Post by: Kain on August 03, 2011, 01:59:11 PM
Post by: DoubleJ on August 03, 2011, 02:15:11 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 03, 2011, 02:21:57 PM
Post by: wildmanoutdoors on August 03, 2011, 02:22:28 PM
It could be your release too. Not you. My old crappy Stinger was getting that way. Just got the Spotthog Wiseguy and wow is it smooth and light triggered. Like butter!
Post by: BLKBEARKLR on August 03, 2011, 02:22:36 PM
Post by: Kain on August 03, 2011, 02:31:13 PM
Get up close to a target like 3 yards, draw, close your eyes, put your finger on the trigger, slowly add pressure to the trigger(with a mix of back tension if you like) until it breaks. Do it about a million times. It WILL make you a better shooter.
Ill give that a shot. Im sure its me. Its just one of the bad habits I am fighting with.
Post by: pianoman9701 on August 03, 2011, 03:17:48 PM
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 03, 2011, 03:25:35 PM
Post by: alwinearcher on August 03, 2011, 03:29:05 PM
One thing I do quite a bit if I get punchy is draw back and aim and set my finger to shoot and aim for 20-30 seconds and then let down. More of an aiming drill. But punching is a form of and will lead to target panic. Aiming ans smooth pull through the trigger is key... also don't use the very tip of your finger. I shortened my release so that the trigger is inside the second bend from the tip... much less sensitive than the finger tip.
Aiming practice is good..
blind shooting (as mention before) is also good.
then when you put the two together you hope its still good..
Find someone who KNOWS what they are doing that is willing to help you.. thats always the best advice for shooting form issues :twocents:
Post by: carpsniperg2 on August 03, 2011, 03:53:28 PM
Post by: Kain on August 03, 2011, 04:08:02 PM
Post by: coachcw on August 03, 2011, 10:03:39 PM
Post by: Kain on August 03, 2011, 11:24:53 PM
set your finger and pull through it till it flys
I think I know what you mean by this. Just to see if I understand this is where you touch your finger to the trigger and instead of moving your finger you pull with your arm?
Post by: BULLBLASTER on August 04, 2011, 08:15:28 AM
pull wth your back.like you are standing back to a wall with your arms straight out sideways and pushing away from the wall with your hands... if that makes sense..set your finger and pull through it till it flys
I think I know what you mean by this. Just to see if I understand this is where you touch your finger to the trigger and instead of moving your finger you pull with your arm?
Post by: alwinearcher on August 04, 2011, 08:17:51 AM
Post by: wints13 on August 04, 2011, 09:00:16 AM
Post by: Camp David on August 04, 2011, 09:25:57 AM
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 04, 2011, 09:35:16 AM
Post by: Camp David on August 04, 2011, 09:51:34 AM
The "suprise release" is what you want. It shouldn't give you target panic. :twocents: :dunno:Agree. I practiced with a Carter 2 shot release that is designed to be back tension release (using a trigger finger). Tried the blind release, and suprise release with back tension and i was successfull (at times) by achieving a suprise release. But trying to hold on the target and anticipating the bow to fire; slowly worked it's way into target panic. Possibly my technique was wrong, but this was after i read a lot of articles and books on the subject.
Post by: mtbiker on August 04, 2011, 10:25:30 AM
The whole idea behind a back tension release is about aiming. That is, getting your mind off of conscientiously executing the shot by pulling the trigger while 100% of your mind is on aiming before, during, and after the shot. The "surprise" is a result of your mind not thinking about executing the shot through the trigger because it was completely focused on aiming. You have to move the trigger to execute the shot. This can be done indirectly (back tension) or directly by slowly applying pressure to the trigger (back tension does the same thing, but through a different muscle group). You can do the later and still get a surprise release due to the very slow application of finger pressure to the trigger. Think rifle shooting. You don't snatch the trigger. You slowly apply pressure until it breaks and there should be some level of surprise because there was no "NOW!" and expectation of a bang. Your mind was on aiming.
So, to get to a subconscious shot execution you need to train yourself through perfect practice. You know the correct saying, "Practice does not make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect". Blind bail shooting has been mention here as one way to focus on perfect form over-and-over, again. So, what I do is get to full draw with the pin in the target area. Check my form (grip, anchors, relaxation). Start floating the pin in a tight area over the target. A smaller target is better. For example, a 1" dot at 20 yards. I want to get to where I'm floating the pin in a very small, but consistent area over the dot. If I'm making erratic movements outside of a tight float area, then I'm not setup right (or just having a bad day). I re-check my body relaxation. If I can't get to a nice tight and consistent float, I let down. Once I do get to that nice float I tell myself to start that shot, which begins the very slow pull on the trigger. My mind immediately goes back to 100% focus on the target. I no longer see the pin because my focus has completely shifted to the 1" dot. I'm now relying on my mind to sub conscientiously make the necessary movements to get the pin on the dot. Eventually, the shot goes off and I should be surprised. If I'm not, then I know that I did not have 100% of my focus the dot. Also, if I find myself not still staring down that dot and holding the exact same form I had prior to the shot I know that my mind was not where it was suppose to be.
If this is practiced enough you will find that you no longer have to tell yourself to start the shot/trigger pull. You will naturally and sub conscientiously start it when you have found that sweet spot float and your focus moves from the pin to the target itself.
Post by: Kain on August 04, 2011, 10:52:02 AM
Post by: Instinct on August 04, 2011, 10:53:52 AM
Post by: mtbiker on August 04, 2011, 12:09:48 PM
Thanks guys. What you all have described is exactly what I keep falling back to. If I concentrate really hard I get a proper release but just when I think I have it I find myself punching again.
Both physical and mental relaxation is key. Blind bail shooting will help with relaxation because you don't see anything that will cause you to panick. Since you can't see anything you can visualize the perfect execution.
Post by: Camp David on August 05, 2011, 08:33:28 AM
Post by: mtbiker on August 05, 2011, 09:40:11 AM
MTbiker...good summary of everything I have learned....but still trying to perfect.
Yep, me too. I know what I need to do. I just need to commit the time and practice to turn it into consistent muscle memory. For me it's classic, "you get out of it, what you put into it".
Post by: colockumelk on August 05, 2011, 09:42:41 AM
Practice a Hard focus on a very small point on the target and hold it for a few seconds while your slowly applying pressure to the release. Try to avoid the "NOW" command when the sight pin is where you want it or it moves to the point you want to hit. This is when "punching" is most prevalent. Focus on the point...let the pin float around and apply pressure to the release. If you want to learn how to shoot using back tension I'd buy a back tension release that target shooters use. Learn to shoot it than go to a finger release for hunting :twocents:.
That's exactly what I did. The reason we "punch" the trigger is because we want to ensure the release is exactly at the moment that pin is exactly centered on the bullseye. Unfortunatley when we do this we are actually hurting our shot and we often pull the shot to one side or the other. When you concentrate on holding that pin as steady as possible on the bullseye (it will float around a bit) and having a nice steady release the shot will be withing a couple of inches every single time (depending on the range). Since I started doing this my shot groups have been cut in half.
Post by: CoachNemo on August 05, 2011, 11:29:32 AM
It was a great tip I got from Michael at Next Step Archery at Nock Point.
Post by: halflife65 on August 05, 2011, 11:48:26 AM
So, you have a piece of cord same as your draw length, (assuming right handed), hold one end in your left hand, make a loop or something on the end to attach your release, hold at full draw position and then just practice pulling the trigger (whatever method you use - trigger finger, back tension, etc.) and then just let the cord fall out of the release? Is that correct? Now that I wrote it out it seems pretty simple...
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 05, 2011, 12:12:47 PM
Post by: Camp David on August 05, 2011, 12:40:32 PM
I have been practicing at home with a piece of cord tied to my draw length and then I attach my release to it. Then I can "draw" and release for feel, without even using the bow. This has helped me tremendously on my trigger punch issue. I am much smoother now because of it.
It was a great tip I got from Michael at Next Step Archery at Nock Point.
I tried that for a while, but the tension on the bow is so much heaver. I "shot" the string well, but didn't see a lot of difference when i shot the bow.
Post by: total_intent2kill on August 05, 2011, 12:54:27 PM
Post by: Button Nubbs on August 05, 2011, 01:02:05 PM
Post by: halflife65 on August 05, 2011, 01:04:06 PM
Probably usually starts because you are trying to time your sight pin going over the target and you jerk on the trigger. Like a rifle, it doesn't take much of a mistake to throw your shot off.
This gets compounded in exciting situations, like hunting. A few years ago, I missed with a rifle because I just pulled up and started yarding on the trigger. I was able to make a whole lotta noise and the deer was relatively safe. Good lesson (although painful). I worked on that in the off season and don't do that.
The worst thing that happened to me is that I had done that the year before and it worked - I got the deer. Got lucky the first time, it induced me to skip steps the next year and it bit me in the long run. Keep proper form and everything will work out - either rifle or archery.
Post by: brianb231 on August 05, 2011, 01:52:23 PM
Let me know if it helps,
Brian
Post by: Kain on August 05, 2011, 02:21:56 PM
Just wondering (starting to shoot bow), what does he mean when he says "Punching the Release". Is it when you just pull the trigger really fast? :dunno:
Its kind of an exaggeration of what is actually happening but even a very subtle "jerk" or "now" release can throw off your shot. This can be amplified at longer ranges to be several inches off. My problem is kind of a "flinch" when I anticipate the shot. Some people call it "target panic". Doesnt mean Im actually freaking out. :chuckle:
Its the same exact thing when shooting a gun. Its the old saying: squeeze the trigger dont jerk the trigger. It is easy to say and to do if you concentrate but hard to make it a habit without thinking about it.
With a bow release it the difference between:
"Squeeze the release" and "begin squeezing the release".
Post by: outdoorstoreys on August 05, 2011, 02:46:50 PM
Any magic pills to cure this? :dunno: :chuckle: OK how about just some advice.
The big issue i see with peoples shooting habits are; consistency, perfect practice and getting rid of the word squeeze.
If you squeeze the trigger you are directing force left or right. Try saying press over and over in your head as you make you shot. Also-- you want a surprise break. That means you know your going to fire/release, but you want the actual fire/release to be a suprise. so the next time your shooting try saying, press press press press press as you slowly press the trigger to the rear. :twocents:
Post by: CoachNemo on August 05, 2011, 03:08:11 PM
It has helped me a lot and my groups have gotten quite a bit tighter, which I feel is a direct result of doing this nightly for the last 4 weeks.
The wife cracks up every time I put the release on and start aiming my cord at one of the cats :IBCOOL:
Post by: total_intent2kill on August 05, 2011, 03:56:47 PM