Post by: homehunter on May 09, 2011, 07:08:33 PM
Post by: sakoshooter on May 09, 2011, 09:28:40 PM
I had this discussion with a WDFW Bio in Okanogan when they went 3pt min on the east side for mule deer. He agreed but said they couldn't sell the 2pt max to the public so they left the 3pt in place. There are more mature bucks these days in the Okanogan units so hopefully it'll do the same on the units you're talking about.
Post by: Ridgeratt on May 09, 2011, 09:30:25 PM
Ferry,Stevens & Pend Orielle counties
Post by: oldleclercrd on May 09, 2011, 09:41:59 PM
Yes just wished they had made the whole northeastern units 4 point min.
Yeah like unit 113. Its like over on this side we have no voice, and over in 117 and 121 they easily get what they ask for. Just remember in 113 were feeding the wolfs, how about some help over here. :twocents:
Post by: gonehuntin68 on May 10, 2011, 11:50:00 AM
Post by: PolarBear on May 10, 2011, 12:08:27 PM
Yes just wished they had made the whole northeastern units 4 point min.
Ferry,Stevens & Pend Orielle counties
:yeah:
Post by: SkookumHntr on May 10, 2011, 02:05:31 PM
Post by: dscubame on May 10, 2011, 03:02:22 PM
I got real tired of seeing every damn 2 inch spike shot off the roads every year. Let them grow up, get smart, and survive.
Post by: oldleclercrd on May 10, 2011, 03:09:59 PM
Post by: homehunter on May 10, 2011, 04:59:35 PM
Post by: Hunt4ever on May 11, 2011, 08:20:38 AM
Post by: KopperBuck on May 11, 2011, 09:10:28 AM
Love the 4 pt min. I have been in the area for 15 plus years and watched it go down hill fast. I have been pushing for a 3 pt for many years now in that area and support the 4 pt 100 percent.
I got real tired of seeing every damn 2 inch spike shot off the roads every year. Let them grow up, get smart, and survive.
Must be nice to afford the opportunity to hunt for horns and not meat.
Post by: coachcw on May 11, 2011, 09:19:08 AM
Post by: dscubame on May 11, 2011, 10:13:35 AM
Love the 4 pt min. I have been in the area for 15 plus years and watched it go down hill fast. I have been pushing for a 3 pt for many years now in that area and support the 4 pt 100 percent.
I got real tired of seeing every damn 2 inch spike shot off the roads every year. Let them grow up, get smart, and survive.
Must be nice to afford the opportunity to hunt for horns and not meat.
There is plenty of opportunity for meat hunts and I take advantage of those too. 5 of my last 6 elk have been cows. Thanks for singling me out with your pleasant comment however.
Post by: KopperBuck on May 11, 2011, 10:50:22 AM
Love the 4 pt min. I have been in the area for 15 plus years and watched it go down hill fast. I have been pushing for a 3 pt for many years now in that area and support the 4 pt 100 percent.
I got real tired of seeing every damn 2 inch spike shot off the roads every year. Let them grow up, get smart, and survive.
Must be nice to afford the opportunity to hunt for horns and not meat.
There is plenty of opportunity for meat hunts and I take advantage of those too. 5 of my last 6 elk have been cows. Thanks for singling me out with your pleasant comment however.
Sorry if you feel singled out, but it was the last on the thread.
I'd love to take advantage of cow and doe tags - but last I checked they aren't as easy to come by for those that don't have special consideration.
Post by: KopperBuck on May 11, 2011, 11:06:08 AM
Every elk I have ever shot has been a cow. But only b/c they've been damage tags, not through draw. Nor have I ever drawn a doe tag. I agree, there is opportunity, but not through general seasons. There are still a lot of people, probably most of which that don't visit this site, that rely on wild game.
Post by: stormin85 on May 11, 2011, 11:13:10 AM
You hear guys complain the deer aren't big enough/old enough here, but then those same guys don't want to let these little/young bucks walk, like previously stated if it really is about meat shoot a doe, i couldn't get a mature buck within range this year so i took a doe, would i have liked a nice buck? yeah!
Did i have opportunities with some decent bucks? a few, and did i still get lucky taking a doe with two days to go? yeah, but thats the chance you take holding out for a mature deer, along with it being responsible with what hunting opportunities we have we need to let the bucks have a long enough life to breed for a couple years and become smart enough to survive, when there is three four or five types of predation on deer, with no limitations to which ones are killed the population is going to dwindle.
It would be nice to see hunters take it upon themselves to set the bar up high enough that spikes two points and young three points have a chance to grow and only take a true mature deer, but it wasn't happening and it shows in the results of fewer and fewer opportunities at quality bucks and the overall weakening of the population,
That is what quality deer management is about, not just feeding them or creating healthy food plots and good cover, but allowing the herd to be strong enough that at some point quality bucks that are four and five years old are the norm, not just some huge 4x4 5x5 or whatever is the goal, but a healthy solid deer population is out there breeding.
I am one of those that majority of what my family eats is from what i hunt or fish or what we grow for vegetables and i truly don't want to go home with an unfilled tag, but it happens and we still need to manage the wildlife we hunt
Post by: dscubame on May 11, 2011, 11:15:52 AM
I don't mind stirring the pot on this issue. I was raised meat over horns. That's just how it is. I don't take offense to your stance, but there is another side. I probably could've been a little less matter-of-factly, and I'll apologize for my insensitivity.
Every elk I have ever shot has been a cow. But only b/c they've been damage tags, not through draw. Nor have I ever drawn a doe tag. I agree, there is opportunity, but not through general seasons. There are still a lot of people, probably most of which that don't visit this site, that rely on wild game.
I too understand your position and your thought process on the matter. Too bad there is not a one size fits all solution to this matter.
Post by: oldleclercrd on May 11, 2011, 11:18:25 AM
Post by: KopperBuck on May 11, 2011, 11:25:41 AM
People hear 4pt. minimum and automatically think its for trophy hunting. Read the fine print that go into these restrictions. Sure there will eventually be bigger bucks, but thats not the reason. A mature buck that passes on his genes is way better than some little spike. If there are more mature bucks fighting for does only the most fit and healthy ones will do the breeding and in turn enhance the quality of the genetics in the area for the WHOLE HERD. Healthier deer result in better survival rates and that means more deer. More deer mean a better opportunity for BOTH TROPHY AND MEAT HUNTERS. :twocents:
To some degree. I've always entertained the idea that increased competition could also weaken winter survival rates. And your theory about a mature bucks genetics being better than a spike - I wouldn't make it a blanket statement. We have no idea what genetics that spike holds. Otherwise we should really be culling the spikes :drool:
I too wish there were a one size fits all. I'm just not a fan of pt restriction. I think we need to go to controlled hunts... But I'm not holding my breath.
Post by: oldleclercrd on May 11, 2011, 11:44:01 AM
People hear 4pt. minimum and automatically think its for trophy hunting. Read the fine print that go into these restrictions. Sure there will eventually be bigger bucks, but thats not the reason. A mature buck that passes on his genes is way better than some little spike. If there are more mature bucks fighting for does only the most fit and healthy ones will do the breeding and in turn enhance the quality of the genetics in the area for the WHOLE HERD. Healthier deer result in better survival rates and that means more deer. More deer mean a better opportunity for BOTH TROPHY AND MEAT HUNTERS. :twocents:
To some degree. I've always entertained the idea that increased competition could also weaken winter survival rates. And your theory about a mature bucks genetics being better than a spike - I wouldn't make it a blanket statement. We have no idea what genetics that spike holds. Otherwise we should really be culling the spikes :drool:
I too wish there were a one size fits all. I'm just not a fan of pt restriction. I think we need to go to controlled hunts... But I'm not holding my breath.
Your right maybe I should have worded the spike thing different, but because we dont know the quality of his genetics why take the risk of letting him breed?
Post by: spookgus on May 11, 2011, 01:59:41 PM
If we really want to help the deer herd, I would like all predator hunting opened to the use of hounds and bait. Curtailing the use of hounds wasn't a game management decision but a voter decision. It might also help to move some WDFW positions from administration to enforcement on the ground.
Post by: The100Road on May 12, 2011, 12:30:44 PM
Post by: dscubame on May 12, 2011, 01:09:58 PM
It is pointless to let the little "legal" bucks walk unless you are going after a trophy. If you pass on the small 3 point to let it grow up, the guy around the corner or on the next hillside is going to shoot it anyway. Therefor you wasted a chance at filling the freezer. Dont try to pretend this isnt true.
So true. Elk hunting last year my hunting partner and I kept cominig across this little 4 point WT for three days straight. We had deer tags but we have a internal rule that the Elk comes first. Late morning on day three we pass on the 4 pt again at 20 yards as it just stairs as us with a spike with him. Not more than a a hour later a 4 wheeler comes up on me with the 4 pt strapped on. Nothing wrong with it at all and I was very glad for this old timer just pointing out how true it is that just because you do not take the animal by no stretch of the imagination does that mean the animal is not going to be taken. That was a good day and I never did mention to the old timer the history I had with that buck. Saw this buck months prior while servicing trail cams as well.
Post by: Hunt4ever on May 12, 2011, 03:17:28 PM
It is pointless to let the little "legal" bucks walk unless you are going after a trophy. If you pass on the small 3 point to let it grow up, the guy around the corner or on the next hillside is going to shoot it anyway. Therefor you wasted a chance at filling the freezer. Dont try to pretend this isnt true.
Not if theres a 4 point restriction they wont... :tung:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on May 12, 2011, 03:27:31 PM
Post by: gonehuntin68 on May 12, 2011, 07:49:56 PM
Post by: KopperBuck on May 12, 2011, 08:12:17 PM
Yes they will, most all whitetails are little 4 points, 3 points with eyeguards so when you pass up the little 4 pointer to let it grow up so and so is gonna shoot it around the corner most likely an indian
Weird.. I thought they were all west side people that shot those... thanks for the junk comment. How 'bout a constructive contribute..