Post by: Rob on July 19, 2011, 05:06:26 PM
I am looking for something that shoots in the 1/2 to 3/4 MOA range so I can do some long range shooting out to 1,000 plus yards. i.e. this would not be a field/hunting gun.
Questions to consider:
-Custom build from scratch, customize a stock rifle, or take it right out of the box as is?
-Make/Model
-Trigger?
-Break or no break?
-Stock recommendation?
-Bipod options?
-bedding?
-Other accessories/options?
Post by: chongo469 on July 19, 2011, 08:08:32 PM
Post by: G.R.K on July 19, 2011, 08:13:23 PM
Trigger-Jewell
Barrell-Bartlein 5R 28" with custom contour 1" muzzle dia.
Stock-Manners MCS-T4
Muzzle brake-Defensive edge
Badger Ordanace detachable mag
Bipod-Harris HBRS with S lock
:bfg:
Post by: addicted on July 19, 2011, 08:22:53 PM
Custome would be nice i guess. the biggest benefit would be a stock that is angled and cut to fit you. there are all sorts of beefy actions to start with.
If i were to buy it outright. TRG42 for sure. my buddy shoots sniper comps with one of these and i get to play with it at the range. It's almost boring to shoot because it hits the bullseye every time. his is a TRG22 btw.
http://www.eurooptic.com/sako-trg-42-338-lapua-green-fixed-stock-phosphate-metal-finish-jrsm235.aspx (http://www.eurooptic.com/sako-trg-42-338-lapua-green-fixed-stock-phosphate-metal-finish-jrsm235.aspx)
If I were on a budget, I would go with a savage. Forged action, great history of accuracy, and their 338lap's come with a muzzle brake.
there is no optics debate. S&B PMII 8)
Post by: JimmyHoffa on July 19, 2011, 08:51:31 PM
Post by: jackelope on July 19, 2011, 09:17:50 PM
Post by: jjhunter on July 20, 2011, 09:07:19 AM
Action- Lawton or Borden
Trigger-Jewell
Barrell-Bartlein 5R 28" with custom contour 1" muzzle dia.
Stock-Manners MCS-T4
Muzzle brake-Defensive edge
Badger Ordanace detachable mag
Bipod-Harris HBRS with S lock
:bfg:
I like everything here, but I'd change out the action for a BAT and the stock for a mcmillan.
Post by: addicted on July 20, 2011, 09:18:19 AM
Action- Lawton or Borden
Trigger-Jewell
Barrell-Bartlein 5R 28" with custom contour 1" muzzle dia.
Stock-Manners MCS-T4
Muzzle brake-Defensive edge
Badger Ordanace detachable mag
Bipod-Harris HBRS with S lock
:bfg:
I like everything here, but I'd change out the action for a BAT and the stock for a mcmillan.
does bat make a 338 lapua sized action?
Post by: jjhunter on July 20, 2011, 09:25:03 AM
Post by: Rob on July 20, 2011, 12:41:07 PM
Post by: rbros on July 20, 2011, 03:12:10 PM
I would steer clear of the Lawton actions for now as they have had some issues since Barney died a couple years ago. Hopefully they will turn it around, but have left a bad taste in a lot of people mouth.
I have done many different blueprints, but the one that I build the most is the following:
R Bros Rogue Action
Broughton custom contour, 9.3 twist, 30" finish, custom fluting
Manners T2 stock
Seekins Detachable Mag
Defensive Edge 4 port Brake
40 MOA Rail
Jewell Trigger
Cheekpiece
Weighs 14lbs with a NF ready to hunt
Will shoot well under 1/2 moa. 338 Edge runs 300gr SMK's at 2900, 338 Lapua runs 300 SMK's at 2820ish range.
The ones in the back are the first designs before we had our own actions made. They are built on Remingtons....still consistent under 1/2 moa rifles.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi104.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm175%2F7mmam%2FEdgegroupphoto002.jpg&hash=d482e1feb1cc8f7891a2110a8e108b884bfde5ce)
Post by: whacker1 on July 20, 2011, 03:21:34 PM
Defensive Edge makes a 338 Edge, but they get to be on the heavy side. What are you looking for this gun to weigh?
Post by: MtnMuley on July 20, 2011, 03:23:29 PM
Post by: whacker1 on July 20, 2011, 03:32:56 PM
If you are going to go custom, you might consider a 338 Edge as well. Cheaper to shoot, cost a little less to build, and has more performance.
I would steer clear of the Lawton actions for now as they have had some issues since Barney died a couple years ago. Hopefully they will turn it around, but have left a bad taste in a lot of people mouth.
I have done many different blueprints, but the one that I build the most is the following:
R Bros Rogue Action
Broughton custom contour, 9.3 twist, 30" finish, custom fluting
Manners T2 stock
Seekins Detachable Mag
Defensive Edge 4 port Brake
40 MOA Rail
Jewell Trigger
Cheekpiece
Weighs 14lbs with a NF ready to hunt
Will shoot well under 1/2 moa. 338 Edge runs 300gr SMK's at 2900, 338 Lapua runs 300 SMK's at 2820ish range.
The ones in the back are the first designs before we had our own actions made. They are built on Remingtons....still consistent under 1/2 moa rifles.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi104.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm175%2F7mmam%2FEdgegroupphoto002.jpg&hash=d482e1feb1cc8f7891a2110a8e108b884bfde5ce)
what do your builds like this weigh in at?
Post by: Curly on July 20, 2011, 03:37:39 PM
Quote
Weighs 14lbs with a NF ready to hunt
Post by: rbros on July 20, 2011, 03:38:19 PM
Post by: whacker1 on July 20, 2011, 03:44:07 PM
From his post:QuoteWeighs 14lbs with a NF ready to hunt
Thank You. I missed it.
general area the Defensive Edge builds weigh in at 10-13 lbs in the Long action without the Scope depending on how you elect to have the build completed.
Post by: rbros on July 20, 2011, 03:49:07 PM
Post by: whacker1 on July 20, 2011, 03:51:00 PM
That is correct. Depending on configuration, the bare rifle can weigh 9-13lbs in normal hunting style configurations. Shawn and I have built Edges in about every configuration now. The ones that are most pleasurable to shoot will run in that 12.5-15lb range. The one I did at 10lbs was pretty violent!
Scar over the eyebrow violent? :chuckle:
Post by: rbros on July 20, 2011, 03:53:28 PM
Post by: addicted on July 20, 2011, 08:17:23 PM
Yep! A cheytac action as well. I've fondled them and they are thing of beaty. I got a BAT VR repeater. Amazing machining.
408 cheytac :drool:
doesnt get much more custom than needing special fancy bullets. :chuckle:
Post by: engelwood on July 21, 2011, 09:05:31 AM
If you are going to go custom, you might consider a 338 Edge as well. Cheaper to shoot, cost a little less to build, and has more performance.How much does one of those cost? Just curious. Thanks.
I would steer clear of the Lawton actions for now as they have had some issues since Barney died a couple years ago. Hopefully they will turn it around, but have left a bad taste in a lot of people mouth.
I have done many different blueprints, but the one that I build the most is the following:
R Bros Rogue Action
Broughton custom contour, 9.3 twist, 30" finish, custom fluting
Manners T2 stock
Seekins Detachable Mag
Defensive Edge 4 port Brake
40 MOA Rail
Jewell Trigger
Cheekpiece
Weighs 14lbs with a NF ready to hunt
Will shoot well under 1/2 moa. 338 Edge runs 300gr SMK's at 2900, 338 Lapua runs 300 SMK's at 2820ish range.
The ones in the back are the first designs before we had our own actions made. They are built on Remingtons....still consistent under 1/2 moa rifles.
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi104.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fm175%2F7mmam%2FEdgegroupphoto002.jpg&hash=d482e1feb1cc8f7891a2110a8e108b884bfde5ce)
Post by: jackelope on July 21, 2011, 03:13:58 PM
Quote
How much does one of those cost? Just curious. Thanks.
http://www.rbrosrifles.com/ (http://www.rbrosrifles.com/)
Post by: Rob on July 21, 2011, 05:11:47 PM
Now I am going to pine away for this rilfe for the next 4 months.
When I started this thread, I said I was not interested in calibers other than 338 Laupa, but I gotta say, I like the looks of that 338 edge. I'll need to look further into the ballistic tables.
Right now the Sako looks the most attactive to me based on features and costs. Price is not 100% of the deciding factor, but I'd like to keep the base rifle to around 3 to 3.5K total.
Post by: Rob on July 21, 2011, 05:22:45 PM
Post by: addicted on July 21, 2011, 08:14:52 PM
Post by: Curly on July 21, 2011, 09:19:44 PM
Quote
The new .338 Hybrid bullets should stabilize well with a 1:10″ twist at the velocities achievable with popular .338 magnum cartridges. However, according to Bryan Litz, Berger’s Ballistician, at extreme long ranges (beyond one mile), as the .388 bullet goes trans-sonic, it may need more spin. As the bullet slows down into the trans-sonic range, extra stability is required — something you get by spinning the bullet faster. So, for those guys planning to shoot at one mile or beyond, Berger recommends a faster twist-rate. The faster twist provides more spin-stabilization at very long ranges. But for 1000-yard shooting, you don’t need to be concerned about trans-sonic stability. As Bryan explains: “So as long as you keep your shots under 1 mile, the 1:10″ twist is plenty adequate.”
Post by: addicted on July 22, 2011, 01:05:50 AM
That edge looks like the way to go. I think there is only about a 3% capacity difference between lapua and edge and the edge can go on any magnum action.
I smell a build brewing.
savage-30inch-adjustable stock-mmmmm
1602 yard shot 338 edge (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NxRSNJkPQ4#)
Post by: Curly on July 22, 2011, 06:43:14 AM
What twist rate would folks get?
That rbros rifle, he said it is 9.3 twist. That sounds like what you'd want from what I've read.
Post by: Rob on July 22, 2011, 08:39:12 AM
Post by: rbros on July 22, 2011, 09:42:07 AM
Post by: Rob on July 22, 2011, 10:33:29 AM
Post by: yorketransport on July 22, 2011, 11:01:07 PM
I went through this a couple of months ago while trying to decide what gun to put under a Leupold Mk 4 6.5-20x that I aquired. I came to the conclusion that the 338 Lapua doesn't have the "wow" factor like it did a few years ago. I ended up going with a modified 375 RUM which I call the 375 Box Monkey Magnum :chuckle: (my company's name is Box Monkey Distribution Inc., that's where the name came from) It's basically a 375 RUM AI throated for the 350gr Sierra MK with the shoulder pushed forward .13". My logic is that you spend all the time and money to build a custom gun. Why not have a custom caliber as well? Just a thought.
Andrew
Post by: jeepasaurusrex on July 22, 2011, 11:37:20 PM
(https://hunting-washington.com/smf/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.downloadmunkey.net%2Fimages%2FM200.jpg&hash=f6ac62bcfaa00556c1fb6cfb922dc9a3a10f24c8)
Post by: Elk whack master on July 23, 2011, 12:27:23 AM
Post by: alwinearcher on July 23, 2011, 12:33:36 AM
I have never shot a lapua, but I dont think you can go wrong with the .338 Edge!
Post by: yorketransport on July 23, 2011, 07:34:33 AM
Whats the difference between all the differnt 338 brands. is it the bullet lenght or what? big price difference in 338 ammo. Looking into getting one so just started doing research on it. Sorry if this is a stupid question. :sry:
They all have different performance thresholds. Here's a general idea of what the different calibers will do with 300gr bullets based on printed load data:
338 Win Mag: 2400-2450fps
330 Dakota: 2500-2550fps
340 Weatherby:2550-2650fps
338 RUM: 2600-2650fps
338 Lapua: 2600-2675fps
338 Edge: 2800-2950fps
338/378 Weatherby: 2850-2950fps
Some of these can go faster when aggressively handloaded (the RUM, Weatherbys and Lapua), but in my experience these numbers are pretty average.
The Edge is the wildcat 338/300 RUM, so no ammo is avaliable. It seems to be more popular every year. It's sort of the economical alternative to the Lapua. You get the same performance using any standard action that can accept the RUM cartridges. The Lapua needs a larger bolt face, which is easy to do but does require extra $. Brass is less expensive for the RUM, but you are pretty much limited to Remington brass which isn't bad, but it certainly isn't up there with Lapua brand brass. :twocents:
The others can all be bought over the counter, but they'll cost you a premium price. Plan on paying nearly at least $75 a box for the Weatherbys.
Andrew
Post by: longrangekiller on August 19, 2011, 10:08:38 PM
Post by: high country on August 20, 2011, 01:31:29 PM
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 20, 2011, 01:37:05 PM
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 21, 2011, 08:32:52 PM
Post by: addicted on August 21, 2011, 10:58:41 PM
Post by: Rob on August 22, 2011, 10:20:14 AM
i like the sako 338 personaly
Why? What makes this your choice?
Post by: Rob on August 22, 2011, 10:21:26 AM
How about the desert tactical.... :tup:
Why? What makes this one stand out from others?
Post by: high country on August 22, 2011, 10:43:41 AM
Post by: Rob on August 22, 2011, 05:30:04 PM
Not trying to be illusive, but trying to figure out why some folks made decisions they have made in the past. That was the motivation behind posting the thread. That's why I have posted some follow up questions as I have. The rifles photos pictured are very nice, but without knowing the "why" behind how that rifle ended up with that person, it is just a pretty firearm.
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 22, 2011, 05:45:29 PM
I don't know what I want at this point, I'm trying to see what has been important to others in what they have-or would- do.
Not trying to be illusive, but trying to figure out why some folks made decisions they have made in the past. That was the motivation behind posting the thread. That's why I have posted some follow up questions as I have. The rifles photos pictured are very nice, but without knowing the "why" behind how that rifle ended up with that person, it is just a pretty firearm.
338 Lapua is very exspensive to shoot. Some of the other guys were shooting 300 win mags, exspensive again. 308 isn't too bad, I don't reload and you can find ammo at: www.tacticalammunition.com (http://www.tacticalammunition.com) One youngman was shooting a 30:06 too.
Post by: longrangekiller on August 22, 2011, 06:19:19 PM
Post by: Rob on August 22, 2011, 06:23:21 PM
I reload so the cost difference between a box of 308 and a box of 338 lapua is just a few dollars once the brass has been aquired. Not too worried about reloading costs-honestly when you reload it is not too big of a deal.
I know the 30.06/308/257 WBY Mag/1,000 other calibers can all reach out there. But I want to build a 338 Lapua, so I am interested in thoughts around what others have done with that platform and why. That said, the 338 edge is a comparable rifle and one I find equally interesting.
Post by: Rob on August 22, 2011, 06:24:51 PM
i like the sako because it didnt kill the wallet to bad and is a pretty damn good shooter. im sure they all are it just depends what u wanna shoot but campmeat is right u dont have to have a huge canon to shoot long ranges there are alot of other guns that will if u have the right optics
Cool, so you chose it for price point, and more or less OOB good shooter? Did you do any mods to it once you got it?
Post by: rbros on August 22, 2011, 06:25:39 PM
In order to get the most of out a Lapua, or any of the other choices really, is to go with a custom. With the Lapua, a .750 diameter bolt is really the way to go. Is it needed, no, but it raises the safety margin by a long shot. Look at the end of your Mag bolt face, now, cut that out another .050". That what is left over when you open the bolt for a lapua. (Another benefit of the Edge, uses a standard mag bolt face). 28-30" barrels will give you the most performance. Premium barrels will generally shoot better due to the quality of the barrels and the chamber being a tighter spec than factory. This assumes that the smith did his job in the barrel setup of course. Stocks are a matter of preference. I prefer vertical grip style stocks for long range hunting and shooting. They give me a more stable platform. My recomendation is to handle a few different stocks then make your choice on what fits you. That is what getting a custom is all about. You design the rifle to fit you and your needs.
Now, with that being said, although I hunt ALOT with my 338 Edge, it is more than needed to hunt long range. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything out to 1k with my 7 WSM using a 180 berger. It shoots well under 1/2 moa at that range and has plenty of energy. Our tactical match rifles are a 6mm wildcat I developed that shoots a 105 Berger at 3250fps. Over the last few years we have won every Long Range/Tactical match we have shot from Wyoming, Washington, Oregon, California. We have shot them out to just past a mile and not had any problems with hitting what we were aiming at. Its all about what you want to do. Remember you will shoot a rifle better that you are comfortable with.
Post by: longrangekiller on August 22, 2011, 06:35:01 PM
Post by: addicted on August 23, 2011, 06:46:09 AM
Reason: autoloading, 30 pounds,
optics: Schmidt&bender PMII with BORS
:drool:
Post by: CAMPMEAT on August 23, 2011, 07:03:07 AM
Post by: Rob on August 23, 2011, 01:56:25 PM
Any of the big 338's are expensive to shoot, the Lapua is just a little more due to the price of brass. If you don't reload, its the only way to get into the long range 338's.
In order to get the most of out a Lapua, or any of the other choices really, is to go with a custom. With the Lapua, a .750 diameter bolt is really the way to go. Is it needed, no, but it raises the safety margin by a long shot. Look at the end of your Mag bolt face, now, cut that out another .050". That what is left over when you open the bolt for a lapua. (Another benefit of the Edge, uses a standard mag bolt face). 28-30" barrels will give you the most performance. Premium barrels will generally shoot better due to the quality of the barrels and the chamber being a tighter spec than factory. This assumes that the smith did his job in the barrel setup of course. Stocks are a matter of preference. I prefer vertical grip style stocks for long range hunting and shooting. They give me a more stable platform. My recomendation is to handle a few different stocks then make your choice on what fits you. That is what getting a custom is all about. You design the rifle to fit you and your needs.
Now, with that being said, although I hunt ALOT with my 338 Edge, it is more than needed to hunt long range. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything out to 1k with my 7 WSM using a 180 berger. It shoots well under 1/2 moa at that range and has plenty of energy. Our tactical match rifles are a 6mm wildcat I developed that shoots a 105 Berger at 3250fps. Over the last few years we have won every Long Range/Tactical match we have shot from Wyoming, Washington, Oregon, California. We have shot them out to just past a mile and not had any problems with hitting what we were aiming at. Its all about what you want to do. Remember you will shoot a rifle better that you are comfortable with.
Very helpful info. on the 338 edge, how difficlut is the brass to make? what is the process?
Post by: Curly on August 23, 2011, 02:52:21 PM
Another good article for you: http://longrangeshooter.com/2009/01/the-338s-rum-lapua-and-edge/ (http://longrangeshooter.com/2009/01/the-338s-rum-lapua-and-edge/)
Quote
The biggest difference in my opinion between these cartridges is reloading cost. They’ll use around the same amount of powder, and the bullets are the same, but the brass is another story. Brass for the Lapua is commonly found for around $195 for 100pc. The 338 RUM, and 338 Edge (wich uses 300 RUM brass) can be had for around $80 for 100pc. This is a big difference in reloading cost, although a straight across comparison would probably not be fair to the Lapua. It’s quite likely that the Lapua brand brass (one of only two brands currently available for the 338 Lapua) would last a couple more firings compared to the others. It’s also notable that to build a rifle in 338 lapua a standard magnum bolt face would not work, requiring a little more work by your gun smith (my smith only charged me around $30 for this, but your mileage may vary). The 338 Edge definitely gives the most bang for your buck. Some claim the Lapua is more accurate. If this has any merritt, it’s likely due to higher brass quality available for the Lapua.
You need an expander....
http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/338-edge-dies-70452/ (http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f17/338-edge-dies-70452/)
Post by: Curly on August 23, 2011, 03:09:26 PM
These Redding Dies have a tapered expander button so you don't need anything special.
Quote
They have a 338 tapered neck sizing button already installed. No need to buy anything else, just apply a little Imperial Sizing Wax to the inside of the necks of your 300 RUM brass and run them up into the FL sizing die. That’s it, 338 Edge brass done.
Post by: rbros on August 24, 2011, 07:16:05 AM
Post by: alwinearcher on August 24, 2011, 10:57:51 AM
Any of the big 338's are expensive to shoot, the Lapua is just a little more due to the price of brass. If you don't reload, its the only way to get into the long range 338's.
In order to get the most of out a Lapua, or any of the other choices really, is to go with a custom. With the Lapua, a .750 diameter bolt is really the way to go. Is it needed, no, but it raises the safety margin by a long shot. Look at the end of your Mag bolt face, now, cut that out another .050". That what is left over when you open the bolt for a lapua. (Another benefit of the Edge, uses a standard mag bolt face). 28-30" barrels will give you the most performance. Premium barrels will generally shoot better due to the quality of the barrels and the chamber being a tighter spec than factory. This assumes that the smith did his job in the barrel setup of course. Stocks are a matter of preference. I prefer vertical grip style stocks for long range hunting and shooting. They give me a more stable platform. My recomendation is to handle a few different stocks then make your choice on what fits you. That is what getting a custom is all about. You design the rifle to fit you and your needs.
Now, with that being said, although I hunt ALOT with my 338 Edge, it is more than needed to hunt long range. I wouldn't hesitate to shoot anything out to 1k with my 7 WSM using a 180 berger. It shoots well under 1/2 moa at that range and has plenty of energy. Our tactical match rifles are a 6mm wildcat I developed that shoots a 105 Berger at 3250fps. Over the last few years we have won every Long Range/Tactical match we have shot from Wyoming, Washington, Oregon, California. We have shot them out to just past a mile and not had any problems with hitting what we were aiming at. Its all about what you want to do. Remember you will shoot a rifle better that you are comfortable with.
Good post Rbros!
I have a .338 edge and love it. My next rifle will be something lighter in a 7 WSM.. I think with those two rifles you have almost anything you want to do covered :twocents:
Post by: rbros on August 24, 2011, 11:47:12 AM
Post by: alwinearcher on August 24, 2011, 11:56:16 AM
They will definitely cover most needs for sure. If I had to pick two they would be the Edge and my 6mm. Although my WSM is growing on me and seems to be my new "go to" rifle. But then again, I am lucky to be able to play with a bunch of different stuff :)
(not trying to thread jack here)
What makes you choose the 6MM over the 270 or a 7MM?
Post by: rbros on August 24, 2011, 12:07:43 PM
Post by: alwinearcher on August 24, 2011, 12:36:36 PM
A berger 105 at 3250+ has the same energy or more as a 270 w/130gr and shoots flatter, cheats wind, etc at distance. Has less recoil and uses less powder as well. For an all around gun, the 7mm would have to be it, but the 6mm will handle everything from prairie dogs to large deer(and yes an elk has fallen to it as well), and the 338 can handle everything. Having shot deer and antelope out to 1k with the 6mm, I know what it is capable of. If you could only have one, it would be a 7mm for sure. Sorry for getting things off track.
Makes sense to me!
Post by: high country on August 24, 2011, 01:14:36 PM