Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bear Hunting => Topic started by: dc on April 22, 2011, 03:55:39 PM

Title: bear dogs?
Post by: dc on April 22, 2011, 03:55:39 PM: Went out today to check my trail cameras to see if any bear are wondering around. I run into a turkey hunter who tells me that werehauser has contracted hound hunters to run and shoot all the bears they can. I later heard the dogs barking and howling as if a bear was on the run. If there are so many bears causing damage, than why doesnt the state just open up an early general season to help with the tree damage. No draw, just general season. Not sure how long the hound guys will be at it, and I know its to keep the bears from peeling the trees. Cant we the hunters do that? I would help, and wouldnt even need for them to ask me please. Kinda madning, to know hounds are outlawed but the big timber companys can use them anyway. Just a rant.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: MtnMuley on April 22, 2011, 04:07:51 PM: I hear what you are saying dc. Just one of the many depressing issues that face us.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bearbaito6 on April 22, 2011, 05:11:25 PM: It is because the boot type hunters are not effective enough, Look at the spring bear hunts 100 plus tags for an area and only a handful of bears die. The timber owners have the right to protect there investments, as the law allows.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: quadrafire on April 22, 2011, 05:32:19 PM: Can they do that----Is it legal?? Doesnt' sound right.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: rtspring on April 22, 2011, 05:53:43 PM: Don't know all the facts here but this sure sounds like a bad deal....
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: Machias on April 22, 2011, 07:56:00 PM: It's legal, drives me crazy...yes I'm jealous!!!!
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bearbaito6 on April 22, 2011, 09:06:19 PM: Yes in the 1996 initiative where hound hunting was taken away from us, there was a clause attached that allows hound hunting for depredation
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bearbaito6 on April 22, 2011, 09:22:02 PM: Quote from: rtspring on April 22, 2011, 05:53:43 PM
Don't know all the facts here but this sure sounds like a bad deal....

Why is this a bad deal? The timber industry is losing thousands upon thousands of dollars annually to bear damage. Wouldn't you use the most effective method to target the bears that are causing the damage, If it was your land and money?
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: Special T on April 22, 2011, 09:27:40 PM: Hmm sound to me like if your a hound hunter you need to make some contacts with timber co... Get paid to hunt or pay... Hmmm
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: rtspring on April 22, 2011, 09:33:12 PM: So if I own a hay field, corn field, apple orchard etc. Am I allowed to chase down the Elk and Deer with dogs? NOPE SURE CAN"T !!!

All I am saying is there is a better way I would think. This is no different than the elk that destory crops around the hanford area, but when the hunter trys to get onto the pricvate land to hunt them, we usually get a big no. But these farmers are the first ones standing in line with there hands out for compensation for their loss.. I raise the BS flag as high as it can go ...
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bigtex on April 22, 2011, 11:00:04 PM: Quote from: bearbaito6 on April 22, 2011, 09:06:19 PM
Yes in the 1996 initiative where hound hunting was taken away from us, there was a clause attached that allows hound hunting for depredation

Another thing is that the hound hunters cannot keep the bears (for example they cannot take them home and butcher them for eating)
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 22, 2011, 11:10:36 PM: So what do they do with them? Let them rot? Seems like a lot of people like bearskins and bear meat.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bearbaito6 on April 23, 2011, 05:55:24 AM: The hound hunters are not being paid. The meat goes to different charities, and I believe the hide is auctioned and the money is used for charity.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: Deep Forks on April 23, 2011, 06:06:58 AM: I wonder if it's Washington hound hunters?
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: Jerome on April 23, 2011, 04:54:49 PM: Bearbait06 is nailing this pretty much dead on. The only thing the hound hunters get out of the deal is that they get to run their dogs. The meat will also go to shelters. I think the timber companies are smart for using hound hunters. In 2009 harvest report only 5 bear were reported taken out of North Skagit and 9 were reported in Monroe. Thats only 14 tags filled out of 45 permits issued between the two damage hunt permit areas. With numbers that low it wouldnt suprise me if Sierra Pacific went to using hound hunters in the future.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: Swatson on April 24, 2011, 06:42:01 AM: Quote from: rtspring on April 22, 2011, 09:33:12 PM
So if I own a hay field, corn field, apple orchard etc. Am I allowed to chase down the Elk and Deer with dogs? NOPE SURE CAN"T !!!

???? State gives out all kinds of land owner tags for these problems! It's a no brainer for timber companies when it comes to using dogs for bears as its way more effective. I'm confused on why this would be an issue for anyone. The liberal folks of this state voted to screw the hound hunters back in the 90's and now a very small percentage of them get to run their dogs on timber company lands to help the timber companies out and that bothers you? It doesn't effect your general bear season and their certainly is no lack of bears in the woods anymore.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bucklucky on April 24, 2011, 07:26:24 AM: Quote from: JimmyHoffa on April 22, 2011, 11:10:36 PM
So what do they do with them? Let them rot? Seems like a lot of people like bearskins and bear meat.

We would take the meat to the local butcher and it would then go to the food bank or shelters as burger. The hide went to a local fur dealer that bought the hide contracts for like 5 years. The contracts were bid on every 5 years . If you killed a bear that you wanted you could buy the hide back from the fur dealer after it was tanned. And yes, thee was times that we did get paid for Milleage but that was only the good timber companys wich was nice. Fuel gets expensive and we were doing a favor for the timber companys small and large. We would get permits for pieces that were as small as 20 acres . Neerly every tree was peeled. That alot of dough they could loose. Small tracts were the herdest to kill bears off of because it was hard to get the bear while they were oin such a small piece. Most of those peices didnt have a road through it so you would have to leash dogs up and go through or try to walk them through a beerly inpenetreble brushy westside jungle ..... oh I miss it :chuckle:
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: johnsc6 on April 24, 2011, 08:37:42 PM: :yeah: Me too
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: JimmyHoffa on April 24, 2011, 08:51:22 PM: Thanks guys for answering my question on this. The post that prompted me to ask kind of made it seem like the houndsmen couldn't do anything with the bears. I figured there was probably some kind of use for the bears. I've known farmers in other states that like having people come shoot all the feral hogs, and they didn't care what was done with them...kind of like coyotes. I was curious if this was like that, but if the law didn't allow them to use the animals.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: Houndhunter on April 25, 2011, 09:52:49 AM: last i knew, you must kill every bear you tree aswell. so you tree a sow with cubs and youd have to shoot all of them, atleast thats how it used to be not sure if it is any different
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: Michelle_Nelson on April 25, 2011, 10:36:31 AM: I say good for the Hound Hunters that are getting to run there dogs. Boot hunters get the option to draw a tag and a few houndsman get to do what they enjoy (see there dogs work).

The bill that was passed making Hounds illegal for Bear and Cougar and Baiting illegal for Bears is bullchit.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: Special T on April 25, 2011, 10:43:41 AM: I run into more people now that are more inclined to turn a blind eye to less than legal activities like shooting bears over bait, w/ dogs, or at wolves.. Or so they say... I can only surmise that many normally law abiding hunters are getting tired of getting hosed by the state... I've heard all the Bla Bla about a poacher is a poacher from the high and mighty on this site, but we must realize that we either need to fight, give up our sport, or condemn ourselves to being outlaws. :twocents:
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: hunter93 on May 24, 2011, 10:57:11 AM: also if i rember right last year when i was on a timber permit, the permit was for two bear, and i think we only had like two weeks to harvest them. then we would have to apply and wait for another permit. i think the should just open up a month or two for the hounders to hunt, to help with the maangement. even if they made it so if you chose to run dogs then you can only get the one bear tag instead of the two we are allowed. just an idea.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bucklucky on May 24, 2011, 11:11:19 AM: Another thing, trees grow for years before they are harvested, so bear damage hurts real bad over the years where as say a crop of wheat. How long does a tree have to grow, 25 years or better. Trying to compare a farmers crop to a timber companys trees is assinine In my opinion. You just dont replant a tree everytime one gets pelled and dies.

As for tag numbers for depredation. A forester will come in and count the damage in certain blocks of land and will ok a certain number of tags wich is normaly no more than 2 , but does sometimes get to be more. There is usually a 2 week period for the tags to be filled. You can ask for an extension if necesary and is usually granted. Usually the 2 weeks is enough time if you got good access and plenty of land to hunt. The timber company has no say as to how many bears get killed, thats up to WDFW. It is a pain in the ass process.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 24, 2011, 02:02:40 PM: Its to bad they don't make the spring tags spring bait tags it would sure bring the success rate up.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bucklucky on May 24, 2011, 02:06:45 PM: Quote from: D-Rock425 on May 24, 2011, 02:02:40 PM
Its to bad they don't make the spring tags spring bait tags it would sure bring the success rate up.

I agree
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bowsandhose on May 24, 2011, 02:15:41 PM: Quote from: D-Rock425 on May 24, 2011, 02:02:40 PM
Its to bad they don't make the spring tags spring bait tags it would sure bring the success rate up.
:yeah:
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bearbaito6 on May 24, 2011, 03:05:59 PM: Yeah but, by using bait you are not necessarily targeting the bears causing the damage. Not all bear peel trees. Using hounds in the area with damage and only being able to hunt one square mile from gps cords, is more likely to get the bears that are doing the damage. By using bait your going to suck bears in from miles away. Also I don't think most of the guys baiting that kill a bear are going to want to give it away to charity after sitting in a tree stand for days on end. The hound guys only benefit is to run there dogs they don't get to keep any part of the bear, and neither should bait guys.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 24, 2011, 04:38:38 PM: I didn't mean for timber companies. I meant for the spring bear tag drawings.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: bucklucky on May 24, 2011, 04:40:14 PM: Quote from: D-Rock425 on May 24, 2011, 04:38:38 PM
I didn't mean for timber companies. I meant for the spring bear tag drawings.

Me too, I wish baiting would be legal period.
Title: Re: bear dogs?
Post by: Houndhunter on May 26, 2011, 12:40:23 AM: not all bear peak trees? Not sure about that, they need those free floating sugars as part of their diet this time of year. Unless they are getting that from another source I think it's safe to say that they all peel trees