Hunting Washington Forum

Equipment & Gear => Archery Gear => Topic started by: lokidog on April 28, 2011, 07:01:55 PM

Title: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: lokidog on April 28, 2011, 07:01:55 PM: I finally got to shoot the new bow, Bowtech Invasion. I'm liking it but have a couple of questions. I have a QAD Ultra Rest on it and noticed that my arrows are leaving fletch marks on the rest, see picture #1. It seems like the rest is not dropping fast enough. Any ideas?

The second picture is of my target. I do not have paper handy to paper test it right now. I think this pattern should tell something though. The lowest arrow is my 0 to 20 yard pin and is right on at 20 yards. The next arrow up was also shot at 20 yards but used the "30" yard pin, the top arrow is also at 20 yards but used my "40" yard pin. These are in parentheses because I just spaced them evenly down the sight. I think my rest needs to be moved one way or the other since they move off at an angle. I am guessing I need to move the rest to the right. Any ideas again?

Thanks for the help.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: Old Dog on April 28, 2011, 08:18:04 PM: Where's the pics? :dunno:
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: lokidog on April 28, 2011, 09:26:48 PM: Oops, thanks for letting me know.

I raised the rest a tiny bit and that seems like it may have reduced the fletch marks but did not shoot it much after the adjustment.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: Lowedog on April 28, 2011, 10:06:24 PM: Judging by where those marks are it appears your rest is not dropping fast enough or it is bouncing back up.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: Old Dog on April 28, 2011, 10:23:58 PM: OK. From what I can see in the first picture it looks like the cord that raises the rest is too short unless the picture was taken at full draw. If that cord is too short the rest does not drop out of the way, and you will get fletch contact. This is the way I set those up. Without drawing the bow pull the cord that works the rest untill it is tight. There will need to be several inches of extra cord on the tag end. (the end you pulled to get the cord tight). Now draw the bow. The cord will slide through the cable to the correct length, or very close anyway. Mark the cord for length, pull it through again, trim it, and burn the end to form a knob, so it can't pull through. Draw the bow again, and it should be set up correctly. To be sure it is set correctly. When you get the bow to full draw look to see if the timing marks on the rest are lined up. Those are the white hash marks on the inside of the rest. They show clearly in your picture. If you are using the clamp that comes with the rest it takes a little more trial and error. Clamp everything down, but leave the cord with some slack in it. Draw the bow and watch the timing marks on the rest. Adjust the length of the cord until the rest times properly.

In the second picture your are either canting the bow a little or the center shot needs to be adjusted. When you are shooting pay attention to the bubble on your sight. that will cure bow cant. To check center shot oyu need to have a 40 yard range. Useing your 20 yard pin shoot an arrow at 20 yards. Now continue to use your 20 yard pin, and aim at the same spot, but walk back 5 yards. Continue moving back at 5 yards at a time until you get to 40 yards. If your center shot is good the arrows will be in a straight line. If the line goes to the left move yoyr rest right. If the line goes to the right move the rest left. Make very small adjustments. Of course you cannot be canting your bow when you do this.

I hope this helps.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: lokidog on April 28, 2011, 10:36:40 PM: Thanks. I think the rest was a touch low and bouncing on the rest as it did not stop in the flat position shown in the picture on the package. I moved it up about 1/32 of an inch and did not see a mark again after ten or so more shots.

I'll try the other thing tomorrow. I did move the rest a touch right and seemed to shoot vertically when trying it again, though my arm was getting tired.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: Todd_ID on April 28, 2011, 11:11:07 PM: Steal one of lokigirl's lipsticks in a bright red color. Paint the edges of the vanes and shoot. This will show where the vane is hitting. Those rests are prone to vane contact from bounce-back (at least the ones I've set up for friends). Old Dog's instructions are perfect for timing. Do them first then try the lipstick trick. If there's no lipstick transferred to the rest arms or containment bar, then you're all set.

If there is contact, then maybe try shooting cock vane down. It looks like you're shooting with it up by the picture, and maybe simply reversing it would solve it. The lipstick will tell the story again.

If you still are getting contact, then you'll have to adjust the rest timing (length of the cord) until your contact goes away. A pad of moleskin under the rest on the shelf helps reduce bounce and greatly quiets the rest. I've found that bounce-back is easier to tune out on those rests by making the rest fall sooner (slightly longer cord); that way the rest falls, bounces and it falls again before the vanes get there.

Newspaper, or even better Xmas wrapping paper, on a cardboard box works fine for paper tuning. Use Old Dog's advice (walkback tuning) to get centershot perfect and then paper tuning to get nock level/rest height perfect.

Unless your sight pins do this \ from 20 to 40, then I think tired and/or bow cant was your trouble on the picture of the arrows. A walkback tuning session will look like that for a rest that needs to go left, but not when shot from the same distance with different pins that are in a vertical line. Plus, 1 arrow isn't enough to tune by; you need to use the group average of at least 3: too much human error in 1 shot to tell anything meaningful.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: lokidog on April 28, 2011, 11:20:20 PM: Thanks Todd. "Lokigirl" is actually Weathergirl... and she rarely wears lipstick or any of that other annoying girl stuff that takes too much time, since she doesn't need it to look great! :chuckle:

I'll play more tomorrow or this weekend.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: Lowedog on April 29, 2011, 06:09:38 AM: Those QAD rests seem to be lacking in vane clearance. I picked one up off of AT a month or so ago that was practically new for cheap and set it up on my Hoyt Maxxis. I found right away that I can't shoot through it with cock vane down. I very much prefer my NAP Sizzor rest I have on my D340 for a containment rest. It hold the arrow more securely and opens up for complete clearance. Only limiting factor when using the Sizzor rest on what you use to steer your arrow is your bow riser.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: Button Nubbs on April 29, 2011, 09:06:45 AM: Loki-

You can also spray the vanes with tough actin tinactin powder spray.

Which qad model is it?
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: lokidog on April 29, 2011, 07:42:54 PM: It's the Ultra-Rest LD, proseries. Well, I shot some more tonight. Changed the string length, it was a bit tight bit only about an eighth of an inch. Set it to just reach the reference lines. Tried the lipstick and nothing showed, still made noise like contact, eventually white marks showed up again. Tried moving the rest all the way forward and back, no changes. Seems to be kind of a noisy rest even when it was behid the riser and not dropping down on it.

Not sure what to do at this point. I had my wife take some video of the rest while I shot, haven't looked at it yet. Amazingly I am still getting tight groups even with the contact, though I know with a broadhead it would end up all over.....

Might have to try my old rest on the new bow for a bit to see...

Thanks for the input.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: Button Nubbs on April 29, 2011, 08:23:20 PM: I have the same rest and have had ZERO problems with mine, and a several thousand shots through it. Sounds like a weird situation. Did you try the other launcher it came with it? Might be getting contact from the underside of the vane not the edge? :dunno: weird.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: Lowedog on April 29, 2011, 09:57:58 PM: Strange for sure. From that pic it looks like your rest isn't getting out of the way at all. That is the same rest I have and it works great. I think it has a brake in it to help catch it so it doesn't bounce much. Like I posted before it seems to lack slightly for total vane clearance but it works well and I haven't thought it to be noisy at all.

If you make it fall manually by slipping your thumb off the cocking tab does it seem to operate fine?
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: Jason on April 29, 2011, 10:29:32 PM: Put your cock vane down, I have a QAD and shoot mine cock vane down, you should have gotten two forks with your rest, ones taller than the other, I think you want to run the taller one. Put some mole tape on your riser shelf, if your forks are slapping the shelf on release it will be loud. And QAD's don't usually bounce, they have a brake. Your string looks tight in that pic, does it have tension on it? and maybe your arrows are tailing down on release, raise your nock up, you can only lower your rest so much before your forks hit the shelf, you want your forks to lay flat on the shelf and have a little clearence.
Title: Re: Questions regarding new bow?
Post by: lokidog on May 01, 2011, 09:28:33 PM: I'll try it when I get a chance, fishing has taken priority this week. Thanks.