Hunting Washington Forum

Big Game Hunting => Bow Hunting => Topic started by: kckrawler on May 26, 2011, 07:01:29 AM

Title: Putting one in the chest
Post by: kckrawler on May 26, 2011, 07:01:29 AM: For starters, I'm a fairly new archerer. I used to deer hunt but gave it up for rifle about 12 years ago. I'm finding out that technology sure has changed since then! Recently, I saw a big bull shot through the chest at about 3 yards, I'd like some information and opinions about what everyone thinks about it.

Aren't you punching through brisket when taking that shot? Do newer bows have enough punch to do it? If you were to take the shot, how far out before you risk wounding an elk?

Thanks for the info!
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on May 26, 2011, 07:13:04 AM: At 9 feet Id be inclined to take that shot!
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 26, 2011, 07:17:24 AM: I've killed 5 animals with a bow. All of the arrows passed through and came out the other side. Archery equipment has changed greatly over the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: bowsandhose on May 26, 2011, 07:18:23 AM: very risky shot even with the energy of new bows the thick bones and angle of the ribcage can deflect your arrow or if you only get one lung elk can go for days. I'm not saying that its not a very lethal shot just a higher chance of wounding or losing an elk :twocents:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: pianoman9701 on May 26, 2011, 07:20:44 AM: I misread the post and have no experience shooting an animal 3 yards. Hence the lack of any poop in my hunting pants so far.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: kckrawler on May 26, 2011, 07:25:57 AM: Quote from: wildmanoutdoors on May 26, 2011, 07:13:04 AM
At 9 feet Id be inclined to take that shot!

At what point would you decide to let it pass?
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: kckrawler on May 26, 2011, 07:27:58 AM: Quote from: pianoman9701 on May 26, 2011, 07:20:44 AM
I misread the post and have no experience shooting an animal 3 yards. Hence the lack of any poop in my hunting pants so far.

:chuckle: I never said anything about the lack of poop in my pants, let me tell ya! :liar:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: singleshot12 on May 26, 2011, 07:31:27 AM: There is a soft spot right above the brisket about the size of an orange. I once had a head on shot at a cow elk at 20 yards, I was using a 55 lb long bow with cedar arrows, the arrow entered that soft spot, went 3/4 of the way in, elk went about 50 yards and expired, found the shaft end of the arrow embedded in the inside back hind quarter, to this day not sure how that cedar shaft traveled the whole length on the body though.

I would say it is a risky shot and would result in more wounded animals. I probably wouldn't take the shot again but at the time it felt like the right and only chance on that elk. I guess my advise would be if it feels right take the shot.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: iRem on May 26, 2011, 09:02:52 AM: Quote from: kckrawler on May 26, 2011, 07:27:58 AM
Quote from: pianoman9701 on May 26, 2011, 07:20:44 AM
I misread the post and have no experience shooting an animal 3 yards. Hence the lack of any poop in my hunting pants so far.

:chuckle: I never said anything about the lack of poop in my pants, let me tell ya! :liar:
LOL
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on May 26, 2011, 09:08:52 AM: Quote from: kckrawler on May 26, 2011, 07:25:57 AM
Quote from: wildmanoutdoors on May 26, 2011, 07:13:04 AM
At 9 feet Id be inclined to take that shot!

At what point would you decide to let it pass?

It would defiantly depend on the situation. If it had no idea I was there and I was ready to squeeze the trigger and already aimed, Id probably go 20 feet anyway. I had one 2 years ago at 30 or so yards facing straight not alerted and I passed. But 30 was an estimate and no way could I have ranged exactly without it being alerted. Then the cows started barking...
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on May 26, 2011, 09:16:29 AM: That is opening a whole can of worms there.....
I took a deer one time with a shot like that, the deer jumped straight up in the air, flipped over and landed on its back. All you could see were hooves in the air.
At the time I was a little more foolish than I am now, and using a 70# compound on a little Blacktail....
I doubt that I would try it on an Elk, too many things could go wrong.
I passed up that shot on a cow year before last, she was 6 yards, but looking right at me, I tend to overthink my shots now, and let a lot of animals walk away because I am unconfortable with what I feel is going to happen upon release. I often kick myself later for not shooting, but feel better about it than if I had shot, and lost the animal. :twocents:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Snapshot on May 27, 2011, 10:02:06 AM: I think there is a risk of wounding the elk from nine feet given that the spot the arrow must enter is the size of an apple. If the elk were completely calm and unaware of any danger, and if the hunter were experienced enough to a) have his/her nerves under control, and b) regularly practised shooting distances of ten to fifteen feet then they might be able to pull it off. But being just an inch off the mark makes for a wounded elk that could go for miles and miles and miles. I don't think I could bring myself to attempt it.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: OlympicElkJunkie on May 27, 2011, 10:19:20 AM: Personally I would typically pass on it that shot. For me there are three reasons:
1. I don't practice a 3 yard shot much
2. I am confident I can get at least a quartering away shot (obviously no guarantee, but I've got lots of patience)
3. I haven't studied the anatomy of that shot enough to be confident in it with an arrow.

Obviously #1 and #3 can be dealt with but unless I have I'm just not comfortable taking it. I have seen this shot made and done so in a way just as lethal as any broadside shot so I know it is a feasible shot.
:twocents:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: DoubleJ on May 27, 2011, 11:02:07 AM: I've watched my dad twice over the years have an elk head on with him and he was unnoticed. He ducked a little lower in the brush, picked up a rock and chucked it out about 30 feet to the side of the elk, and i'll be damned if both times those elk turned 90 degrees and gave him a broadside shot.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: WA hunter14 on May 27, 2011, 11:24:16 AM: what do you mean, your dad had an elk head on with him? :dunno:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: MP123 on May 27, 2011, 11:46:55 AM: Quote from: WA hunter14 on May 27, 2011, 11:24:16 AM
what do you mean, your dad had an elk head on with him? :dunno:

He means the elk was head on or facing directly towards his dad so he didn't have a good shot.

Or maybe his dad was wearing an Elk Head too :chuckle:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: WA hunter14 on May 27, 2011, 12:00:30 PM: haha thats what i was wandering too :chuckle:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: DoubleJ on May 27, 2011, 12:11:16 PM: Quote from: MP123 on May 27, 2011, 11:46:55 AM
Quote from: WA hunter14 on May 27, 2011, 11:24:16 AM
what do you mean, your dad had an elk head on with him? :dunno:

He means the elk was head on or facing directly towards his dad so he didn't have a good shot.

This. We were in a brush pile, basically, and in comes a bull, coming to a cow call. I was 8 or 9 and it was just us. He didn't have a caller to run the bull past him, so he did the best he could. I hadn't even started calling at that age so, I couldn't call for him. Main reason I've had my 9 year old practicing for 2 years now.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: alwinearcher on May 28, 2011, 01:14:50 PM: Under 10 yards I will take a frontal shot on a elk..
Like someone said though, not many people practice at extremely close yardages. At 3 yards you need to be using your 60 or 70 yard pin, not your 20 pin.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: jechicdr on May 28, 2011, 01:48:21 PM: At 3 yards, I would change my form and just aim down the arrow...the arrow drop at 3 yards would be negligible. At 10 yards, usually the range I'm shooting a grouse for supper when I'm elk hunting, I put my 20 yard pin on its feet to take off its head.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: jstone on May 28, 2011, 03:36:30 PM: We where in the entiat hunting. My buddy shot a buck straight on at about 5 yards. Punched him in the chest. Blood every were. The buck walked straight up the ridge a couple hundred yards then vanished. That's one tuff deer. Had to bleed out. Went up hill not down. That close MAYBE :dunno:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: coldsteel3d on May 29, 2011, 10:30:30 AM: My cousin has shot two bulls while we've been hunting in the chest, one at 4 yards and one a 6 yards, neither bull went more than 40 yards and there was lots of blood. One was a huge bodied rosie 6x6, largest bodied bull I've seen on the ground, and one was a typical sized rosie, 5x5 raghorn.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: D-Rock425 on May 29, 2011, 01:53:45 PM: I've seen it done on deer twice and both times the results were not good.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: carpsniperg2 on May 29, 2011, 05:32:34 PM: I have shot one strait on at 28 yards. Went less then 20 yards and was stone dead.

Quote from: jechicdr@yahoo.com on May 28, 2011, 01:48:21 PM
At 3 yards, I would change my form and just aim down the arrow...the arrow drop at 3 yards would be negligible. At 10 yards, usually the range I'm shooting a grouse for supper when I'm elk hunting, I put my 20 yard pin on its feet to take off its head.

:chuckle: In 09 I shot my elk when it ran by me at 5-6 yards. My instictive shooting took over and the old xforce got turned like one of my recurves or bowfishing bows :chuckle: No sights needed for that shot :IBCOOL:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on May 29, 2011, 05:50:46 PM: hahaha ya thats a tough call .. just depends on your ability to put the arrow dead center.. 2 or 3 inches right or left could mean wounded animal but if you can make that shot its all over.. I shot a couple critters head on and it was a serious blood bath and do not recall any going to far ...
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Alan K on May 29, 2011, 06:14:06 PM: Was with one of the hunting partners 3-4 years back in the Skookumchuck and we had a bunch of elk shoved right to us. Heard them coming from a mile away and all the sudden the tear over the next ridge over and come right on top of us. We were crouched down in the 3' sword ferns and the lead cow didn't spot us until she was about 5 yards. Buddy was already at full draw and he burried an arrow in her chest. The body sucked up the whole arrow but didn't come out the back. She whirled and went about 25 yards or so up the gentle ridge, got wobbly, and tipped over. Down in sight, it was awesome.

I don't think there is any problem with the shot at close ranges. The main problem I see with the shot though is you are generally only going to get one hole, and if the arrow doesnt penetrate all the way or break off, that arrow is partially plugging the one hole, leading to a potentially weak blood trail if it somehow gets through there without tearing up the vitals too bad.

:twocents:

Quote from: alwinearcher on May 28, 2011, 01:14:50 PM
Under 10 yards I will take a frontal shot on a elk..
Like someone said though, not many people practice at extremely close yardages. At 3 yards you need to be using your 60 or 70 yard pin, not your 20 pin.

Are you sure? We used to try and thread our arrows through the flipped up tabs on pop cans at <10 yards when we started getting low on light while practicing over the summer and I remember putting my 20 on the bottom of the can to do it. Had I put my 60/70 on it it would have been way high I'm pretty sure. :dunno:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 29, 2011, 06:27:14 PM: Quote from: Alan K on May 29, 2011, 06:14:06 PM
Was with one of the hunting partners 3-4 years back in the Skookumchuck and we had a bunch of elk shoved right to us. Heard them coming from a mile away and all the sudden the tear over the next ridge over and come right on top of us. We were crouched down in the 3' sword ferns and the lead cow didn't spot us until she was about 5 yards. Buddy was already at full draw and he burried an arrow in her chest. The body sucked up the whole arrow but didn't come out the back. She whirled and went about 25 yards or so up the gentle ridge, got wobbly, and tipped over. Down in sight, it was awesome.

I don't think there is any problem with the shot at close ranges. The main problem I see with the shot though is you are generally only going to get one hole, and if the arrow doesnt penetrate all the way or break off, that arrow is partially plugging the one hole, leading to a potentially weak blood trail if it somehow gets through there without tearing up the vitals too bad.

:twocents:

Quote from: alwinearcher on May 28, 2011, 01:14:50 PM
Under 10 yards I will take a frontal shot on a elk..
Like someone said though, not many people practice at extremely close yardages. At 3 yards you need to be using your 60 or 70 yard pin, not your 20 pin.

Are you sure? We used to try and thread our arrows through the flipped up tabs on pop cans at <10 yards when we started getting low on light while practicing over the summer and I remember putting my 20 on the bottom of the can to do it. Had I put my 60/70 on it it would have been way high I'm pretty sure. :dunno:

at extreme close ranges i use my 50 or 60 depending on which bow im shooting. think about it arrows arch pretty much from the time the leave the bow to the time they hit their target or the dirt :chuckle: at extremely close range your arrow has not topped out its arch yet, causing your arrow to hit lower than your 20 pin. most bows now days top out at 17ish-23ish yards now days.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Lowedog on May 29, 2011, 06:51:52 PM: I shoot in my garage all the time at a distance of around 10 feet. I use my 50 yard at that range.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Alan K on May 30, 2011, 10:14:57 AM: After being baffled at first about it, I had to get some explaining! Found this thread, it explains it fairly well.

http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=596278 (http://www.archerytalk.com/vb/showthread.php?t=596278)

It's no different than a rifle (don't know why I didn't realize it at first :bash:), the arc is just a lot shorter than that of a rifle. Duh.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: sebek556 on May 30, 2011, 10:27:05 AM: The biggest things I see on this issue is one, your bow set up. How much confidence do you have in your own personal set up? When buying my new set up ( first time in ten years had to buy wife and kids set ups first so finally I get mine hehehe) I shot every new top of the line bow on the market to see what fit me the best and did what I wanted.Now I am testing my pentration and speed with it so I will know what shots I can take with out worry. Two arrow weight lighter arrow is faster but a heavy arrow has more kinetic energy and more "knock down power". three Practice practice practice, which is why I love small game, you get to bring the kids,wife, or who ever and you can practice real world shooting at many ranges, on small target which a broadhead or small game broadhead is a clean lethal hit almost anywhere on them so you don't need to worry about wounding game.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 30, 2011, 10:58:24 AM: I don't think you should be hunting with a bow if your not 100% confideent in your set-up. :twocents:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: dscubame on May 30, 2011, 10:59:31 AM: I am sure your concern is appreciated. :chuckle: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 30, 2011, 11:11:24 AM: I was responding to the above poster. If your not 100% confident in your equipment how confident will you be in your shot? I'm sure Your snide comment is much appreciated... :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: sebek556 on May 30, 2011, 11:24:00 AM: I agree that if you are not 100% confident you shouldnt hunt, but there is a difference in confident in your set up to take a normal broadside or quartering shot. And confident in your set up to take any shot presented to you. Which is why I test (when i can afford to) on crazy shots, like a cow's sholder blade( most butcher shops will give them to you, but be prepared to replace broadheads and sometimes arrows after the shot).
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 30, 2011, 11:28:29 AM: Agreed. I might have to head to the butcher shop. Sounds like a good idea
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: sebek556 on May 30, 2011, 11:34:13 AM: got the idea from doing ballistic test in the army on manicans with replicated skeletal pieces(mainly pig bones some formed fake ones though) in them, so of course being part redneck had to change it into a hunting tool lol.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Button Nubbs on May 30, 2011, 11:36:13 AM: :chuckle:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: throttlejocky20 on May 30, 2011, 08:55:35 PM: No matter how close the only shots for me are broadside or quarting away
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: BULLBLASTER on June 02, 2011, 07:19:22 PM: i have shot a bull straight on like that in the past and given the same conditions i would do it again. mine was around 7-10 yards. the bull went 40 yards and was done. i think that is the only way possible to hit both lungs, the heart, liver and guts all at once. the bull i shot that way was walking right at me starting at 40 yards and i just couldnt take it anymore when he got real close.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 04, 2011, 03:16:56 PM: Quote from: alwinearcher on May 28, 2011, 01:14:50 PM
Under 10 yards I will take a frontal shot on a elk..
Like someone said though, not many people practice at extremely close yardages. At 3 yards you need to be using your 60 or 70 yard pin, not your 20 pin.
:yeah:
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: dscubame on June 04, 2011, 07:31:09 PM: I shoot single pin. Never understood the reason behind multiple pins. I get the concept just not the reasoning.
Title: Re: Putting one in the chest
Post by: Lowedog on June 04, 2011, 11:25:47 PM: Quote from: dscubame on June 04, 2011, 07:31:09 PM
I shoot single pin. Never understood the reason behind multiple pins. I get the concept just not the reasoning.

You don't get the reasoning behind multiple pins?

It goes something like this. 20-30-40-50 yards. No guessing.