Post by: wastickslinger on June 24, 2008, 12:59:42 PM
Post by: robodad on June 24, 2008, 01:05:02 PM
Love to see mother nature in it's rawest form.
Excellent !! :tup:
Post by: Intruder on June 24, 2008, 01:35:50 PM
Actually raptors have virtually no impact on game bird populations... cats, skunks, etc do significantly more damage.
Post by: saylean on June 24, 2008, 01:58:37 PM
Post by: MuleySniper on June 24, 2008, 02:44:31 PM
MS
Post by: tlbradford on June 24, 2008, 03:00:45 PM
Post by: DOUBLELUNG on June 24, 2008, 03:25:30 PM
Actually raptors have virtually no impact on game bird populations... cats, skunks, etc do significantly more damage.
Can't agree with the quote, though for most game birds, there is little predation impact on populations IF there is sufficient habitat quality and quantity. Where either is lacking, as is the case with much of our upland bird habitat, the theory of compensatory mortality may not apply. That is true of harvest by two-legged terrestrial hunters too.
Great pics of a Cooper's hawk. Female based on the size, relative to the quail; nearly a 2-year old (adult plumage, eye still brown, turns red third year of life).
Post by: boneaddict on June 24, 2008, 04:45:27 PM
Neat pictures.
Post by: Intruder on June 25, 2008, 09:35:37 AM
I disagree Intruder.
I'm going off what I was told by a biologist who worked upland bird management in the Eastern half of South Dakota. I don't remember the specifics but based on studies done by SD and I think Delta Waterfowl they didn't show raptors as being a significant impact on game birds. They don't generally kill entire clutches... they tend to be more opportunistic and take single birds when available. According to him the biggest threats come from things like ferrel/barn cats, skunks, raccoons, yotes and foxes since they target nests, eggs, and newly hatched chicks.
I wouldn't disagree with any of you on that a raptor can do a number on a whole covey, especially under the right circumstances. I think his point was more that on a large scale if a certain bird's hatch survival rate is X%, the presence of raptors doesn't push it below that rate. In other words in the grand scheme of things they are really small potatoes compared to other factors.
Doublelung's assertion about quantity and "quality" of habit is spot on. Everything this guy in SD told me as well as everything I've heard/read/etc. supports this. The whole quantity thing is pretty obvious but the quality factor is often overlooked. When you have both things are good.
Post by: boneaddict on June 25, 2008, 05:07:31 PM
Post by: Intruder on June 26, 2008, 08:49:34 AM
You're point about bottlenecks was actually something we did discuss. I had asked him about pheasant production in E. Wash. During our discussion he asked me about the cover/habitat around here. He used the exact word.... bottleneck to describe how a predator can work a covey. He also talked about narrow strips of cover being easy for a nest robber to find eggs.
Sorry WASTICKSLINGER :jacked: Good discussion though.
Post by: boneaddict on June 26, 2008, 08:57:14 AM
Post by: Intruder on June 26, 2008, 09:25:10 AM
Starlings will even get upland nests, so I've heard.... not sure if it's true.
Post by: couesbitten on June 26, 2008, 01:57:40 PM
Post by: Intruder on June 26, 2008, 02:30:40 PM
I'm going to have to disagree also Intruder. Judging by the number of quail that I see in residential areas, their numbers are never going to be threatend, and there are lots of cats running around in most neighborhoods. Scott
Not trying to be a smartass but I'm not sure an anecdotal observation regarding quail density in a urban environment is a fair comparison. I hear what you're saying but the whole idea I was trying to relay was that there were actual scientific studies that show relative impact of the various predators on game birds. I didn't want to imply that raptors never kill game birds, only that other factors have a much greater impact when you look at things on a large scale. There will certainly be exceptions when you start to narrow down the scale.