Post by: Intruder on June 14, 2011, 12:50:39 PM
1. Compound bow (Hoyt AlphaMax)
2. Shaft length 28.5" (excluding broadhead & nock)
3. Achieve a FOC of 20% or >
4. Abowyer Wapiti 175 Grain Single Bevel Broad Head
5. Total arrow weight (broadhead/inserts/shaft/etc) of > = 600grns
Any info regarding shaft selection, tuning, fletching, inserts, even alternate broadheads would be appreciated.
Post by: jackelope on June 14, 2011, 12:58:36 PM
Post by: Intruder on June 14, 2011, 01:01:02 PM
Todd_ID is your guy here...he's used these methods and is fluent. You might try a search on here for more info because I know he had a thread on here at one time. If he is at work, it may be a few days before he sees this.
Already pinged him :).... thnx.
Post by: Camp David on June 14, 2011, 01:18:02 PM
My :twocents:. 1. I also have a Alpha Max. Jury is still out on how much i like it. The cams are fairly radical which causes the arrow to jump up at the end of the draw. Still can't get it to shoot as well s my other Hoyt. My arrows are cut to the length that allows a broad head to clear my rest. You can have the broad head in front of or behind the front of the riser depending on your rest. You never mentioned arrow spline. With that heavy broad head make sure that you match you arrow spline to match the bow draw weight. With the wrong spline, you will never be able to get your arrows to shoot good groups expecially with broad heads. I have no experence with the Abowyer Wapiti broadhead. The important thing with shooting a accurate broad head is a well tuned bow. Your on the right track with determining FOC, but make sure you make sure that the arrow spline is correct and the bow is tuned correctly. I guess that your not looking for arrow speed as much as down range energy with a 600 gr arrow.
Post by: jackelope on June 14, 2011, 01:28:52 PM
Scroll down, there's lots of studies posted here from Dr. Ashby. I'm guessing Intruder's already seen this but for those who haven't...
Read on.
Post by: whacker1 on June 14, 2011, 02:43:41 PM
http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx (http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx)
Scroll down, there's lots of studies posted here from Dr. Ashby. I'm guessing Intruder's already seen this but for those who haven't...
Read on.
Wow - Very interesting level of detail and testing, but expensive . $109 for a three pack of the Ashby single bevel?
Post by: Todd_ID on June 14, 2011, 02:47:07 PM
Post by: Todd_ID on June 14, 2011, 02:48:26 PM
There's plenty of good broadheads though that fit the requirements. Mine are Grizzly heads at like $23 per 6.http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx (http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx)
Scroll down, there's lots of studies posted here from Dr. Ashby. I'm guessing Intruder's already seen this but for those who haven't...
Read on.
Wow - Very interesting level of detail and testing, but expensive . $109 for a three pack of the Ashby single bevel?
Post by: Button Nubbs on June 14, 2011, 02:55:40 PM
Post by: whacker1 on June 14, 2011, 02:59:34 PM
There's plenty of good broadheads though that fit the requirements. Mine are Grizzly heads at like $23 per 6.http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx (http://www.alaskabowhunting.com/Dr.-Ed-Ashby-W26.aspx)
Scroll down, there's lots of studies posted here from Dr. Ashby. I'm guessing Intruder's already seen this but for those who haven't...
Read on.
Wow - Very interesting level of detail and testing, but expensive . $109 for a three pack of the Ashby single bevel?
How much does the arrow weigh?
Post by: RadSav on June 14, 2011, 08:15:12 PM
Post by: Snapshot on June 15, 2011, 08:29:30 AM
Post by: Snapshot on June 15, 2011, 08:35:54 AM
Post by: Snapshot on June 15, 2011, 08:38:37 AM
There's plenty of good broadheads though that fit the requirements. Mine are Grizzly heads at like $23 per 6.:yeah:
Post by: ribka on June 15, 2011, 08:59:12 AM
There's plenty of good broadheads though that fit the requirements. Mine are Grizzly heads at like $23 per 6.:yeah:
Grizzly good heads. Takes awhile to get the hang of sharpening them
Post by: RadSav on June 15, 2011, 04:35:47 PM
In regards to fletching for Intruder I did not mention "Huge" fletching just good sized fletching. You can definately go smaller with feathers and you also want to have a good flying bare shaft before fletching. But remember, conditions in the field are usually filled with obsticles beyond those you will find on the range. The large FOC will definately help eliminate a good number of issues you will encounter, but correct fletching will add additional consistancy and security in the field.
Always good to error on the side of too much rather than not enough. I would venture to think that is the goal of shooting the Ashby concepts/method, isn't it?
Post by: bow_hunter44 on June 20, 2011, 08:45:13 AM
I'm looking for input from those of you who have experience using the concepts/methods of Dr. Ashby. First, let me say that I am not looking to start a debate or looking for reasons not to adopt Dr. Ashby's methods. What I am looking for is recommendations or tips regarding a setup for the parameters I'm outlining below:
1. Compound bow (Hoyt AlphaMax)
2. Shaft length 28.5" (excluding broadhead & nock)
3. Achieve a FOC of 20% or >
4. Abowyer Wapiti 175 Grain Single Bevel Broad Head
5. Total arrow weight (broadhead/inserts/shaft/etc) of > = 600grns
Any info regarding shaft selection, tuning, fletching, inserts, even alternate broadheads would be appreciated.
Being able to meet all of the above criteria is a bit difficult. That heavy of an arrow with a FOC > 20% is tough. To get close you will have to get a heavy insert. Brass inserts are available at Three Rivers Archery (and most likely other places as well) in 50 and 100 grain. Also, there are weight adapters available that screw into the back of an aluminum insert. The 'problem' with them is that they are farther back in the arrow making a high FOC more difficult to achieve.
Making a few assumptions (65 lb draw, 29" draw) you can get close with a .300 spine arrow. However, as you increase draw weight, the spine of the arrow becomes insufficient - even with .300 spine. A FMJ will get you close in arrow weight but the FOC is only slightly above 17%, an ACC (3-71) is closer in FOC (19%), but only weighs 535 grains. The above is with a 50 grain insert. To accomplish what you are after would need around 100 grains of insert. With that much weight up front you would have to turn your bow down or the spine of the arrow would be too weak. At 60 lbs the spine of a .300 a 28.5" arrow would work. The FMJ would weigh 644 grains and have a FOC of 19.6%, while the ACC would weigh 587 grains and have a FOC of 21.5%. BUT you would have to turn your bow down to 60 lbs. This would be with Blazer vanes and no wrap. The FOC could be bumped a bit with feathers, but that changes the spine of the arrow, which in turn changes that how much draw weight can be used....
All of this stuff depends on draw length, draw weight, ATA of your bow, shaft length, wrap weight, fletching weight, nock weight, d-loop weight, if you have a brass nock set or not, if you have silencers on the string.........