range, Eric and I took to the field. About 4:30pm a decent buck came into view. I was able to make a good shot on the deer at 91 (range finder) yards. It went about 20 steps and went down. I used a 200gr. muzzle-loading (pure lead) bullet that was found in the opposite shoulder, just under the hide. I'm very happy with the gun and the bullet penetration. I used a Quackenbush long action Outlaw. A 500fpe .458 caliber hunting rifle. It's got beautiful a beautiful Missouri Black Walnut stock and the workmanship is outstanding. Made right here in Missouri by Dennis Quackenbush, Urbana, MO. I'm going to order one with a left-handed action & stock.
Post by: Gutpile on April 19, 2011, 07:19:30 PM
Post by: Bob33 on April 19, 2011, 07:47:30 PM
To All,
Over the past few months, I have been asked by several different Hunter Education Instructors about whether or not it is legal to use “Pellet Guns” for hunting? The reason that I am sending this to the field, is that again, I have had several of these instructors say that they have had a “mixed bag” of responses from our officers (Yes, No & Maybe) during the classes when this question has come up. So, I want to make sure that everyone has the right answer and gives a standard uniform response when they are at a Hunter Education class (or are asked in the field).
The answer is; “No” pellet guns are not legal to hunt with and this comes from two sources;
WAC 232-12-047
Unlawful methods for hunting.
(1) It is unlawful to hunt any big game with:
(a) A fully automatic firearm.
(b) A centerfire cartridge less than 22 caliber for cougar.
(c) A centerfire cartridge less than 24 caliber for any other big game.
(d) A shotgun, provided that a 20 gauge, or larger shotgun, using shells loaded with slugs or buckshot size #1 or larger, may be used to hunt deer, bear, and cougar.
(e) A shotgun for any other big game, except that a 12 gauge or 10 gauge shotgun using slugs may be used.
(f) A handgun during a modern firearm season that does not meet the following criteria: Have a minimum barrel length of four inches, per manufacturer's specification, and fire a centerfire cartridge.
(g) Any rimfire cartridge.
(2) It is unlawful to hunt game birds with a shotgun capable of holding more than three shells.
(3) It is unlawful to hunt game birds or game animals, except bullfrogs, in a manner other than with a firearm, a bow and arrow, or by falconry, except in those designated areas where crossbows are allowed.
(4) Rules pertaining to crossbows:
(a) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with a crossbow with a draw weight less than 125 pounds, a limb width less than 24 inches, a draw length less than 14 inches, and a trigger safety that does not work properly.
(b) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with any arrow or bolt measuring less than 16 inches in length and weighing less than 350 grains.
(c) It is unlawful to hunt game animals or game birds with a crossbow that weighs more than 15 pounds.
(d) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with any arrow or bolt that does not have a sharp broadhead and the broadhead blade or blades are less than seven-eighths inch wide.
(e) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with a broadhead blade unless the broadhead is unbarbed and completely closed at the back end of the blade or blades by a smooth, unbroken surface starting at maximum blade width and forming a smooth line toward the feather end of the shaft, and such line does not angle toward the point.
(f) It is unlawful to hunt big game animals with a retractable broadhead.
(5) Hunters with disabilities may use a crossbow with a special use permit as conditioned in WAC 232-12-054.
(6) It is unlawful to hunt game animals or game birds with a shotgun larger than 10 gauge.
(7) It is unlawful to hunt game birds with a rifle or handgun, with the exception of blue grouse, spruce grouse and ruffed grouse.
(8) A violation of this section is punishable under RCW 77.15.400, 77.15.410, or 77.15.430, depending on the species hunted.
And;
RCW 9.41.10 defines a firearm:
(7) "Firearm" means a weapon or device from which a projectile or projectiles may be fired by an explosive such as gunpowder.
A pellet gun does not utilize an “explosive” to fire the projectile, it is fired by compressed air so it is not a firearm.
Thanks & Be Safe,
Sgt. Eric Anderson
WDFW Enforcement
Olympia, WA
Post by: bobcat on April 19, 2011, 08:04:50 PM
Post by: Kain on April 19, 2011, 09:00:47 PM
Since no one seems to believe it, here is the letter that was sent to WDFW enforcement officers in July 2010. Hunt with them if you wish....
It is not that no one believes it, and I have not seen anyone say that it is legal. I still think there is a problem with the wording of "big game" "game bird" "game animal". You pointed out the WAC that considers all animals, that require a license, "game" animals. I pointed out two sources that say specifically that coyotes are not game animals. The blanket statement that they are illegal to hunt with has some problems depending on the animal and situation. If some animals are causing property damage or depredation, no license is required, and if they are not on the list of "game" animals I still dont see where anything says you can not use a pellet gun. Very limited use and maybe its an unintended loophole but I think its there. Im not trying to start any disagreements I was just pointing out some flaws in the different rules just for the sake of discussion.
We should talk about petitioning the dept. to make pellet rifles, that meet certain requirements, legal for some small game and unclassified wildlife.
Post by: Bob33 on April 19, 2011, 09:08:51 PM
I have no problem believing that the WDFW has a dumb law like that on the books. Why can't they revise it so that air rifles ARE legal? Like I said before, they changed the law so that basically any centerfire handgun cartridge is legal for big game. Why shouldn't air rifles be legal at least for grouse, rabbits, coyotes, etc?I completely agree with you. All I'm saying is that enforcement officers have been told it's illegal....
Post by: Bob33 on April 19, 2011, 09:11:46 PM
I still dont see where anything says you can not use a pellet gun.You're right. It does not explicitly say you cannot use air rifles. It also does not say you can't use spears, hand grenades, or lots of other implements that could kill an animal. The law does state what you can legally use, and air rifles are not included.
Post by: Kain on April 19, 2011, 09:21:22 PM
I still dont see where anything says you can not use a pellet gun.You're right. It does not explicitly say you cannot use air rifles. It also does not say you can't use spears, hand grenades, or lots of other implements that could kill an animal. The law does state what you can legally use, and air rifles are not included.
On "game" animals.
Post by: Kain on April 19, 2011, 09:28:18 PM
http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/opossums.html#status (http://wdfw.wa.gov/living/opossums.html#status)
Quote
Legal Status
The opossum is unclassified and may be trapped or killed year-round; no permit is necessary. No permit is necessary for the use of live (cage) traps; however, a special trapping permit is required for the use of all traps other than live traps (RCW 77.15.192, 77.15.194; WAC 232-12-142).
If no permit is required and they are not on the list of "game" animals http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-007 (http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=232-12-007)) then unless stated otherwise you can use any method you want to kill them. Shovel, club, axe, pellet rifle and so on. But there is a problem with this because under the small game summary it says you have to have a license to hunt them. Any animal that requires a license is a "game" animal as you pointed out.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/summary_hunting_dates.html (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/summary_hunting_dates.html)
Quote
orest grouse* 4/12 Sept. 1-Dec. 31 Mixed Bag
Bobcat None Sept. 1-Mar. 15 Cannot be hunted with dogs
Pelt must sealed by WDFW
Raccoon None Sept. 1- Mar. 15 Closed on Long Island within Willapa National Wildlife Refuge
Fox None Sept. 1-Mar. 15 Closed within Mount Baker-Snoqualmie, Okanogan, Wenatchee, and Gifford Pinchot National Forests, and GMUs 407 and 1410
Coyote* None Year round Hunting license required. Cannot be hunted with dogs
Cottontail rabbit and Snowshoe hare 5/15 Sept. 1-Mar. 15
Crows None Oct. 1-Jan. 31 Crows in the act of depredation may be taken at any time.
Mountain beaver None Year round Hunting license required.
European rabbit None Year Round Hunting license required.
Gopher None Year Round Except mazama pocket gophers
Gray and fox squirrels None Year Round Except western gray squirrels
Ground squirrels None Year Round Except golden-mantled and Washington ground squirrels
Moles None Year Round Hunting license required.
Nutria None Year Round Hunting license required.
Virginia opossum None Year Round Hunting license required.
Porcupine None Year Round Hunting license required.
Shrews None Year Round Hunting license required.
Spotted skunk None Year Round Hunting license required.
Striped skunk None Year Round Hunting license required.
Voles None Year Round Hunting license required.
Yellow-bellied marmot None Year Round Hunting license required.
Note: Olympic and Hoary marmots are protected.
WHAT? that conflicts with what was just stated above. They contradict each other and neither sites a WAC.
Now you see why it is confusing.
Post by: Special T on April 21, 2011, 01:00:16 PM
Post by: Kain on April 21, 2011, 01:35:58 PM
and this surprises you Kain? :dunno:
It only surprises me that people are still surprised that the regs are confusing. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Post by: Special T on April 21, 2011, 02:41:00 PM