Hunting Washington Forum

Other Hunting => Bird Dogs => Topic started by: BIGINNER on July 14, 2011, 07:53:51 AM

Title: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: BIGINNER on July 14, 2011, 07:53:51 AM: i have a question for all you pointer guys.

do you train your dog to hold point, or stay at "woah" untill you shoot the bird, or do you train your dog to hold point untill you give it the command to flush?

i'm not too knowledgable on how its done, but after lots af reading and research, i found that basically in America, for cometitions you would typicaly train your dog to stay at "woah" untill the bird is shot, but in europe and austalia,..ect. they typically train the dog to hold point untill the shooter is ready and gives the command to flush,..

what do you guys prefer? i honestly like the idea of having the dog flush on command,.. but my dog can really do both,..
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: BIGINNER on July 14, 2011, 08:50:42 AM: Quote from: shorthair-on-point on July 14, 2011, 08:33:07 AM
Both. I would start with having the dog hold until you flush the bird. Once the dog is seasoned with the whoa command and does not break point then introduce a release command. You are going to need both in the field. When your dog sticks a bird in corn, cattails or in a wet spot you aren't going to want to go in there after it so you will need to release your dog. :twocents:

i agree, that pretty much sums up how i train my dog, he will hold however long i want him to, he jumps when i give him the release command.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: carpsniperg2 on July 14, 2011, 09:30:48 AM: My dogs flush my birds. Just have to make sure the dog works inside your range. I don't ever let my dog get past about 25 yards.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: Rhinoron247 on July 14, 2011, 11:39:15 AM: Both depending upon the terrain and the surroundings, like other dogs and or shooters. If there are multiple birds I have a hard time breaking the point with my male. He locks down and is there till a flush. Nice to have options for every situation.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: CP on July 14, 2011, 11:51:34 AM: Quote from: carpsniperg2 on July 14, 2011, 09:30:48 AM
My dogs flush my birds. Just have to make sure the dog works inside your range. I don't ever let my dog get past about 25 yards.
:yeah:
My dogs are retrievers; they can’t be bothered with stopping to point. If the birds don’t fly they will be caught live.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: 10Key on July 14, 2011, 12:19:15 PM: I am a rookie with only a season of hunting behind a pointer under my belt. It seems to me, that most of what you describe is instinctual, meaning commands are not always necessary. Initially, my pup just ran around blindly, chasing every scent imaginable, kicking up birds along the way. It wasn't until he got around wild birds, specifically wild quail that he figured it out. Once that happened, he would go on point and freeze until I came up and flushed the bird or birds (wild pheasants are a different story). We do not use any specific commands for this, he just does it. When I flush from his point, typically he would go ape-nuts, and chase until I hit the bird or bird.

So to answer your question, I do the flushing and the dog follows up my shot with a retrieve (sometimes). For me, a pointing dog needs to hold point as they typically cover a ton of ground and you have to be able to catch up to make the flush and get off a shot.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: RC3 on July 14, 2011, 05:48:57 PM: I do the flushing........sometimes I will relocate her but once she has it pinned again she will lock up on point, I don't let her do the flushing.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: Shannon on July 14, 2011, 06:12:29 PM: I flush the bird always but I do trials and the dog flushing is a major no no. If I didn't do trials I would train the dog to flush. I am not sure if Carpsniperg2 has retrievers or pointers but if he has pointers he keeps within 25 yards that is a complete waste of a pointer. He should just get a lab.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: steen on July 14, 2011, 09:50:41 PM: We have setters and we flush. We want them holding point til we come upon her. Ruby hunts long and will hold til we get there. Many times we send her into the trees and we stay out til she points a bird. She will move on if the bird does not hold which is fine for us. It's a great workout.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: BIGINNER on July 15, 2011, 08:15:07 AM: i don't compete, so i love having the option of letting the dog flush if its too thick for me. but i strictly make sure he flushed only on command.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: Curly on July 15, 2011, 08:48:43 AM: Quote from: Shannon on July 14, 2011, 06:12:29 PM
I flush the bird always but I do trials and the dog flushing is a major no no. If I didn't do trials I would train the dog to flush. I am not sure if Carpsniperg2 has retrievers or pointers but if he has pointers he keeps within 25 yards that is a complete waste of a pointer. He should just get a lab.

Yeah, I suspect he was talking about his labs............ maybe he will clarify. :dunno:
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 15, 2011, 04:00:40 PM: Quote from: Shannon on July 14, 2011, 06:12:29 PM
I flush the bird always but I do trials and the dog flushing is a major no no. If I didn't do trials I would train the dog to flush. I am not sure if Carpsniperg2 has retrievers or pointers but if he has pointers he keeps within 25 yards that is a complete waste of a pointer. He should just get a lab.

Just came in from working sit to flush with a few trainers and a Canadian National Judge. In their test, they have an upland series like the HRC. Rules for upland retriever is to keep dog in control within gun range which is supposed to be 30 yards. Shot a bunch of pheasant today from wingers. Even in controlled situations, allowing a dog to break on a bird flush and grab it is dangerous. Especially if you hunt with a lot of novice shooters or clients. A dog who can jump 6' in the air and snatch a pheasant runs a high risk of packing around some unwanted lead.

It is good to train on sit to flush if you don't have a pointer. For the dogs own safety at minimum.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: jetjockey on July 17, 2011, 06:41:58 AM: I agree with happy. I don't want a dog jumping up to try and catch a bird while Im trying to shoot it. I also don't want a dog breaking on a bird that flushed. Birds don't always jump clear of dogs and fly 15 feet off the ground (especially Georgia quail, where I live). A dog that isn't fully broke will cost you a bird now and then because you will have to hold the shot. I want my pointing dog to point, while I flush. Ive had to flush some birds in nasty briars, but Id much rather do that then accidentally have a dead dog. I hunt, and my dog runs in trials. In the trials, the dog has to be completely broke. If I didn't trial, I "might" be willing to hunt a dog that broke at the shot, but that still creates problems if a single jumps, and then the dog accidentally flushes birds still holding when it breaks after the single. Having a fully broke pointing dog just makes it a lot easier IMO.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: HoofsandWings on July 17, 2011, 10:14:17 AM: While it is nice for me to flush the bird, I wouldn't get many birds. The places I hunt, the birds are extremely wild and will run and run. One year, about 10 minutes before a group of hunters and their pointers came within sight, about 30 cocks flushed and flew away. When the hunters went by, they said they had not seen many birds and had not shot any.
Now I know some species of birds hold until flushed. And when I hunt in below zero conditions, the pheasants hold pretty well. In Chelan, quail held, while in Walla Walla, they ran and flushed.
The chukar I have hunted seem to hold when not in the rocks, where they run.
Title: Re: do you flush the bird, or does your dog?
Post by: Happy Gilmore on July 18, 2011, 07:57:54 AM: Quote from: HoofsandWings on July 17, 2011, 10:14:17 AM
While it is nice for me to flush the bird, I wouldn't get many birds. The places I hunt, the birds are extremely wild and will run and run. One year, about 10 minutes before a group of hunters and their pointers came within sight, about 30 cocks flushed and flew away. When the hunters went by, they said they had not seen many birds and had not shot any.
Now I know some species of birds hold until flushed. And when I hunt in below zero conditions, the pheasants hold pretty well. In Chelan, quail held, while in Walla Walla, they ran and flushed.
The chukar I have hunted seem to hold when not in the rocks, where they run.

any dog who holds a point and is experienced with moving to match wild birds is the only way to hunt a pheasant around the skyrockets. Those birds flush about the time they hear your car door shut.