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Equipment & Gear => Guns and Ammo => Topic started by: rebal69972 on June 07, 2011, 11:05:47 PM

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Title: weapon for a child
Post by: rebal69972 on June 07, 2011, 11:05:47 PM

i have 4 children hunting this year 2 will be hunting elk 2 for deer and 1 for bear. i was thinking a 308 would be a good starter rifle for them. they will be sharing 1 weapon. i know shot placement is key but with there ages 9 10 11 and 12, i would like to get them something with a little margen for error and was big enough for elk and bear but small enough not to blow a deer to peaces and was wondering what you guys thought or what your children used. also i have a 35 cal but not being any bigger then a 30 30 i wasn't sure it would be enough to kill an elk or bear effectively. thank you for any input

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: bobcat on June 07, 2011, 11:14:42 PM

The 308 is what I would recommend. You just can't go wrong. There are "managed recoil" loads available for it too, which gives you a lot more versatility when it comes to kids. And there are lots of standard loads available, so you have plenty to choose from.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 07, 2011, 11:17:23 PM

25-06-270-7mm-08-308 and 30-06 would be the cal's to look at. For what you listed I would look at the 270 and 30-06. The other cal's are great as well and all will get the job done :tup:

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: rebal69972 on June 07, 2011, 11:28:14 PM

thanks guys i think tomorrow i start looking for a new rifle

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: bobcat on June 07, 2011, 11:44:28 PM

Good luck. I should say, kind of like what carpsniper said, the 270 and 30/06 would be great choices as well. If you find a good deal on the rifle you want, but they don't have it in 308, go ahead and get it in a 270 or 30/06, if that's what they have. The cartridge really isn't that important, it's the ammunition you use that really makes a difference.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: huntinhick on June 07, 2011, 11:55:13 PM

I looked at one of the CVA scouts in 7mm 08 at cabelas early this year and really liked it.  they also come in compact (youth) model in stainless with a fluted barrel with a weight of about 5 1/2 lbs.  they get good reviews and you can get an adult stock for it later.  This it the way I thinking of going for my two kids. 

carl

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Raul Duke on June 08, 2011, 07:13:41 AM

I have kids simialr to that age group (10G+12B) and shooting my 30.06 & .308 is a task for them. They can do it laying on the ground or off bi-pods. But in the feild that shot ain't always there.  Out of all MY rifles they like the .308 when using shooting sticks.
They have a .243 & 6mm of there own. 

My suggestion, barrow a buddys rifle(s) and let them try it out.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: predator guy on June 08, 2011, 07:25:04 AM

The .270 Winchester was the first rifle my Dad bought me when I was 13. I still have it and will never get rid of it.  ;)

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: D-Rock425 on June 08, 2011, 07:42:18 AM

7mm08 with a good bullet would do the trick just fine.  You could shoot a good 140 grain for everything.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: demontang on June 08, 2011, 07:54:23 AM

I would look toward the 06 case family. recoil from a 308 can turn a kid away from taking there time and shooting right. a 25-06, 270, or even the 243 with a good bullet is better suited for smaller shooters :twocents:

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Alchase on June 08, 2011, 08:59:29 AM

Both my boys grew up shooting a .243.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: sebek556 on June 08, 2011, 09:18:31 AM

One thing to look at when considering is the action, a semi naturaly absorbs more of teh recoil then other actions so if going for a larger caliber go for a semi.  If worryed about multiple shot then limit the rounds in the mag. Also I have a 25-06 ruger mark III and love this rifle, you know its low recoil when my 5 year old has shot it off bipods. With ballistic tips does massive damage, but stock is a little long for children. My wife is 5'2 and has a ruger gun site scout 308, awsome little rifle suprised at the low recoil but it is kinda heavy for its size. 

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: rebal69972 on June 08, 2011, 09:18:55 AM

not sure how to say or really as this but I'll try. the 243 and 270 are the same caseing as the 30 06 just a smaller projectile? will they be enough to put an elk or bear down with a decent blood trail? i know the 243 is a good deer gun but i have never shot eather of these rifles Ive used a 30 06 most of my life and dont really know much about other rifles and all i really know about my 30 06 is it kills at both ends

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Huntnphish on June 08, 2011, 09:28:13 AM

Quote from: D-Rock425 on June 08, 2011, 07:42:18 AM

7mm08 with a good bullet would do the trick just fine.  You could shoot a good 140 grain for everything.

 Not sure if you are aware of this or not Rebal but the .243, 7mm-08 and .308 are all the same case. 7mm-08 and .243 being necked down to accomodate smaller bullets.

 My 12 year old daughter shoots a Ruger M77 youth model in 7mm-08 with 140 Noslers, is very accurate with it and has no problem packing it around. The recoil is light enough for her to shoot and not flinch, which is very important for young hunters starting out. You don't want them developing bad habits like anticipating the recoil.
 

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: dscubame on June 08, 2011, 09:29:09 AM

I would be interested in the general consensus of the .243 for elk.  I talked my self into buying a .308 for my nine year old using the low recoil rounds that are available but now I have changed back to the .243 again.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Huntnphish on June 08, 2011, 09:32:00 AM

Quote from: dscubame on June 08, 2011, 09:29:09 AM

I would be interested in the general consensus of the .243 for elk.  I talked my self into buying a .308 for my nine year old using the low recoil rounds that are available but now I have changed back to the .243 again.

 Why not bridge the gap with the 7mm-08?

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Alchase on June 08, 2011, 09:32:15 AM

I have seen many elk, and deer taken with a .243.
It kills them fine.
 

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: pianoman9701 on June 08, 2011, 09:33:39 AM

I love the subject title of this thread, "Weapon for a Child". I'm just picturing a CA transplant seeing this post and losing his/her mind immediately, requiring hospitalization and extensive therapy. I do love HW.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: dscubame on June 08, 2011, 09:37:49 AM

Quote from: pianoman9701 on June 08, 2011, 09:33:39 AM

I love the subject title of this thread, "Weapon for a Child". I'm just picturing a CA transplant seeing this post and losing his/her mind immediately, requiring hospitalization and extensive therapy. I do love HW.

lol

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: GoldTip on June 08, 2011, 10:02:04 AM

Quote from: Alchase on June 08, 2011, 09:32:15 AM

I have seen many elk, and deer taken with a .243.
It kills them fine.

I have seen the same as well, but all in the hands of long time hunters with many, many kills under their belts and the nerves it takes to make only perfect shots.  Personally unless you have harvested many animals under many conditions, I think using a 243win on elk is irresponsible if you are a new shooter/hunter.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: jackmaster on June 08, 2011, 10:27:46 AM

i also agree a 243 is a little light for a young hunter, my son has used his 30-06 since he was 11, it isnt to much gun for a kid if you get them the right kind but i do know that the first deer he shot would have never went down with a 243, you gotta remember the oh *censored* factor when a kid is drawing down on his animal for the first few years, hell i still get the oh *censored* factor before i shoot

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: D-Rock425 on June 08, 2011, 12:21:54 PM

Quote from: Huntnphish on June 08, 2011, 09:32:00 AM

Quote from: dscubame on June 08, 2011, 09:29:09 AM

I would be interested in the general consensus of the .243 for elk.  I talked my self into buying a .308 for my nine year old using the low recoil rounds that are available but now I have changed back to the .243 again.

 Why not bridge the gap with the 7mm-08?

:yeah:

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: rock on June 08, 2011, 03:52:42 PM

338-06 would work  :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL: :IBCOOL:

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: bobcat on June 08, 2011, 06:36:37 PM

Quote from: demontang on June 08, 2011, 07:54:23 AM

I would look toward the 06 case family. recoil from a 308 can turn a kid away from taking there time and shooting right. a 25-06, 270, or even the 243 with a good bullet is better suited for smaller shooters :twocents:

Why do you say that? The 30-06 class of cartridges are BIGGER than the 308. The 30-06 recoils more than the 308. Cartridges that are based on the 308 case are the 243 Winchester, the 260 Remington, the 7mm/08, and the 338 Federal. Cartridges that use the 30-06 case are the 25-06, the 270 Winchester, the 280 Remington, the 338-06, and the 35 Whelen.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: wadu1 on June 08, 2011, 06:53:53 PM

Also look at the 6.5 X 55 Swed; good all around and mild recoil more like a 22-250,  :twocents:

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Jamieb on June 08, 2011, 07:28:59 PM

I'd buy a 7mm-08 and use a load with 120gr.ttsx's

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Huntnphish on June 08, 2011, 07:43:39 PM

Quote from: bobcat on June 08, 2011, 06:36:37 PM

Quote from: demontang on June 08, 2011, 07:54:23 AM

I would look toward the 06 case family. recoil from a 308 can turn a kid away from taking there time and shooting right. a 25-06, 270, or even the 243 with a good bullet is better suited for smaller shooters :twocents:

Why do you say that? The 30-06 class of cartridges are BIGGER than the 308. The 30-06 recoils more than the 308. Cartridges that are based on the 308 case are the 243 Winchester, the 260 Remington, the 7mm/08, and the 338 Federal. Cartridges that use the 30-06 case are the 25-06, the 270 Winchester, the 280 Remington, the 338-06, and the 35 Whelen.

 :yeah:

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: chrisb on June 08, 2011, 07:56:15 PM

308 is a good all around gun for everything from yotes to bear/elk (presuming black bear) and the ammo is widely available and afforable.

However i'd recommend thinking longer term for them and getting something they can use as adults as well so i'd say either a 338 lapua mag or 375 H&H :o

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: coyotewallace on June 08, 2011, 08:08:36 PM

Quote from: Jamieb on June 08, 2011, 07:28:59 PM

I'd buy a 7mm-08 and use a load with 120gr.ttsx's

 :yeah:
thats what I done for my daughter who is now 13, I bought her the Browning X-Bolt Micro Midas and I would do it all over again without a doubt. This to me is the perfect set up for youth or smaller adult(she may never need another rifle). I put the Leupold FX-II 6x36 on with Talley light weight rings. Spent a little cash but hey you get "ONE" first rifle. The next one she gets she can buy!!!

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Jamieb on June 08, 2011, 08:59:33 PM

I think the 7-08 is way under rated. It might be good for kid/small adults but it still works fine for larger adults too.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on June 08, 2011, 09:12:47 PM

Quote from: Jamieb on June 08, 2011, 08:59:33 PM

I think the 7-08 is way under rated. It might be good for kid/small adults but it still works fine for larger adults too.

  Yes I love this gun .. 7mm 08 is a sriously awesome cartridge... and it drops some sheet !!! 140 GR BULLET FUSION if you like factory ammo ... awesome groups and awesome knock down power on deer .....or elk or bear at reasonable rangers...

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: bobcat on June 08, 2011, 09:29:36 PM

7/08 is good, but no better than the 270 Winchester that's been around since 1925!

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 08, 2011, 09:36:16 PM

Quote from: bobcat on June 08, 2011, 09:29:36 PM

7/08 is good, but no better than the 270 Winchester that's been around since 1925!

2 of my favorite calibers right there!

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: demontang on June 09, 2011, 07:43:36 AM

Its funny that a 30-06 kicks hard compared to a 308 :dunno: there is only 2ftlb of recoil energy difference shooing a 165 bullet in a 7.5lb to 8lb rifle but both are over the normal comfort level of 15ftlb and 10fps recoil. I have shot a 10lb 308 that hurt me where my 9.5lb .338 win didnt so your stock shape and fit is part of the story too.

Dont forget to look at the 257bob too.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: quadrafire on June 09, 2011, 08:20:53 AM

I'll throw my  :twocents: in the pot. I haven't seen mentioned the 7x57 mauser.
Kinda skimpy on factory ammo, but shoots really well with the core-lock 140's.
My young son shoots this, but I will be taking it away before long. I want it for myself. recoil is really minimal.

Oh and if the kids haven't been through hunters ed. They will get engrained in them it is a firearm and not a weapon :chuckle:

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: hoytem on June 09, 2011, 10:21:16 AM

Quote from: Huntnphish on June 08, 2011, 07:43:39 PM

Quote from: bobcat on June 08, 2011, 06:36:37 PM

Quote from: demontang on June 08, 2011, 07:54:23 AM

I would look toward the 06 case family. recoil from a 308 can turn a kid away from taking there time and shooting right. a 25-06, 270, or even the 243 with a good bullet is better suited for smaller shooters :twocents:

Why do you say that? The 30-06 class of cartridges are BIGGER than the 308. The 30-06 recoils more than the 308. Cartridges that are based on the 308 case are the 243 Winchester, the 260 Remington, the 7mm/08, and the 338 Federal. Cartridges that use the 30-06 case are the 25-06, the 270 Winchester, the 280 Remington, the 338-06, and the 35 Whelen.

 :yeah:

My dad's .308 hurts ten times more than my .300 win mag.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: jackmaster on June 09, 2011, 12:16:25 PM

if your worried about the kick then get a semi automatic all the recoil goes into ejecting the round, my son shoots a savage 30.06 in a feather weight and it doesnt bother him at all and its a bolt action

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: bhylton on June 09, 2011, 01:16:09 PM

i started hunting at 9yrs with a model 88 winchester in 308. shot a bunch of blacktails and whitetails with 150gr nosler ballistic tips and they all had short blood trails "none" shot from 15yds - 274yds. still hunt with the same rifle shooting 165gr nosler accubonds. reciol is not bad and the model 88 is a hard kicking gun. devistating on elk and bear both. still more than enough for deer. i realize bear are a tough animal, but remember, if you in washington, most bears killed are prob 150-180lbs or less.  so you dont need anything outstanding to take one down. bullet selection is prob more important

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Curly on June 15, 2011, 05:38:32 PM

Recoil chart: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm)

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: quadrafire on June 15, 2011, 05:48:31 PM

Quote from: Curly on June 15, 2011, 05:38:32 PM

Recoil chart: http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm (http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm)

Maybe he needs the .460 wby mag. Geez. that would hurt!!!!

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: hookr88 on June 19, 2011, 02:18:33 PM

I bought my son a Tikka T3 lite in 7mm-08 for his 12th b-day. He loves it. Now that schools out if you're interested we could meet at the Renton Fish and Game Club and you and your kids could try it out. Just pm me. Brian

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: carpsniperg2 on June 19, 2011, 02:26:19 PM

Quote from: hookr88 on June 19, 2011, 02:18:33 PM

I bought my son a Tikka T3 lite in 7mm-08 for his 12th b-day. He loves it. Now that schools out if you're interested we could meet at the Renton Fish and Game Club and you and your kids could try it out. Just pm me. Brian

Great offer :tup: Also a great gun and great cal :IBCOOL:

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: huntnfmly on June 19, 2011, 02:42:02 PM

my daughters shoot a ruger 257 roberts with a sims recoil pad.Fits them real well

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: rebal69972 on June 23, 2011, 02:47:12 PM

thank you all for the input. i ended up getting them a rem 700 sps compact in 308 with a recoil pad. they seem to be able to shot it very well and doesn't kick hard enough to make them flinch

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Old Wanderer on July 30, 2011, 12:53:45 AM

I just posted a rifle for sale that was modified just for this purpose. I had a 5' 100# girlfriend that wanted to go hunting with me. I took a Model 70 270, shortened the stock, added a KDF recoil reducer, and had a gun with a kick like a 223, good ballistics, and you a little person could spend the whole day at the range shooting and to get the flinches.

http://seattleguns.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=49985 (http://seattleguns.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=49985)

I bought an after market stock so it would fit normal size people so I have both stocks along with the gun for sale.

This gun will work for deer and elk. I took down a running horse at 150 yards,,,,folded him right up. (It was my horse, and he was just a rank stud that had irritated me for the last time by chasing some people in my house). I owned about 50 horses at that time. Shot coyotes over his carcase for the next few weeks.

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: ICEMAN on July 30, 2011, 06:32:08 AM

A little late here but, I feel that one of the factors to consider is how well they shoot the gun. I started both my kids with a .243...  Nice lightweight "youth" rifle with a smaller stock, lighter weight gun. They both shoot it well now, but the first year my daughter even found this gun a bit heavy for her (at age 11...) So I feel this does play into the equation.
 
Let's face the real issue, MONEY. For the deer, the .243 is great, not many argue this. But, for elk....many feel it is too small, I tend to agree. If you were wealthy you would probably buy two calibers?  :chuckle:
 
When my kids transition to elk hunting, I will probably step them up to a .270

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: Wazukie on July 31, 2011, 07:42:14 AM

I am late on this buy, I like my old 30-30 Winchester the best.  Not as fast, not as hard hitting, but it takes down anything I have ever shot with it.  My son is hoping to get his first bear with it this year.  He can shoot 1.5" groups with it at 100 yrds open sighted.  Not to bad for a 70 years old lever gun.  Just make sure they shoot real well with what you bought.  Like anything instinct is you best bet when it comes to making the shot.  See the animal, know where to shoot, and then shoot without much thought (instinctive action)

Title: Re: weapon for a child
Post by: KenPCPilot on August 01, 2011, 01:11:40 AM

I BOUGHT A REMINGTON 700 VTR IN .308 FOR MY 12 YEAR OLD.  IT IS NICE AS IT HAS A MUZZLE BREAK ALREADY MACHINE IN FROM THE FACTORY.  I PUT A BLACKHAWK ADJUSTABLE FOR LENGHT OF PULL STOCK WITH RECOIL REDUCING SPRINGS.  HE SAYS HE FEELS THE RECOIL BUT DOESN'T COMPLAIN ABOUT IT.  HE THINKS IT IS PRETTY LOUD SINCE IT HAS A MUZZLE BREAK.  I LIKE IT AND IT SHOOTS LIKE A *censored* CAT.  .308 IS NICE BECAUSE AMMO IS FAIRLY CHEAP AND PLENTIFUL.  I JUST BOUGHT 250 ROUNDS FOR $96.00 ON LINE.   I AM HAVING SOME ISSUES WITH SCOPE MOUNTING THAT I ANTICIPATE I WILL FIND A SOLUTION FOR BUT AS FAR AS KID GUN HE CAN GROW WITH THIS IS A NICE OPTION