Post by: kalamasasquatch on August 15, 2011, 12:38:57 AM
Post by: RadSav on August 15, 2011, 02:18:22 AM
That same butcher used to say that almost 50% of elk he received had some sort of bone sour when brought in just quartered. If temperatures were over 80 degrees the amount of loss from sour increased greatly. He said in 35 years of butchering elk he could count on one hand how many soured when boned out immediately. That was good enough for me.
Plus, it makes one heck of a difference packing out. The wife and I can get a cow out in just three pack loads most of the time. That's leaving nothing, but a little neck meat behind. Two packs if I'm hunting with my buddy Channon. Big bulls usually take one more 25-30 pound pack on the wife and one more for me with horns, cape and back straps. She's a pack mule for a 5'2 squaw.
Post by: Elknut1 on August 15, 2011, 05:36:49 AM
ElkNut1
Post by: Swannytheswan on August 15, 2011, 05:42:03 AM
Post by: boneaddict on August 15, 2011, 06:15:12 AM
Quote
Heat isn't the criteria for us as much as the distance & ruggedness of terrain, that's what dictates to us whether we bone out or not! We use various ways to keep meat cool on even the hottest days.Exactly.
Post by: arrowflinger on August 15, 2011, 06:41:38 AM
Post by: D-Rock425 on August 15, 2011, 06:55:26 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 15, 2011, 07:12:46 AM
Post by: halflife65 on August 15, 2011, 07:28:25 AM
Post by: bullcanyon on August 15, 2011, 10:00:37 AM
Post by: kalamasasquatch on August 15, 2011, 11:11:06 AM
Post by: boneaddict on August 15, 2011, 12:06:07 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on August 15, 2011, 12:17:53 PM
Post by: STIKNSTRINGBOW on August 15, 2011, 01:11:05 PM
1.)Find it, 2.) pictures, 3.) skin off, 4.) bone out, 5.) cool, 6.) hang, 7.) carry.
Never easy to haul an Elk, but why carry bones when you dont have to ?
:twocents:
Post by: WSU on August 15, 2011, 02:18:30 PM
Post by: bobcat on August 15, 2011, 02:33:03 PM
Quote
Do the leg bones really weigh that much? Seems to me the ease of carrying with the bone in is worth the extra 5 or 10 pounds per quarter.
:yeah:
There may be different definitions of "boned out". I usually like to leave the leg bones in the quarters. But what I always leave in the woods is the rib cage/back bone. Actually my front "quarters" are not really quarters at all. I cut off each shoulder and that's my front quarter. They don't weigh much. If it's a really big elk and/or a really long way out, then I may completely bone out the hind quarters. But otherwise I think they're easier to deal with if left on the bone.
Post by: RadSav on August 15, 2011, 03:07:11 PM
Do the leg bones really weigh that much? Seems to me the ease of carrying with the bone in is worth the extra 5 or 10 pounds per quarter.
That might be a pack design issue. For me the weight distribution and height of the load improves with boned out meat. I feel I can carry a lot more weight if it is loaded tight against my back and doesn't catch branches above my head. Us guys that have had back surgery don't duck under those low branches quite as well as you young bucks. And to me the difference between a load 60# and one 70# is huge. I complain enough just getting my fat arse back to the truck.
Post by: high country on August 15, 2011, 03:12:30 PM
Post by: boneaddict on August 15, 2011, 03:41:35 PM
Post by: kalamasasquatch on August 15, 2011, 03:44:45 PM
Faster they cool the better regardless of temp. Late season, if I can get them in the truck whole in short order I will rush them home to bone unless we are more than a couple hours from the shop. Sort of a clean-vs-cooling dance. Early season don't even gut them. Dorsal skin and debone right there. Drop game bags of boned meat immediately in creek if one is close by. Used to worry about the water and bacteria but my old butcher said better cool and wet than hot and dry. Once they're hanging in the cooler the water will dry up quickly. Never had a poor tasting elk since we started doing things this way.
That same butcher used to say that almost 50% of elk he received had some sort of bone sour when brought in just quartered. If temperatures were over 80 degrees the amount of loss from sour increased greatly. He said in 35 years of butchering elk he could count on one hand how many soured when boned out immediately. That was good enough for me.
Plus, it makes one heck of a difference packing out. The wife and I can get a cow out in just three pack loads most of the time. That's leaving nothing, but a little neck meat behind. Two packs if I'm hunting with my buddy Channon. Big bulls usually take one more 25-30 pound pack on the wife and one more for me with horns, cape and back straps. She's a pack mule for a 5'2 squaw.
i have heard of soaking meat in cold flowing water before, but i have also heard that the water will cause it sour very fast also. who else pts their meat in water?
Post by: boneaddict on August 15, 2011, 03:50:01 PM
Post by: Instinct on August 15, 2011, 03:50:16 PM
Post by: RadSav on August 15, 2011, 04:23:58 PM
Interesting enough, I find it easier to carry and transport bone on, and I also think it cools better than a whole bag of meat hanging. I know I packe dmy moose out bone on, and they make an elk look like bambi. I'm a big guy though.
We do use a lot of Alaskan game bags for that reason. I agree a big bag of meat does hold heat more than a spread out quarter with ball socket peeled out a little. I never carry the large moose/elk quarter bags except one for the cape. Most bags are small deer quarter sized and they seem to cool quite well.
I always worried about bacteria and the water. Seemed to me as a kid I read a book warning of such. But the butcher we used when I was guiding (Oregon Coast) really stressed cool and not to worry about it if it was a flowing stream and gut piles were down stream. Somewhere around 50 elk and I've yet to loose a single pound from sour. Could just be lucky though I guess. All I know for sure is the elk meat we eat around the Fry household is some darned good tasty stuff!
I know a buddy of mine killed a nice bull on Stampede Pass on a 90 degree day. He watched it go down, immediately quartered it, only had to pack 300 yards to the road and then drive to Issaquah to the butcher. He lost about 10# on the hind quarters of that elk to sour. Knowing him he may have stopped at the bar for a drink or two before getting there but I know for sure he lost meat.
Another thing we are also careful to avoid is laying meat directly on the bed of the truck where heat from the exhaust can get it hot. We try to tie the bags to the gun rails and allow more air to move around the bags. I know Larry D. Jones has a plywood deck above the wheel well on his truck so the quarters do not lay flat on the truck bed.
Post by: high country on August 15, 2011, 05:51:02 PM
Post by: Alan K on August 15, 2011, 05:57:15 PM
This is if I'm hiking/biking in. If I'm somewhere I can get the truck to, I use the rope! :drool:
Post by: RadSav on August 15, 2011, 06:04:46 PM
Post by: Instinct on August 15, 2011, 06:32:04 PM
Post by: RadSav on August 15, 2011, 06:53:28 PM
The ravens hate us :chuckle:
Post by: HOYT6.0 on August 15, 2011, 06:58:03 PM
The only moose meat I lost was the one that accidentally fell into the lake/stream when I was trying to port my boat over the beaver dam and lost one quarter into the water. I think it got bacteria from the water. I have done a bear in a garbage bag, and immersed it into the water without it getting wet. Normally I wouldn't condone non breathing plastic, but in this case it seemed to work. :dunno:
We did the same thing when I went moose hunting in 04. My theory is hang it in a place(off the ground) were air can circulate around it in a well shaded place. During Bow season (in the lower 48) we gut/de-bone them on the spot regardless of distance to camp. I have lost one to many Elk/Deer do to inproper care of meat....Lessons learned on my part.
Post by: boneaddict on August 15, 2011, 08:02:45 PM
Post by: blackveltbowhunter on August 15, 2011, 08:28:34 PM
We aren't much for eating organs, but we take every bit of meat we can get. Only place you might be able to get another burger off our carcass would be on the neck right below the skull. We want to walk away feeling as though we've paid as much respect to the animal as we can. That means utilizing every tasty morsel.
The ravens hate us :chuckle:
:tup: :yeah: It baffles me when I hear about someone leaving, rib, neck, and tenderloins or not stripping bones as clean as possible. Apparently they dont like venison enough.
Post by: Elkrunner on August 15, 2011, 09:12:54 PM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 15, 2011, 09:21:17 PM
Post by: RadSav on August 16, 2011, 01:33:36 AM
Soo...once you guys get it back to camp in the early season are you packing it in coolers on ice? Or are you hauling some serious booty to a meat locker? I have yet to get an elk in the early season but I have been studying all the traing materials to debone or quarter. I hope to be able to test it out this year. I just do not know what I am going to do with the meat when I get it back to camp. I did buy a 162 quart marine cooler that I was thinking of packing the meat in with some blocks of ice. In the late season, I typically hang it in a tree. Anyone's thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
Coolers can be great, but a lot of meat has been ruined by coolers too. That's a good one you've got there I used one for years. If you are staying up at camp for a few days after one is in the game bag be sure to hang the quarters at night. Even if the temps seem a little warm. You want the blood to drain and you want air to circulate. If there is a lot of blood shot you want to trim some each day to make sure the blood is draining. If the days are warm throw the game bags in the cooler each morning with ice underneath and on top. Next evening hang again and repeat.
To keep the meat dryer during extended time in the cooler I like to completely fill the big cooler with frozen plastic Pepsi bottles before I leave for camp. 162 quart cooler will hold a lot of bottles. With that much ice they will stay frozen for 10 days easy in my Yeti. At least five days in the Igloo Marine. The bottles will elevate your meat above all the watery blood in the bottom which is good. The bottles will sweat a bit as they thaw, but it is still much better than all the wet slush you would get from bags of crushed. If you have no other choice than bags leave the plug out enough to drain all day and place rocks in the bottom to keep the meat elevated out of the water.
If we are going to be staying away from home for an extended period we make sure we have a back up butcher close by that will allow us to hang only. Getting tougher to find them these days, but it's nice to be done with it and not worry until everyone in camp has had a chance to fill their tag.
Larry D. Jones used to have a nice video on field care. He spent a good bit of time on this topic. He looks goofy and talks funny, but heck - so do I. It was very informative. Not sure what the new guys are calling it or if they still do, but the new company name is Point Blank Hunting Calls.
Post by: Miles on August 16, 2011, 03:59:46 AM
During Bow season (in the lower 48) we gut/de-bone them on the spot regardless of distance to camp. I have lost one to many Elk/Deer do to inproper care of meat....Lessons learned on my part.
Just curious. Why are you even bothering to gut the animal if you are de-boning it right there on the spot? Seems like wasted time to me, that's why I'm asking.
Post by: Swannytheswan on August 16, 2011, 04:30:55 AM
http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/magazine/meatcare.htm (http://www.outdoorsdirectory.com/magazine/meatcare.htm)
Post by: boneaddict on August 16, 2011, 04:49:41 AM
I've tried the gutless method Miles. I certainly do not have it mastered. I think its easier to gut, and then go from there especially with tenderloins involved.
Post by: Miles on August 16, 2011, 05:09:25 AM
I cut up my own meat elkrunner so I head for home as soon as I have it loaded. Camp time is done. There has been more than one camp I think I got the stink eye from Idabooner because we had to go early. LOL
I've tried the gutless method Miles. I certainly do not have it mastered. I think its easier to gut, and then go from there especially with tenderloins involved.
I have used the gutless method for the past few years and actually prefer it now. I just start at the back of the neck with the gut-hook and zip right down to the tail (following the spine), then pull the hide off that one side and get all the meat, flip and repeat. I get at the tenderloins by making a small incision right behind the last rib and pulling them out. It may take a minute to get them out but isn't all that bad. It's easier if you have a second person there to hold it apart so you can see in there and get at it.
I just think the important part is getting the hide off (#1), then once you have the hide off the meat is right there. If I was in a position to drag an animal out and the temps were cool enough (snow) then I would just gut it and go.
Post by: boneaddict on August 16, 2011, 06:03:15 AM
Post by: BOWHUNTER45 on August 16, 2011, 07:14:17 AM
Post by: h2ofowlr on August 16, 2011, 07:52:08 AM
Post by: Recurve-Elk on August 16, 2011, 08:09:19 AM
We do this because one year we got a lot of waste due to bone spoiled meat.
Post by: HOYT6.0 on August 16, 2011, 10:09:16 AM
During Bow season (in the lower 48) we gut/de-bone them on the spot regardless of distance to camp. I have lost one to many Elk/Deer do to inproper care of meat....Lessons learned on my part.
Just curious. Why are you even bothering to gut the animal if you are de-boning it right there on the spot? Seems like wasted time to me, that's why I'm asking.
I gut them because its easier to get to the back straps and rib meat. When I de bone, the only thing left is a gut pile and bones. Literally. :tup:
Post by: et1702 on August 16, 2011, 02:27:08 PM
Mmmm...just thinking about backstrap over the coals in camp!
Post by: HUNTINCOUPLE on August 16, 2011, 06:11:16 PM
Idaho 6x6 satalite bull
304lbs with bone
264lbs without
this was quarters not including ribs and backbone
idaho 5x5 raghorn
Four leg bones 28lbs
Idaho Spike Bull
190 with bone
140 without
This also quarters not including ribs and backbone
Greenwater 4x4 bull
rear w/ bone 80lbs
front 65lbs w/ bone
When we started weighing stuff we left all bone in the woods!!!
Post by: Wiley on August 17, 2011, 06:32:06 AM
Post by: Elkrunner on August 17, 2011, 07:12:15 AM
Post by: high country on August 17, 2011, 07:38:40 AM
A hunting buddy of mine gave me a video to watch last night and field care and quartering a moose. This video is from the state of Alaska fish and wildlife. I was watching it and they recomend that you spray your meat with a citric acid solution. Has anyone done this?
I have, also I mixed tabasco sauce in an effort to keep the bees and flies off. it seemed to work fairly well. I also tried tags bags. they are the answer to flies, but you need to have enough to swap out as they don't wick as well as cotton. I have never had meat hanging for 2 weeks at 65* though.
Post by: Elkhound on August 17, 2011, 01:34:14 PM
A hunting buddy of mine gave me a video to watch last night and field care and quartering a moose. This video is from the state of Alaska fish and wildlife. I was watching it and they recommend that you spray your meat with a citric acid solution. Has anyone done this?
I haven't done this, but I also have been told by a few people to wipe the meat down with white vinegar when in the heat. Has anyone tried the vinegar route? This is my first season of archery and will be doing a back-pack hunt and want to do what's best to make sure the meat is good!
Post by: RadSav on August 17, 2011, 02:26:02 PM
Never tried citric acid or Tabasco solutions. I did try pepper when an old geezer told me it was the answer to blow flys. Didn't work for nothin'. Had a bear in camp that night - I think it was the 250# of peppered jerky he was after.
Post by: halflife65 on August 17, 2011, 05:47:10 PM
Post by: Elkrunner on August 18, 2011, 06:47:48 AM
The vinegar is to fight bacteria. Not a bad idea if you have a gut shot animal. Just a little safety precaution. If you do happen to find out you've gotton some bone sour apply the vinegar to the area after you trim. Should stop it from spreading. At least that's the word from my old butcher.I have heard that the pepper treatment is an old wise tale.
Never tried citric acid or Tabasco solutions. I did try pepper when an old geezer told me it was the answer to blow flys. Didn't work for nothin'. Had a bear in camp that night - I think it was the 250# of peppered jerky he was after.
Post by: Elkrunner on August 18, 2011, 06:49:35 AM
As for the vinegar, an old timer that I hunted with let me and my buddy use his garage to lop up a couple of bulls that we had gotten. Lots of work (2 bulls), so he and his wife came out and helped to cut and wrap and he had a whole process that he used. It was a Nov hunt so no worries about spoilage and we were careful to keep clean but he still insisted that we wipe it down with vinegar before wrapping to make sure that there was no bacteria on the meat. First and last time I've done that but it certainly didn't hurt anything. And I REALLY appreciated his help.
did it make it taste any different? When I was in college, I supervised a Wendy's. The hamburgers were packed with some type of vinegar smelling solution. When you opened it up, you could smell it.
Post by: RadSav on August 19, 2011, 01:21:53 AM
I suppose it's a good thing that Wendy's takes the precaution. But Oooowe :o not sure a Baconator is sounding as tasty to me as it was about 30 seconds ago.
Post by: Skyvalhunter on August 19, 2011, 05:39:12 AM
Post by: halflife65 on August 22, 2011, 04:15:26 PM
As for the vinegar, an old timer that I hunted with let me and my buddy use his garage to lop up a couple of bulls that we had gotten. Lots of work (2 bulls), so he and his wife came out and helped to cut and wrap and he had a whole process that he used. It was a Nov hunt so no worries about spoilage and we were careful to keep clean but he still insisted that we wipe it down with vinegar before wrapping to make sure that there was no bacteria on the meat. First and last time I've done that but it certainly didn't hurt anything. And I REALLY appreciated his help.
did it make it taste any different? When I was in college, I supervised a Wendy's. The hamburgers were packed with some type of vinegar smelling solution. When you opened it up, you could smell it.
No difference at all. Couldn't smell it or taste it after thawing and opening a package.
Post by: brianmtsinc on August 25, 2011, 07:27:46 AM
...it was worth a try. :chuckle:
Gonna try the gutless method this year. I hope the learning curve is not that big :dunno:
Post by: RadSav on August 25, 2011, 02:03:58 PM
We tried the black pepper before and is was usless. Infact even harmfull because my helpers kept sneezing :bash:
...it was worth a try. :chuckle:
Gonna try the gutless method this year. I hope the learning curve is not that big :dunno:
You should learn quick on the gutless method. Just make sure you work the hams first so you can get to the tenderloins before too much bloating makes it more difficult to avoid cutting the gut. Sure is nice not to be slipping around in blood and gunk. And, if this hot weather continues it sure keeps the bees down to a manageable level.
Post by: brianmtsinc on August 25, 2011, 02:27:26 PM
I have been wanting to try it for a few years now, but my last couple of elk were pretty easy to get out, so we gutted them and took them whole. I don't think that will be the case this year as we are planning on heading back a few miles from any open road.
I CAN'T WAIT!!!! 12 DAYS LEFT!!
Post by: Elkrunner on August 29, 2011, 02:26:30 PM
Post by: RadSav on August 29, 2011, 02:36:51 PM
Thanks for the pointer Rad! I will do that.
I have been wanting to try it for a few years now, but my last couple of elk were pretty easy to get out, so we gutted them and took them whole. I don't think that will be the case this year as we are planning on heading back a few miles from any open road.
I CAN'T WAIT!!!! 12 DAYS LEFT!!
That's been the case for us too. My brother gave me half a mile of mule tape for a Christmas present a few years back :tup:. If they are within sight of the road and temps are not too high we've been dragging them to the road after gutting and then boning in the cooler or back at camp. Though we hunt only a half hour from the shop/cooler.
Post by: Instinct on August 29, 2011, 03:09:19 PM
Post by: kalamasasquatch on August 29, 2011, 04:49:17 PM
Post by: RadSav on August 29, 2011, 07:46:06 PM
Post by: Battle Ready on August 29, 2011, 08:56:56 PM
Post by: Alan K on August 29, 2011, 09:12:50 PM
Post by: rebal69972 on August 29, 2011, 09:38:08 PM
Post by: Elkrunner on August 29, 2011, 09:55:01 PM