Hunting Washington Forum
Big Game Hunting => Elk Hunting => Topic started by: bowhuntersd on June 25, 2011, 03:34:37 PM
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So I heard it again, the Margaret and Toutle going to be a general season unit next year. Also the state is going to be going away with the East/West elk tags. I've heard this for a few years now but nothing ever happens. I guess its just wishful thinking.
Has anyone else heard this?
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I doubt they will ever combine the East and West tags... If they do, they willl for sure change the hunting dates.
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So I heard it again, the Margaret and Toutle going to be a general season unit next year. Also the state is going to be going away with the East/West elk tags. I've heard this for a few years now but nothing ever happens. I guess its just wishful thinking.
Has anyone else heard this?
Where are you getting this info?
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So I heard it again, the Margaret and Toutle going to be a general season unit next year. Also the state is going to be going away with the East/West elk tags. I've heard this for a few years now but nothing ever happens. I guess its just wishful thinking.
Has anyone else heard this?
I hope not.
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-Ive never heard that
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I'm gonna have to raise the :bs: on this one.
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Its just the same rumors I've heard floatting around the last couple years.
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What and lose all those special permit ap fees ? Naw....
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If they do, I know where I'll be next opener... But I'd call BS too.
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What and lose all those special permit ap fees ? Naw....
:yeah:
Its all about the greenbacks!
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What and lose all those special permit ap fees ? Naw....
Open it all up and charge us $1,500.00 for a hunting license plus tags. That would be a WDFW tactic I wouldn't put past them. But boy would I miss throwing the big Pitty Party for myself every year in June. I look forward to it oh so much :'(.
I too would have to say :bs: on the rumor mill.
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:mor: What cluster f^%k elk seasons would be. :twocents:
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I heard the toutle and margaret was seriously considering going general by a biologist. With the size of the herds they would go general.
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From what I've heard these are just ideas for the scoping surveys for the season setting process for the next three year period. The surveys are supposed to be sent out to randomly selected people in the next few months.
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They would stand to lose a lot of revenue if they did. Unless WeyeCo will make up the difference. Its was part their idea to increase the tags in their for damage to the tree farm. I heard this about 15 years ago and here we are.
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It's practically a general season now, with the number of permits they issued this year.
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According to WDFW at the last meeting I attended the herd has allot more animals than they thought.
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Well Access is very limited....and they have to have a place for the wolves.. i've had permits for both units and think they'er over rated. Not my first choice when putting in for trophy units.
East/west? I never could figure out how they could justify that with the highest population on the west side and most of the land on the east side? Most the west side is privet timber land and closed most the year. :twocents:
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i have heard that the plan is to make margret and toutle genaral tag and make the lewis river the special permit unit. also they are going to push back opening day archery by a day and take away a day on the tail end. you never know........
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Yeah i heard the coweeman in going permit only also... :bs:
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These ideas went out last year in a survey:
Make one of the two permit units general and leave the Lewis as is.
Make Lewis permit only and the other two general.
Leave as is.
I think I voted for option one but I think there needs to be a plan not just a change :)
Fulla
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If this really is the case, I'm just glad I got drawn for my Toutle permit this year. I don't understand 90% of the decisions the WDFW makes anyway.
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The few people from the WDFW I've talked to didn't have an exact answer about this. My suggestion is if this is the case they need to impliment some new draw units now not following the change. Why would someone put in for a draw on a unit they hunted the previous year during general season. Just my :twocents:
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Thats just a bad idea..all the way around.
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Sounds like a good idea to me. Maybe the one other guy that hunts our groups area will go to one of those units and leave all the bulls to us! :chuckle: I know where I won't be if that happened...
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The wolves are now down there, so why not give the hunters a shot at harvesting some before they get decimated.
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Its a great idea....leave that portion of the Toutle running from the South Fork of the Toutle river north across the state land to the mud flows special permit, and open up more of the Loo Wit to permits also. The Toutle is a big unit with most of it being closed to camping and one hell of a hike to get to if gates are closed. The state land is where most of the big bulls are shot in the Toutle unit and making the South fork of the Toutle river the boundary keeps some permit hunting and is an easy border. So much funner for me.....but its just a dream. And on another note, poachers run rampant across the Toutle its too big to patrol and the only thing that will stop them is other hunters.
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If they open those units to regular hunting I will be as far away from there as possible, and for those of you who would go- better put on some body armor! It will be a war zone, have fun with that. By the way I think it's a terrible idea, more people will have to put in for the other few permit bull units that are on the west side.
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Stupid idea...even for a rumor.
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How about this- instead of making those two units a general season hunt, make ALL westside units permit only, just like Margaret and Toutle. :dunno:
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I doubt they will ever combine the East and West tags... If they do, they willl for sure change the hunting dates.
:yeah:
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It is going to be interesting to see where this ends up. My opinion is that it will follow the path of the highest revenue generator for the state. If I had to bet, I would bet they increase permit levels rather than go OTC.
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Make the entire state Permit only..... Charge a lot to those that got selected....
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How about this- instead of making those two units a general season hunt, make ALL westside units permit only, just like Margaret and Toutle. :dunno:
Man i wish people would quit talking about making this state permit only, the game dept. I'm sure has thought about this. We have enough animals to have over the counter hunting, it's working the way it is. Of couse you all know I hate the point system.
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I would rather hunt every year than do a statewide permit!
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Man i wish people would quit talking about making this state permit only, the game dept. I'm sure has thought about this. We have enough animals to have over the counter hunting, it's working the way it is.
You think so? Look at the success rates. It averages about 5%. So only 1 out of 20 hunters kills an elk each year, in the general seasons. Pretty poor if you ask me.
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Man i wish people would quit talking about making this state permit only, the game dept. I'm sure has thought about this. We have enough animals to have over the counter hunting, it's working the way it is.
You think so? Look at the success rates. It averages about 5%. So only 1 out of 20 hunters kills an elk each year, in the general seasons. Pretty poor if you ask me.
IMHO... "Poor" would truly be to NOT be able not able to get out with FAMILY (especially our youth)and Friends once or twice a year EVERY year!
On the bright side, it would give our youth more time to lazy up around their techno-gadgets!
Get my drift??
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Man i wish people would quit talking about making this state permit only, the game dept. I'm sure has thought about this. We have enough animals to have over the counter hunting, it's working the way it is.
You think so? Look at the success rates. It averages about 5%. So only 1 out of 20 hunters kills an elk each year, in the general seasons. Pretty poor if you ask me.
So you would rather have 1 out of 20 get to hunt, and 100% success rate ?
The thing is, we are already at a "permit only" with otc for those that want to hunt, but only have limited success.
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If they make this state permit only for deer and or elk, poaching will increase big time. At least for a short time.
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It's funny to me how many other states can have permit only hunting but people think it won't work here. (works just fine in Oregon)
And, chances are, people would still get to hunt every year. Maybe not deer AND elk every year, but one of them. People can also go to deer and elk camp every year, even without a tag, and help others who do have tags.
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My buddy in Prineville draws a local tag about once out of every 2-3 years. He said that it isn't bad for an old guy that isn't into it as much anymore but for someone who lives to hunt it sucks.
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I definitely see both sides of the issue. I do appreciate the fact that I can hunt every single year in this state, for both deer and elk. But I also think I'd be willing to hunt just one of those each year, if the hunting was that much better. I just see this state's so called "management" of our deer and elk as a complete joke. What sort of control do they have on the number of animals taken each year? They don't. Unlimited numbers of tags and people can hunt anywhere they want.
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What and lose all those special permit ap fees ? Naw....
Open it all up and charge us $1,500.00 for a hunting license plus tags. That would be a WDFW tactic I wouldn't put past them. But boy would I miss throwing the big Pitty Party for myself every year in June. I look forward to it oh so much :'(.
I too would have to say :bs: on the rumor mill.
Maybe they will open it all up but we will have to pick our gmu and put in for the tag??? :dunno:
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Everyone by he's enough already about not getting selected. Yeah let's make it permit only so people from other states will start applying. Come on guys we hunt every yr for the love of the outdoors.
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If they make this state permit only for deer and or elk, poaching will increase big time. At least for a short time.
I would like to see some statistics to back that up.
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I definitely see both sides of the issue. I do appreciate the fact that I can hunt every single year in this state, for both deer and elk. But I also think I'd be willing to hunt just one of those each year, if the hunting was that much better. I just see this state's so called "management" of our deer and elk as a complete joke. What sort of control do they have on the number of animals taken each year? They don't. Unlimited numbers of tags and people can hunt anywhere they want.
I am right there with you. I would trade deer hunting and elk hunting each year for a great longer season better animals and chance for success. I already hunt so many things that I cant find enough time to get out there anyways..between, turkeys, geese, ducks, deer, elk, bear and fishing it becomes hard to find time for all species as it is.
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I would rather hunt every year than do a statewide permit!
:yeah:I think there are a lot of lazy hunters in this state and that is a good thing. If everyone hunted as hard as some of us I think their might be an impact on the numbers of animals. I don't think the blacktail have any problems hiding from lazy hunters, and to not be able to hunt them everyear would be a travesty. Also the elk on the west side are just harder to hunt with all the cover so I would expect a low harvest report.
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I definitely see both sides of the issue. I do appreciate the fact that I can hunt every single year in this state, for both deer and elk. But I also think I'd be willing to hunt just one of those each year, if the hunting was that much better. I just see this state's so called "management" of our deer and elk as a complete joke. What sort of control do they have on the number of animals taken each year? They don't. Unlimited numbers of tags and people can hunt anywhere they want.
They control harvest by limiting length of season, and timing. That is why success rates are low.
In order to get better success rates, you apply for permits (extended season, better timing, etc..)
What some seem to be missing, WE ARE A "PERMIT ONLY" !!, and OTC at the same time
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If they make this state permit only for deer and or elk, poaching will increase big time. At least for a short time.
Ya think so? I don't think the 19 out of 20 guys who don't kill elk every year are going to suddenly start poaching just because they don't get a tag this year.
I agree whole heartedly with Bobcat, the state should go to every other year on elk tags. 50% less hunters in the woods and 50% less pressure on the animals. Better escapement means higher numbers of animals and over time more and more encounters each of those years you do get a tag. Numbers of special permits for each unit would go up to do higher animal numbers. 50% less competition each year in those premium units for the tags. I just don't see the down side, other than not having an elk tag each year, and I would gladly give up elk hunting in it's current state in this state every other year for all those perks I just listed.
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On the bright side, it would give our youth more time to lazy up around their techno-gadgets!
That and it would be another step toward phasing out hunting in this state RUN by wolf huggers
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If they make this state permit only for deer and or elk, poaching will increase big time. At least for a short time.
Ya think so? I don't think the 19 out of 20 guys who don't kill elk every year are going to suddenly start poaching just because they don't get a tag this year.
I agree whole heartedly with Bobcat, the state should go to every other year on elk tags. 50% less hunters in the woods and 50% less pressure on the animals. Better escapement means higher numbers of animals and over time more and more encounters each of those years you do get a tag. Numbers of special permits for each unit would go up to do higher animal numbers. 50% less competition each year in those premium units for the tags. I just don't see the down side, other than not having an elk tag each year, and I would gladly give up elk hunting in it's current state in this state every other year for all those perks I just listed.
:yeah:
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I would hate for this state to become permit only. Elk and deer hunting seasons are the focal point of my year. When I'm not out hunting, I am drooling to be able to get back out there. If I do not have that right every year, I would be seriously depressed. I agree that there are way too many people out there hunting and way too many out there who don't move more than 100 yards from their vehicles, but whatever, I try to get as far back into the woods as physically possible. The success rates may not be that high, but I have been doing just fine. Plus, it's not always about the kill, but about the time and enjoyment spent enjoying one of the oldest pasttimes. I am strongly against making it a permit only state. I do believe the state mismanages our money and game, but turning it into a permit only state is not the correct answer.
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i would hate to see those units open for a general season, if the herds are to big give out more permits :twocents:. i like to be able to drive places and see some critters without getting out of the truck all the time, its a great place to take kids. thats where my old man took me and showed me how to call in bulls when i was a lil guy and i see people still doing that with their kids today. i havent been there a few years, but i'll be there with the fam this year. my dad and sis drew cow tags, cant wait to help them fill their tags
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If they make this state permit only for deer and or elk, poaching will increase big time. At least for a short time.
Ya think so? I don't think the 19 out of 20 guys who don't kill elk every year are going to suddenly start poaching just because they don't get a tag this year.
I agree whole heartedly with Bobcat, the state should go to every other year on elk tags. 50% less hunters in the woods and 50% less pressure on the animals. Better escapement means higher numbers of animals and over time more and more encounters each of those years you do get a tag. Numbers of special permits for each unit would go up to do higher animal numbers. 50% less competition each year in those premium units for the tags. I just don't see the down side, other than not having an elk tag each year, and I would gladly give up elk hunting in it's current state in this state every other year for all those perks I just listed.
Hell the tribes would be with you guys on this, they would be tickled pink to have 50% less non natives in the woods!!! heck yea more for them!!
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If they make this state permit only for deer and or elk, poaching will increase big time. At least for a short time.
Ya think so? I don't think the 19 out of 20 guys who don't kill elk every year are going to suddenly start poaching just because they don't get a tag this year.
I agree whole heartedly with Bobcat, the state should go to every other year on elk tags. 50% less hunters in the woods and 50% less pressure on the animals. Better escapement means higher numbers of animals and over time more and more encounters each of those years you do get a tag. Numbers of special permits for each unit would go up to do higher animal numbers. 50% less competition each year in those premium units for the tags. I just don't see the down side, other than not having an elk tag each year, and I would gladly give up elk hunting in it's current state in this state every other year for all those perks I just listed.
That would be too big of a pill to swallow for me. I just couldn't fathom not being able to hunt elk every year. There are plenty of Elk. half of the reason for such a low success rate is that people don't take elk hunting seriously. I couldn't stand not being able to hunt Elk when I know some guy has a tag in his pocket and isn't willing to do what it takes to get an Elk. I might not kill one every year but I get to HUNT them every year. After all it is about the hunt not the kill. :twocents:
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That would be too big of a pill to swallow for me. I just couldn't fathom not being able to hunt elk every year. There are plenty of Elk. half of the reason for such a low success rate is that people don't take elk hunting seriously. I couldn't stand not being able to hunt Elk when I know some guy has a tag in his pocket and isn't willing to do what it takes to get an Elk. I might not kill one every year but I get to HUNT them every year. After all it is about the hunt not the kill. :twocents:
I, as well, like the ability to hunt each and every year. If I do my part I can find and set my sights on a big mature Roosevelt each year. Not to mention my freezer is full year in and year out not every other year.
The thick coastal range makes escapement easy and many branched bulls make it through. I can remember when it was spike only around here and you had to work hard just to find a branched bull. I think I like seeing 2 to 3 branched bulls per herd and a couple spikes.
It becomes and argument of quality vs opportunity. I feel that I can have both, but I have to WORK for it.
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Man i wish people would quit talking about making this state permit only, the game dept. I'm sure has thought about this. We have enough animals to have over the counter hunting, it's working the way it is.
You think so? Look at the success rates. It averages about 5%. So only 1 out of 20 hunters kills an elk each year, in the general seasons. Pretty poor if you ask me.
May be only an average of 5% success rate statewide but that number is extremely skewed.
Let's break it down a little...
based off of a hypothetical number of 100 random OTC elk hunters statewide. Out of the 100 hunters 5 are successfull in harvesting an elk for our 5% statewide success rate. Probably 50% of those hunters hunt less than 2 days in the field (regardless of what they report) so we already doubled the success rate of the halfway serious hunters to 10% success rate. Probably another 25% of those 100 elk hunters either 1: never left the roads or 2: hunted less than 4 days in the field so now we have a success rate of 5 in 25 hunters or 20% success rate for people who actually "hunt"...seems pretty good to me.
To me it sure seems like the WDFW basically has it right in Permit east side and OTC west side (branch bull). If you put in the time this state gives ample opportunity. I dont really understand the argument of going to permit only when the timber co's are already bitching b/c the elk are destroying their properties.
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If they make this state permit only for deer and or elk, poaching will increase big time. At least for a short time.
Ya think so? I don't think the 19 out of 20 guys who don't kill elk every year are going to suddenly start poaching just because they don't get a tag this year.
I agree whole heartedly with Bobcat, the state should go to every other year on elk tags. 50% less hunters in the woods and 50% less pressure on the animals. Better escapement means higher numbers of animals and over time more and more encounters each of those years you do get a tag. Numbers of special permits for each unit would go up to do higher animal numbers. 50% less competition each year in those premium units for the tags. I just don't see the down side, other than not having an elk tag each year, and I would gladly give up elk hunting in it's current state in this state every other year for all those perks I just listed.
That is b/c you hunt the east side.
FACT= Washington state has two very different geographies (east and west of the cascades) causing two completely unique landscapes (one with escape cover and one without). They needed to be managed as such which is what WDFW did.
I think a great example that backs my argument is the Winston Creek unit. One (if not the) heaviest hunted units in the state with one of the highest harvest numbers in the state. Also one of the healthiest elk herds in the state. I dont understand the point of west side going permit.
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I would hate to only hunt every other year. I like to get away from most other hunters. Where I hunt, I see very few other elk hunters. It is thick brush and timber and I get to hunt every year. Getting one most years is just a bonus but the main thing is getting to hunt elk every year.
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I absolutely agree with both of AKBowman's posts! :tup:
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Im no poacher, but if the west side goes permit only I would be....I hunt every year and will until either the game population goes to hell or I die. Last year I got my bull(usually do in the general units) and could have killed a few small bucks too, but ate my deer tag just hoping one of my friends or family could get one. The time spent out there with them is priceless. Memories made every year that last a life time. As long as game numbers are good there is absolutely no reason for permitting.
The toutle unit is big and last year with that muzzleloader tag I couldn't believe the numbers of people out there just thumping around the woods, made the permit that much less "Special". It was a real eye opener, thought there would be far less people out there, they weren't elk hunting though, just out hoping to pop a grouse, blow a bugle and get an answer, get out of the house and look at what this state has to offer. Opening up the toutle to no permit gets more people out in the woods with kids and friends, just having a good time regardless if they make a kill or not. That generates moneys for the state too. Being able to drive amelessly through the woods hop out of the rig and hunt where you want too is awesome.
The animals being poached now in the Toutle aren't being reported....I know there is poaching, we seen plenty of game come out of there, but there were only so many tags and so many animals reported. Never seen a warden there and never stopped anybody with an elk in their truck to see if they had a permit either. Trophies are overrated, the toutle has a great elk population, give it to the general hunters. The Coweeman and Winston elk numbers are doing good and they are general hunting always have been.
If you try hard enough here in Washington theres a darn good chance you'll put some of the best meat possible on the table...yours...and if not I bet you had a good time anyways or didn't really try. You can do it every year if you want. And thats all I have to say about that.
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Im no poacher, but if the west side goes permit only I would be....I hunt every year and will until either the game population goes to hell or I die. Last year I got my bull(usually do in the general units) and could have killed a few small bucks too, but ate my deer tag just hoping one of my friends or family could get one. The time spent out there with them is priceless. Memories made every year that last a life time. As long as game numbers are good there is absolutely no reason for permitting.
The toutle unit is big and last year with that muzzleloader tag I couldn't believe the numbers of people out there just thumping around the woods, made the permit that much less "Special". It was a real eye opener, thought there would be far less people out there, they weren't elk hunting though, just out hoping to pop a grouse, blow a bugle and get an answer, get out of the house and look at what this state has to offer. Opening up the toutle to no permit gets more people out in the woods with kids and friends, just having a good time regardless if they make a kill or not. That generates moneys for the state too. Being able to drive amelessly through the woods hop out of the rig and hunt where you want too is awesome.
The animals being poached now in the Toutle aren't being reported....I know there is poaching, we seen plenty of game come out of there, but there were only so many tags and so many animals reported. Never seen a warden there and never stopped anybody with an elk in their truck to see if they had a permit either. Trophies are overrated, the toutle has a great elk population, give it to the general hunters. The Coweeman and Winston elk numbers are doing good and they are general hunting always have been.
If you try hard enough here in Washington theres a darn good chance you'll put some of the best meat possible on the table...yours...and if not I bet you had a good time anyways or didn't really try. You can do it every year if you want. And thats all I have to say about that.
:tup:
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The only people who will benefit from a State draw will be the Indians.
The only people who have benefited from the spike elk hunt
are the Indians.
win-win for them
lose-lose for us
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:yeah:Both of 'em :yeah:
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I would hate for this state to become permit only. Elk and deer hunting seasons are the focal point of my year. When I'm not out hunting, I am drooling to be able to get back out there. If I do not have that right every year, I would be seriously depressed. I agree that there are way too many people out there hunting and way too many out there who don't move more than 100 yards from their vehicles, but whatever, I try to get as far back into the woods as physically possible. The success rates may not be that high, but I have been doing just fine. Plus, it's not always about the kill, but about the time and enjoyment spent enjoying one of the oldest pasttimes. I am strongly against making it a permit only state. I do believe the state mismanages our money and game, but turning it into a permit only state is not the correct answer.
:yeah:
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I absolutely agree with both of AKBowman's posts! :tup:
:brew: I'll drink to that!
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The only people who will benefit from a State draw will be the Indians.
The only people who have benefited from the spike elk hunt
are the Indians.
win-win for them
lose-lose for us
As much as I like the idea of going to permit only hunting for deer and elk, this is the one reason I'm not so sure it would be a good idea. Maybe it's better to mis-manage our game just so the indians can't have even more of a free for all, like they already have in this state.
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I wonder if anyone has called Dave Ware at the fish and game? He is in charge of the permits and should know if any of this is true. Just a thought, and sorry if someone already asked this.
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I wonder if anyone has called Dave Ware at the fish and game? He is in charge of the permits and should know if any of this is true. Just a thought, and sorry if someone already asked this.
Why do that? :yike: Its easier and more exciting to jump to conclusions! :bdid:
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My thought is it will be explored during the season setting process this summer/winter as the next 3 year package is due.
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I hope not, but I definitely would not put it past this state. WA game management sucks, so don't be suprised. They would lose a lot of revenue from the permits, but they would make up for it by doing something cool like raising taxes.
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I have talked with a couple of people about this too. The RUMOR is that Cabelas wants to start a guide service and hunt primarily Margaret ans Toutle. The only way for them to accomplish this is for Fish and wildlife to change the unit to a public unit and allow anyone to use it. I am sure cabelas has deep enough pockets to pay the way. Again this is only rumor and I think it is too far fetched, but I have been surprised before.
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Cabelas had the high lakes area listed on their website back when that area was put up for sale by Weyco.Probably where that rumor is coming from.
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The toutle and margret are over rated I live 10 miles from either unit... If ur looking to just kill an elk u will be happy but if your looking for a 300 i'n bull look else were cause they are few and i'n between.... Lots of 5 points same crappy genetics... I would like them to give out more tags if they would like to thin the Hurd.... I think we all should be able to Experance that unit at least once with little pressure before they make a pumpkin patch.... I Hurd rumors of planting wolves up there but I don't know any truth to that.. Exept it's a bad idea :bdid: hunting on the west side has became over populated... I don't care what unit your i'n u put 1000 ppl driving up and down the rd finding a good bull will be tuff...
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The toutle and margret are over rated I live 10 miles from either unit... If ur looking to just kill an elk u will be happy but if your looking for a 300 i'n bull look else were cause they are few and i'n between.... Lots of 5 points same crappy genetics... I would like them to give out more tags if they would like to thin the Hurd.... I think we all should be able to Experance that unit at least once with little pressure before they make a pumpkin patch.... I Hurd rumors of planting wolves up there but I don't know any truth to that.. Exept it's a bad idea :bdid: hunting on the west side has became over populated... I don't care what unit your i'n u put 1000 ppl driving up and down the rd finding a good bull will be tuff...
I too agree with you that those Units are over rated, but there is still some really great bulls running around in there. As far as the wolves I heard something about this around the begining of the year, the WDFW and the Feds. where looking as that as an option to cull the herd around the MT. As far a I know they didn't go through with the pant do to public dislike.
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They should have gave 100 permits to the youth hunters insted of putting them in the quality section. That would allow some youths to draw tags before they are ineligible. :twocents:
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If they do, I know where I'll be next opener... But I'd call BS too.
Me too..... In the Coweeman.... Laughing at the zoo! :chuckle: :chuckle:
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If the fish and game wanted to reduce the population just hand out 500 cow tags for a hunt in January. That way the cow hunters do not mess with the quality bull hunts.
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I hope the units do go general. It sure would take some pressure off my hunting areas
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I heard the toutle and margaret was seriously considering going general by a biologist. With the size of the herds they would go general.
This will never happen. Here is why...
1) They would lose too much money in special permits
2) If they want to reduce the elk population, then they will issue more special permits
3) Look at other areas across the state for Big Game. Take Marengo GMU 163 for deer. 20 years ago they gave out 150 doe tags. In the late 90's to present they have been giving out 600-1000 tags to reduce the population. Now this area is screwed and will take years to rebuild. They have spent years rebuilding the Toutle, Coweeman, Loo Wit, etc since St Helens blew. The last thing they are going to do is go general. Every elk hunter in WA would hunt there, as most know the Toutle is a pull up and shoot hunt if you are drawn. If would be a war if it were to go general. The Toutle is designed to be a trophy bull area, like Yakima if you are drawn.
I call BS!
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Here is the link to the WDFW 2012-2014 season setting Survey. It's been up for awhile and is over now. You could have taken it on line.
http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2012-2014/season_options_survey_results_summary.pdf (http://wdfw.wa.gov/hunting/regulations/seasonsetting/2012-2014/season_options_survey_results_summary.pdf)
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I filled out this survey as well, and it seems I was in the minority on alot of things.
But back to the posts for the state to go special permit, I like the quota system that Idaho has for Nonres hunters. I think its smart first come first serve only allow so many hunters in each area to contol the harvest # if you really love to hunt and are dedicated you will be buying your licence and tags the first day they are eligable, and that would stop the day before season walmart parade guys buying every box of shells on the shelf no matter what it is and going out road hunting shooting everyhting that crosses the road. JMO
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The main issue I have with the limited tag sales idea is the active duty military guys that would be deployed for the first few months of the tag sales and then not get a hunting season.